Long story short. Got caught cheating for sharing a notes on a OPEN NOTE TEST. Got Saturday school for 1 day, got the chance to retake the test. Didn’t get any suspension or serious punishment. Do I need to check yes for this question: Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at any educational institution you have attended from the 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in a disciplinary action? These actions could include, but are not limited to: probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from the institution.
IMO yes you should report your academic integrity violation (to the schools that ask this question) because you did receive a disciplinary action (Saturday school.)
In your answer explain the situation, take responsibility for your actions, and share what you learned from the mistake.
Which OP did not do in the original post. She seems to be under the mistaken belief that she was wrongly accused of cheating.
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Yes you should acknowledge IMHO because right or wrong, you were found responsible.
Ask your school counselor. They will advise you on apporpriate response. If it’s on your permanent record you should definitely report it. If not, they may advise against it. If it has been expunged from your record, then as far as your school is concerned it didn’t happen and there is no need to report it.
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Wow, I feel like you are being pretty harsh here. You’re reading a lot into the fact that OP capitalized two words. Maybe they were just explaining the situation to us…the anonymous readers from whom they are asking advice. Advising them to take responsibility for their actions (as another poster did) is great advice. I’m pretty sure chastising them anonymously won’t help them or anyone to rise to the challenge of facing their legitimate question.
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I would hope a school counselor does not advise any student to hide an academic integrity violation. It wouldn’t matter that it’s not on their permanent record…the student was caught cheating and the HS administered a punishment. And that’s exactly what the college’s question in the OP is asking for. If OP doesn’t honestly answer the question, they run the risk that a counselor or teacher writes about it in an LoR and/or a peer/a peer’s parent reports it to colleges where OP applies (which happens every day.)
Of course it matters.
The question is obviously referring to a serious infraction as described by their examples: “. . . probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion . . .” The incident described by this student doesn’t come remotely close to any of these. If, furthermore, the school doesn’t even note it on the permanent record, they clearly consider it to be a minor matter not worth mentioning. So, I don’t see that it needs to be mentioned in that case.
No one here knows the full circumstances of what happened. Nobody here knows the full extent to which instructions for the “open note” exam were explained to the students. For all we know, the fault lay with the teacher and that teacher is in trouble with his/her supervisor, and the school went ahead with a perfunctory action just to get the point across to the students. The point is that no one here knows what went on behind closed doors at the school.
IMO, we have no business advising this student on her question because we don’t have sufficient information. I think the best advice was @Bruno99’s suggestion that she ask her school counselor.
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I do think OP should speak with their counselor, that is always the first place to go for advice.
But, I disagree that this question is only asking for ‘serious’ infractions as it clearly states this school wants to know about any academic or behavioral misconduct that resulted in a disciplinary action, as happened in OP’s case. The question also states the list of possible disciplinary actions are ‘not limited’ to the examples as shown.
The school I work for asks this type of discipline question because we take any academic integrity violation seriously and would expect this be reported and explained by the student. If the student didn’t report it and we found out in another way, it would be difficult for an applicant to overcome that and be admitted. There are plenty of colleges that don’t ask this question so no worries for OP at those.
Lastly, I don’t really know what posters mean by something not being on one’s ‘permanent record.’ If talking about being on a student’s transcript, many states do not allow disciplinary actions to be shown on transcripts (for students who attend public schools.) That doesn’t mean students don’t have to report a disciplinary violation.
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BlockquoteLastly, I don’t really know what posters mean by something not being on one’s ‘permanent record.’
At our school the counselor submits a school report with the transcript. Major disciplinary actions are reported to colleges on the school report, minor ones are not. Disciplinary actions that are reported to colleges are what I would consider to be part of a student’s “permanent record”.
For example, at our school students may receive a demerit for minor things like being tardy, incorrect uniform, cell phone use, etc. and may receive multiple demerits for more serious things like being disrespectful. If a student accumulates a certain number of demerits in a semester it results in a disciplinary action which is usually, but not always, detention. That action is not reported on the school report and, IMO, does not need to be reported to colleges. I get that some posters here disagree, and that’s fine.
I suspect that one reasons so many schools no longer ask this question (my child is currently applying to 11 colleges and none ask this. My older child applied to 16 and I don’t remember any asking) is partly due to variations in how people interpret the question.
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Common app dropped the disciplinary actions 5-10 years ago because they found that certain groups and/or disadvantaged students receive a disproportionate share of disciplinary actions. Some colleges continue to ask these questions in the specific college’s question section.
IME I haven’t seen HS counselors, teachers, and/or admissions staff struggle with how they interpret these discipline questions.
Lastly, note also that many counselors do not complete the school report in the common app.
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Yeah I agree I’m sure different schools do things differently. I also didn’t suggest anyone struggles to complete these questions, but rather, that schools may have different policies about what to report. Just replying to your question about what I meant by permanent record.
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I understand, thx. The school report does not ask disciplinary questions either. For the vast majority of applicants who report disciplinary action, the only way we know is because the student answered yes to the questions in our battery of questions. I’ve not seen a counselor report an infraction on the school report (this is only my third year in the admissions side), but I have seen them write about it in their LoR.
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Personally I don’t find much ambiguity in this question. Not sure how one can misinterpret it.
Have you been found responsible?
Yes they have.
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That makes sense. Definitely ask the school counselor then.
FWIW my older child received a detention for disrespectful behavior after putting her head down in class one day while the class was watching a video. I have no problem with the punishment, even though I consider it pretty strict since she wasn’t sleeping and didn’t receive a warning before getting written up. Nor do I think that would have kept her out of college if it had been reported. But I would have been upset if the school reported this on her school report and my honest interpretation of the question would be to reply “no” if she had been asked whether she had received a disciplinary action. I just don’t think this counts. Yes, it’s my interpretation but that is genuinely what I believe.
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Totally understood that the dishonesty would likely result in a rejection. But, out of curiosity, how do you handle students who do honestly report disciplinary infractions? Say, for example, a student is caught cheating or plagiarizing by a teacher (i.e. academic dishonesty). If the student writes about it honestly and takes responsibility, is that viewed favorably or at least neutrally (vs. a student who makes excuses or who doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal)? Or is something like academic dishonesty also most likely to result in rejection (regardless of explanation) because how very seriously colleges take it?
But isn’t the reason for that precisely this situation: so that a minor infraction likely done out of immaturity doesn’t negatively affect their future (such as through college admissions)?
I agree with this. This is an issue to discuss with counselor. They have been through this many times before and know how the school has handled it in the past and what they recommend as the ethical response. They will not advise a student to be dishonest on an application, so I would take their advice as the right way to handle it.
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Great question.
It depends on the nature and severity of the violation, and I am certain it varies by college as well. Also, academic integrity violations are generally more concerning than behavioral. So any academic cheating is more concerning than getting caught vaping, for example. I expect there are colleges that deny a student who engaged in any type of academic cheating. On the behavioral side, being arrested for identity theft or attacking a teacher with a sharp weapon would be automatic denials (both real examples in apps I’ve read.) As always, context can be important as informed by a school counselor or teacher.
Lastly, if a student doesn’t report a violation and we found out some other way, as I said above, that generally would result in a denial. I can’t understate how many calls we receive from applicants’ peers/their parents regarding charges of another applicant lying on their app. My school investigates every single situation.
I don’t have any knowledge of why some states have these laws. It could be as you say. It could because some types of students receive a disproportionate share of disciplinary actions.
While I agree that students should always seek advice from their HS counselor, it’s important to remember that the majority of HS students don’t have access to adequate counseling and most don’t have a dedicated college counselor.
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