<p>My son read my responses and said that I was coming across a little harsh. Ha. One of the problems with “posts” is the voice inflections, gestures, and facial expressions can’t be expressed, which can lead to a “harsh” post or “flame wars”. Most of the time I speak my sarcasm with a smile and a laugh. If I have offended, I apologize. I meant everything I said, but none was said in anger or with vitriol (even toward you Sally - oops - did it again)</p>
<p>I think I would like your son. 
Mine makes me a better person too.</p>
<p>Glad its resolved. :)</p>
<p>PCCgrad,</p>
<p>I appreciate your gracious apology.</p>
<p>Creekland,</p>
<p>In my Christian circles, I have found that students graduating from Christian colleges can find jobs. Wow, that would be odd if they couldn’t. I’m glad this country hasn’t gone that far out of balance (yet). </p>
<p>Our pastor’s son graduated from Wheaton and is currently attending med school in Illinois (I am so bad with remembering the name of it ). He even kind of messed up grade wise during college, though he worked at U of Chicago afterwards, but still had to go through some tough times before being accepted. He’s an incredibly smart and compassionate young man (dad and mom graduated from Princeton) and I think he’ll make an excellent doctor.</p>
<p>We know people working in the military in leadership positions who graduated from Christian colleges. We know engineers who went to Christian colleges.</p>
<p>I think we simply can’t generalize and lump all “Christian” colleges in one pile and certainly, the idea that Christians aren’t taught to think is, well, amusing.</p>
<p>My son was a very conservative Christian homeschooler who thinks very well on his feet (and has many good conversations with atheists on campus) and is thriving at MIT. It wasn’t that a Christian college wasn’t “good enough”; it’s that he did too much college math and physics during high school and he would have run out of classes to take by freshman year. Even at MIT, he’ll be into grad classes by sophomore or junior year.</p>
<p>If there’s one complaint I have of Christian (and I am speaking of conservative Protestant colleges) colleges is that, for advanced students, they are weak in the sciences.</p>
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<p>I agree, but we haven’t found any difference in their secular counterparts (same level of incoming freshman stats and similar numbers of students). Some students just want/need higher and those don’t really exist for Protestants. For anyone a step (or more) lower, there are plentiful options - just as there are in secular schools. Either will do just fine toward getting jobs of all sorts from office jobs to med/grad schools. Oldest is a junior at such a college. Seniors who graduated are finding employment (some with multiple offers) at the same rate as their secular counterparts and most aren’t heading into Christian organizations. If employers were to discriminate solely based upon religion (as some on here imply they do), I imagine there could be some court cases. It’s extremely illegal. If the discrimination is based upon accreditation, that’s different as that isn’t just “religion.” Accreditation is a standard that many care about. </p>
<p>I might be in the totally wrong circles (indeed, I might be), but I’ve never heard of anyone being told they would go to h…l if they went to a secular college. Many students from the county Christian school head off to state schools (our local newspaper lists college kudos).</p>
<p>We are in the realm of very conservative Mennonite and near Amish communities. I could possibly see it there (but I don’t think they’d go that far to say one will go to h…l). Those groups only do school through 8th grade (their own schools), so they’re totally different. I’ll admit to being glad I wasn’t born into one of those types of families (or other very conservative religion - or pre 1900’s life) as I’d likely have been stoned by the age of three…</p>
<p>In the meantime, more state testing in school today (good thing we don’t also do APs). I may be on a bit during parts of the day… They allow 2 1/2 - 3 hours for 90 minute tests… (2 each day on testing days).</p>
<p>But I digress.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, my high school seemed to be an odd mix of Christian Reformed and Southern Baptist. Most of the teachers were from Calvin College. The school was (and is) respected for its academics, which is why my parents sent me there. We had chapel several times a week, which is when most of the preaching took place. They made it very clear that we should avoid all temptations of the secular world. They would play rock music records backwards and tell us that the scratchy sound we heard was a hidden message saying “Satan is lord.” There was a whole lot of talk about sin and salvation, but of course there were the cliched incidences of teachers having relationships with students and other things that made some of us suspicious. Where I ran into the most challenges was in class, as a bright, inquisitive teenager who wasn’t satisfied with some of the explanations offered on subjects like creation versus evolution. I did love my English teacher and advanced math teacher…they were fantastic.</p>
<p>Nowadays, in the intensely competitive academic environment we live in, the school has backed off on the Christian-college-only message and has a long list of graduates who have gone on to many of the nation’s top universities. (The school attracts some very affluent, high-achieving families who might not send their children otherwise.)</p>
<p>Back to the employment issue…in general, employers don’t know small colleges unless they are in the local area. It doesn’t matter if it is Williams or Samford. But if the college has attracted a lot of press due to a highly politicized or “extremist” position on issues (either through one of its leaders or activities on campus that the outside world hears about), there might be greater awareness and it might not always be positive. Liberty University is probably the most obvious example. I think it comes down to how the individual presents him- or herself. If people are afraid of being proselytized or having to deal with what some might consider extreme political views, they might have concerns. I work with someone who attended Hope College, and he kind of goes to the other extreme–he is almost apologetic about his alma mater. He is also an openly gay man, so it’s probably complicated for him.</p>
<p>^^^ Thanks for the explanation, Sally. Your history really is a world I know little about (slight bits of news here and there, but that’s it).</p>
<p>I actually thought Calvin was one of the “evolution” schools (and always had been). I also thought Hope was open to homosexual students… BUT, those schools don’t attract many from here, so my thoughts are just brain sludge from somewhere. Oldest applied to, and was accepted at, Calvin, but since he’s not a science kid, I didn’t worry about specific teaching. We cared about business “stuff.”</p>
<p>My whole family has always been public school attendees (including college), so it’s only been with oldest’s interest in doing something different that we started to branch out in our searches. Middle gained from our experience. Youngest did too. He’s still debating whether he wants Christian (Palm Beach Atlantic is his internet Christian favorite right now) or a “mix” (Eckerd is also right up there at the top and I’m told they’re “sort of” Christian) or secular (U Miami - but that will likely be a reach for him). After visiting in the fall he’ll have a better feel - then we’ll see how the finances and acceptances come into play. He could also add more schools in the meantime.</p>
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<p>I agree 100% with small colleges - which is why youngest is interested in FL schools. IME, even larger engineering schools are prone to having regional bias for new hires. (One will more likely get an interview around here if one is from Penn St or VA Tech.)</p>
<p>I would agree in theory with your thoughts about Liberty, but I just haven’t seen that happening with students from our school (or church) who graduate from there. They’ve done as well in the intern/job/grad school areas as students who pick secular schools at the same level. It’s not a school any of my guys have been interested in, but it’s also not a school I’d caution against for the right fit. Cons to the school include size, aesthetics, lower stats, and more rules, but not everyone considers those dealbreakers. Many love the school. All students I’ve talked with have enjoyed it.</p>
<p>kypdurron - my son saw your post about the FBI and CIA. He told me these guys were at PCC three times this year (his freshman year) looking for recruits. Evidently there is something about the conservative nature of BYU and PCC (Ha - a Mormon and a Baptist college with something in common ?) that appeals to them.</p>
<p>Creekland - you guys are just now doing your state testing ? Tennessee does theirs in mid to late April. I wish we did ours later. Some of the public school kids and teachers that I know tell me that once the state tests are finished, they do not cover any new material. Field trips, make-up work, and study halls are all they have for several weeks. Seems like a waste. I am sure not all schools in Tennessee do this, but some do. We graduate our seniors on Saturday - and AP Exams threw a wrench into scheduling of final tests for the Seniors (who packed my classroom with over 250 balloons, streamers, and anything else they could find for their “last day”).</p>
<p>Our last day/graduation is June 7th. The state testing window ends May 24th. We’re testing two days this week and two days next week. We continue to cover new material up to the last week of class. Finals tend to be the last week. It’s not at all based upon the state tests here.</p>
<p>The FBI and CIA recruited at my state school Alma mater too. ;)</p>
<p>Which goes to answer the original question: Do employers look down on Christian College grads ? In the case of the Federal Government (FBI and CIA), obviously not.</p>
<p>^^^ I agree. On this site I see bias (in some posts). IRL I don’t. It would be illegal and I don’t think most IRL want to go there. For the few who choose to discriminate (some can’t overcome human tendencies to want everyone to agree with them - or look like them - or whatever), there are probably as many biased pro as con ending up with a balance.</p>
<p>Hiring managers (and I am one in an aerospace consulting companies) may have concerns about hiring grads from very conservative christian colleges to the extent that the education they received may not have prepared them well for functioning in a secular and global environment. For example, how would a new HR employee counsel staff effectively if they only learned the Christian version? How would a science grad be perceived at conferences where creationism is definitely not considered mainstream? In some jobs (for example accounting) it would not matter.</p>
<p>Bangemoeder - Do not assume that those who graduate from a Christian College are ignorant of the opposing viewpoint. I am a Christian conservative but am very familiar with humanist philosophy. Education should include BOTH “versions”. One should know the arguments of the opposition and how to approach the issue. However, do not try to teach the “Christian” version in most secular schools. Tolerance of the opposing viewpoint tends to only go in one direction.</p>
<p>I do not think the workplace is the place to explain “opposing points of view” in matters of religion. If religious discussions take place at all (always a slippery slope), they should be neutral (explaining the significance of holidays, practices, rituals), or conciliatory in tone, as in: “We are all children of the same God”. </p>
<p>So going back to the original OP question about a potential bias of employers vis a vis graduates of Christian schools, my concern (initially thinking there is none, but still as a potential employer) is: “How prepared would a conservative university graduate be to counsel employees without bringing up the Bible, Jesus etc?”. Do Christian colleges offer relevant classes on how to address real problem with non believers in a non-religious context?. And again, this should be done without forcing the conservative Christian view on staff which is a no no.</p>
<p>I was not referring to opposing points of view on religion. Perhaps you could be a little more clear on what kind of situation you expect when you ask “how would a new HR employee counsel staff effectively if they only learned the Christian version.” There will always be bias to some degree as long as humans are involved.</p>
<p>I have a few thoughts about the OP’s question–some of this agrees with what others have already said. It seems to me that the answer divides into several different elements:
- Will employers think that the education received at a religious college is inferior just because the college is religious? For the most part, I don’t think so. Employers will rank colleges in terms of perceived education quality, and Harvard is going to rank higher than Liberty–but not really because of religion at Liberty. I think employers who know about Liberty will rank it along with secular universities with academically similar student bodies. But this refers to general quality, and needs to be distinguished from the second point:
- Will certain employers believe that graduates of religious colleges will have views on particular topics that may make them poor fits for the job? I think this will depend on the job. As noted above, this will probably not affect accounting, but it might affect a job relating to biology, or some social sciences. There may be some organizations that will assume that the applicant’s views will be contrary to the organization’s mission–but are graduates of Liberty or a conservative Catholic school likely to be applying for jobs at Planned Parenthood?
- Will individual hiring officials have negative views of religious schools? Probably, although some will have positive views. My gut feeling is that across all jobs, it’s probably more of a negative than a positive, just because so few hiring officials will have come from religious schools themselves–but this may vary by region.</p>
<p>So in sum, I think it’s something to think about, and it may matter more depending on what career you want to pursue, and the part of the country you’d like to live in.</p>
<p>Yes. I view it as a negative</p>
<p>Let me just add: whether an employer should view it as a negative isn’t really the OP’s question.</p>
<p>When I came across this website several week ago, I thought I had found a forum where one could provide information to potential students who were interested in a particular university. What I found was a outlet for those who want to attack an institution because they disagree with the approach. I joined a thread about my alma mater (PCC) and read post after post of misinformation, gossip, and outright lies. I attempted - as one with first-hand knowledge of PCC and its graduates - to challenge these posts. I found, however, that if one challenges the remark, they will be accused of being mean-spirited, un-Christian, or ignorant. When a remark was proven to be a complete falsehood (PCC prohibits tanning beds), the thread was shut down for “bickering”. Therefore, it is apparent that this forum is not interested in facts, first-hand information, or truth. With that in mind, I will take leave of this website. Please feel free to continue your bashing of PCC - (or me) - with no concern for the truth. I am confident that PCC will continue to grow - and God will continue to bless - in spite of your disdain.</p>