Do Colleges Need to Be Need Blind?

Actually, with respect to most of the private schools that give the best financial aid, having divorced parents is disadvantageous for getting financial aid, since they require the financial information from both parents.

Meanwhile, most schools do not have good financial aid, so having more money is better. The almost-free need-based rides for students from lower income families are limited to those who can get into the few schools with the best financial aid, which are generally highly selective and do not admit many students from lower income families (usually under 25% Pell grant students).

Need-based financial aid offers at even the schools with the best financial aid typically assume that the student will contribute several thousand dollars from some combination of work earnings and/or federal direct loans.

This is mostly not true unless parents remarried and new spouses have income. You can try Princeton NPC that used to be able to account for divorced parents.

Many divorced parents are uncooperative, so getting them to file financial aid forms is difficult (they may want to hide their finances from each other).

Also, even in the absence of continuing rancor, maintaining separate households typically costs more than sharing a single household, and they will have spent some of their money (that could have gone to kids’ college costs) on lawyer fees and other expenses of divorce.

Tufts will factor in SES bias when evaluating test scores, academic coursework and EC’s, but several years ago they they discovered that the graduation rate among URMs was lower than non-URMs. They implemented summer “bridge” programs to ensure that students who are admitted, but didn’t have the privilege of attending a high school with a rigorous curriculum can still be successful. The programs appear to be working.

http://engineering.tufts.edu/best/
http://as.tufts.edu/BLAST/

Tufts also considers work experience and community service as important in the admissions decision.

Tufts pioneered an admissions methodology based on psychological theories of intelligence that do not appear to be as biased by SES. At the time, it was quite controversial. Harvard thought it was BS and Stanford thought that it could have merit.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/09/28/sternberg

Dartmouth just lured away Tufts’ Director of Admissions to an Assistant Provost role, so it will be interesting to see if admissions policies change at the two schools. Tufts’ new Director of Admissions is a promotion from within and she is African American.

Tufts spent many years trying to build the endowment to the point it could become need blind. It was actually need blind for one year. Then the '07/ '08 financial crisis hit and the need blind policy could no longer be supported. It does not appear to be coming back anytime soon. They claim that as implemented it only impacts a small percentage of decisions. It is not clear which economic band within the financial aid spectrum is actually impacted the most, but I suspect that it is not the lowest band.

There are many universities in the U.S. Each establishes its own mission, curriculum, and financial aids and scholarship policy. If you agree that they have their right to do so in an independent way, then you much accept that there would be variations in mission, in curriculum, and in financial aids and scholarship policy. If so, by construction, there must be “gap” in mission, in curriculum, and in financial aids and scholarship policy.

Now, if “we need to close the gap between students generously financially supported and those from middle/upper middle class families who are expected to pay up to 70K per child per year,” the solution will be either (1) we deny each university’s fundamental right to determine its financial aids and scholarship policy (maybe the next thing will be its mission and curriculum), or (2) to have someone else to close the gap, and in this case most likely the government; i.e., the use of other tax payers’ (including poor people who cannot afford to send their kids to a university) money to help middle/upper middle class families who are expected to pay up to 70K per child per year. Which solution would you choose? For me, the answer is neither.

Erin’s Dad:

even some supposed need-blind privates will offer a plus factor for ‘low ec’ kids (as Williams calls them).

But of the publics, they tend to be the more competitive ones, and have holistic admissions. (Yes, most publics admit solely on numbers – GPA+Test scores.)

Colleges don’t need to be need-blind, in my opinion, to offer opportunities for low-income students. In fact, being need-blind might hinder their efforts to be inclusive, whereas being need-aware might help, depending on how they use it.

First of all, need-blind admissions policies don’t actually necessarily increase access to low-income kids. The assumption is that admissions officers don’t know your socioeconomic status because they’re not looking at your financial aid forms, but that’s poppycock. They can tell from other things. Higher-income students have access to all of the “holistic admissions criteria” boosting activities that lower-income students don’t. They go to the best high schools, which offer AP classes, honors classes, IB programs and rigorous courseloads. Their high schools have college counselors that have reasonable student to counselor ratios and that are experienced in helping students gain admission to top schools. Their parents went to elite colleges.

For example, only about 10% of the nation’s K-12 students attend private schools, and 80% of those schools are religious. However, if you look at the class profiles of top schools that disclose this information, private school kids (and particularly non-religious private schools, which tend to be the top-ranked ones) are overrepresented. 30% of Dartmouth’s class of 2020 comes from private schools, and only 13% of those schools are religious. 41% of Yale’s incoming class comes from private schools, but only 8% of them are religious schools. 40% of Princeton’s incoming class also comes from private schools, and only 14% are religious. A non-religious private school is a really good indicator of being at least upper-middle-class without even seeing the financial aid form. That’s not even counting high-ranked public schools in high-income neighborhoods. Admissions officers know what those high schools are.

Another thing is legacy status: applicants who are legacies have a really, really high chance of being from a higher-income home. Yale has almost the same percentage of legacy students (13%) as they have first-generation students (15%), when there are waaaaay more first-generation college students in the country than children of Yale graduates. There are more Yale and Princeton legacies in their incoming classes than there are African American or Latino students.

The end result? 40-50% of almost every elite university’s incoming class is full pay. And “full pay” at these schools usually is an income of $180,000 or more, so that means there’s an even larger proportion of families that are still making good money and just getting a bit of financial aid (maybe like $150K or more). Is that coincidental? Nah. They’re simply using other indicators of wealth. Or, more likely, the other indicators of wealth - the good private and public schools, the full IB programs, the ‘non-traditional’ sports like squash and lacrosse and crew, the national participation in things like debate and theater, the summer programs in foreign countries or at expensive universities - are exactly the kinds of things that win students admission to elite schools. They never even need to look at your financial aid form; it’s still obvious.

But think about it - if colleges were need-aware when they did admissions, they could decide to balance their class in ways that make it possible for them to support their neediest students with financial aid. If you’re going to admit students who are going to need full coverage of their cost of attendance, you also have to admit some students who can afford to pay the entire thing. (I know most elite schools actually have lots of streams of revenue - investments of their endowment, grants, contracts, et al. - but tuition is still a driver.)

They could also deliberately choose to admit some really low-income students who they know have lower test scores, fewer IB and AP classes, less participation in extracurriculars (either because they don’t exist at their school or because these students have to work), no summer programs, no volunteering in Guatamala - but who are otherwise obviously really good, strong, and resilient students who might succeed. If you’re need-blind, those students maybe just look like slackers. If you use the context of their socioeconomic status, you realize that they’re doing the best with what they have and would do the same thing at your elite school.

Honestly, I think most universities already do this anyway. It’s not a coincidence that elite schools consistently have classes that are 40-50% full-pay students.

Amherst College calls their policy “need-affirmative”. Still plenty of full pay students, but they claim being low income is actually a plus in admissions.

https://www.amherst.edu/amherst-story/magazine/issues/2011summer/nationalinterest

Perhaps, but Amherst’s students still skew towards wealthy backgrounds, since about 38% do not receive non-loan financial aid (i.e. able to full pay about $66,000 per year), and only about 23% receive Pell grants (i.e. from the lower half of the family income range).

Yes, @ucbalumnus , that’s what “Still plenty of full pay students” means.

Unless the school has infinite resources, they are not need blind. So no one is need blind.

Harvard may keep its individual admissions personnel “need blind” for purposes of reading the application files, but Harvard’s overall admissions program is highly and intentionally need-conscious by design.

With its many billions, Harvard is able to have 20% of its students attend for free, which is great. But even with all those billions, Harvard is still 35% full pay year in and year out. That’s a lot of money coming in and Harvard would not stay in business if its free/full pay ratio flipped from 20/35 to 35/20.

Accordingly Harvard designs (or you could say “rigs”) its admissions policies so it can hit its 20/35 ratio year after year. Having sky high selectivity is the biggest factor in skewing student SES to where it needs to be. Legacy admissions helps too. Having a big sports program also helps. Most Ivy League sports trend upper SES. There’s multiple other dials that Harvard can and does turn in order to make budget.

Harvard has a budget and they hit budget every year. That’s not an accident.

Other ways to tip the pool toward wealth, without having to be need-aware for individual application reading are listed in reply #2.

“That’s a lot of money coming in and Harvard would not stay in business if its free/full pay ratio flipped from 20/35 to 35/20.”
With a 32B endowment Harvard could well withstand flipping the ratio.

Yup. I’m also curious what this means:

“Most Ivy League sports trend upper SES.”

Sports like fencing, crew, and lacrosse are not commonly found in inner city school systems.

Perhaps, but these kinds of sports do not make up “most” of the intercollegiate sports found at Ivy League schools.

^ I think they’re not far off:
http://www.gocrimson.com/landing/index
Crew, fencing, golf, lacrosse, sailing, skiing, squash, water polo. Once you take out baseball, basketball and football it’s decidedly high SES.

I’ll tell you what: let’s figure out which sports are “upper SES” and which are not. Then we can have a more objective discussion.

Figure skating. I think at a competitive level, it’s costly.

“Perhaps, but these kinds of sports do not make up “most” of the intercollegiate sports found at Ivy League schools.”

Totally and completely incorrect.

Other than football and soccer (about 1/3 AA each), pretty much every sport in the Ivy League trends strongly to suburban and white. Which will tend to trend upper SES. Same will go for the NESCAC type of liberal arts colleges.

The Boston Globe looked at Harvard’s teams back in 2007.

Of 19 Harvard men’s teams, 12 were all white – baseball, heavyweight crew, lightweight crew, golf, ice hockey, lacrosse, squash, swimming/diving, tennis, volleyball, sailing, skiing. Fencing, water polo, wrestling, track and basketball had 3 AAs or less.

I know race is not an exact equivalent for SES, but you get the picture.

“Once you take out baseball, basketball and football it’s decidedly high SES.”

Actually, college baseball today is perhaps the single whitest college sport there is. Like many other youth sports, it is heavily influenced by the club team industrial complex. Surpisingly, college baseball today may be even less diverse than lacrosse and ice hockey.