Do my extracurricular need to be with the school?

Applying to College
42

This is not my experience as a college counselor, nor as an admissions reader.

Many students don’t participate in HS based activities to a large degree, and many hold down a job as OP does. HS based ECs are not better, nor preferred, as compared to external ECs.

Students should participate in ECs they enjoy, and AOs know many HS students want to and/or must have paid jobs. External ECs absolutely demonstrate one’s involvement and impact in their community.

There are also many students who don’t have 10 activities in the common app (10 activities are NOT ‘required’) and that is often not an issue. At all.

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43

It really seems all over the map to me at our feederish HS. Like the really serious performing arts kids can’t do most of that at school. The similarly serious athletes might have one season, but then they have to do clubs and camps and such.

But then there are the kids who seem to be all over everything at school, and even their competitions and such are mostly through school, like the debater types who also do student government, and a sport or two, and music, and . . . .

I’ll admit I have never tried to officially track who is getting admitted where exactly, but it seems to me like it is a mix at every level of selectivity. Obviously if you end up a recruited athlete that is one type (and we get Ivy and NESCAC and UAA and so on recruits), and then it feels like there is something similar with the really top performing artists. Like I have mentioned one of our Yale kids is an extremely accomplished musician, and a good but not great student. We also had a Harvard lacrosse recruit, and so on.

But then another Yale kid is a great student, and also seemed to do everything at school, including two varsity sports (one captain), debate with a state championship and national placements, student government, multiple tutor positions, jazz band . . . .

I don’t know, I just don’t see a specific formula.

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44

“Praying on your downfall?” That’s a pretty serious accusation. You may be disappointed by the supports you are getting, but paranoid, conspiratorial thinking will not help you rescue the remainder of your high school experience. Assume positive intent, forgive honest mistakes, and help others help you by following the advice you are getting here. You will not achieve your aspirations without some corrective steps on your end. Good luck.

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45

My thoughts on your entire situation is that it’s pretty daunting - while your extracurriculars certainly are not limited to whatever you do in school, your relationship with your counselor and teachers (who will write your LORs for your application) is equally as important.

What frustrates me is my counselor keeps telling me I do nothing outside of studying, but I have informed her that I probably do more extracurriculars than studying.

All the other students seem to have a positive interaction with the counselor except me, maybe i’m an outlier

I may just be regurgitating (and probably am) what everyone is saying, but you need to sit down and have a serious talk with your Counselor to set the record straight about what you do.

cause shes always rambling about how I contribute nothing to school.

Sitting down with your counselor and talking about what you do, in writing, may help to change this perspective. If your counselor is made aware of what you do around school, and how you contribute to other communities (not just the school community), they may begin to see you in a better light.

Another piece of advice, try to get more involved on campus. I understand that you dislike your high school, but if your activity within the school is the only criterion to which they judge you, getting involved (even if a bit) at the school will have a positive impact.

I certainly understand your feelings about this - they don’t seem to comprehend or don’t take in how you impact lives outside of your school. However, if you want to make progress in setting the record straight, talk to them. Starting that dialogue is certainly a daunting task yet a vital one where you can make your thoughts heard and hear theirs. Perhaps through this dialogue, you’ll come to understand the rationale behind their thinking, and they’ll begin to understand yours. Through that, you two can hopefully reach a mutual understanding and potential solutions that improve their impression of the OP.

Certainly, life doesn’t always deal you the best cards, but it’s how you make use of these cards that count - how you can take the situation you have and turn it into something positive.

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46

I will next semester cause school is over. I have told her so many times I do these extracurriculars and she is always rambling about i do nothing outside of school and contribute nothing to it except grades. I appreciate your input though

47

Yea that isn’t true at all I was just frustrated. The counselors just don’t seem to help though but for the teachers they are great. I just realized that they try to help you in life instead of just getting into a college (ex. you dont always get what you want such as rounding grades even if you are .1 off the A)

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48

Well, the letter didn’t change. As I recall, you had an A-. Breathe. Don’t spiral. Nice that you have some authority figures in school whom you seem to trust.

49

Hi @allenski

It sounds like you are frustrated with several things out of your control. Figure out the things you can control moving forward and find ways to ease the pain of some of these issues with the counselor as they will be needed for some key points.

First the great news - you do not need ECs tied to your school. You do need to be able to link together key functions in your life that demonstrate you will be a positive citizen in your college community - IF you are applying to Top 30 colleges or merit scholarships at small privates or flagship public’s. For some perspective that will help you I think, 90% of the thousands of colleges are not going to look that hard at ECs or LORs. They will note if the counselor says something vaguely hinting at hating school or not engaged at all, so to help change their outlook, you may have to tweak your outlook.

There is always going to be someone that just does not get you, your sense of humor, your world view, whatever it is, but you sometimes need to find a way to navigate the world and figure out how to get them to help you if they are in a position such as the school counselor.

I work in a school where the counselor has much more than 100 students. There are times when someone misses a deadline for a LOR or transcript for a camp or something else. They could have just been swamped and missed it. How much notice did you give them? Were you eligible for the camp? Was it competitive and perhaps the school had already nominated other students? Did they not know what to write? (honestly- I have looked at a blank LOR template and not been able to come up with a single way a student is involved on or off campus. I usually go find them and talk to their teachers to come up with something.)Did they offer other suggestions for camps when they realized they had missed the deadline?

For your college LORs, make sure you provide the teachers and counselors with a copy of your resume and a summary of your major, colleges you are applying to and why they are of interest. That will help with the LOR writing. Your job and side hustles are all perfect for what they can write about, but they need to know about them. That is in your control.

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50

Most counselors aren’t going to make or break college. Most don’t even know you.

Again, make a resume/brag sheet - don’t just speak to her.

You might even email her one soon - and note what you’ll be doing this summer in the email.

Mr./Ms. So and So,

I wanted to provide you a resume / summary of my accomplishments thus far ahead of Senior year. Additionally, this summer I will be continuing my work at Home Depot and doing ______.

I look forward to next year and working through the college application process.

I hope you have a great summer.

Allenski

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51

Decide what are you interested in outside of school and work that into volunteering, tutoring etc.
Don’t worry about quantity of EC’s. Try to find something that you can show leadership or mentoring or is something that is meaningful to you
Quality over quantity
Some examples outside of school my kids did were
Coaching Youth Soccer at local city rec league
Volunteering at church
Tutoring at middle school they went to

For in school EC’s don’t just join to check a box, find something you want to spend time doing and that you would like to become more involved in a leadership position.
If you cant find anything try and start a club, find students interested in its as well and get a teacher to sponsor it.

52

I know you siad quantity doesnt matter, but how much quality ecs should I have currently?

53

If you are working, that is a major one for you and you could have one or two meaningful things you are involved with in your community. It might be tied to your career interests or just something you are passionate about.

Do not go do things just for the sake of building a list for someone else.

I have had T20 admissions staff state if they have two applicants with similar academics and scores, they will probably select the one who worked at Panda Express for two years to help with expenses over the one with dozens of ECs but no connection to them.

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54

First your job at Home Depot I don’t know how many hours a week you work but lets say 15 to 20. That will probably be your biggest EC. When you apply to schools make sure you tell in the application how many hours you work, any promotions, employee awards and training etc.
Working and going to school doesn’t leave a lot of time so probably 2-4 other EC’s that are meaningful to you and where you are not just checking a box but are actively involved could be in a leadership position, winning an award, mentoring, tutoring, coaching or helping in the community.
You can tailor your Ec’s to your career goals
Want to get into healthcare volunteer at a nursing home
Politics contact local mayor/commissioners and ask if you can shadow them
Do you play sports volunteer to coach younger kids elementary school age start as an assistant coach contact rec league or city parks and rec whoever runs the league
Be creative if you don’t want to due EC’s thru school
There should also be the possibility to start a club at you school as well

55

I might have to quit though (not forever) because I am taking an extremely rigorous junior schedule and I really can’t afford to get grades lower than an A- or else my gpa will deplete even more. I also run a “business” where I just sell shoes on instagram and I can probably make at least 5 figures by 2024 (started end of 2023), do you think this would also be a decent extracurricular? For the home depot, I plan to come back to the job (started sophomore 2nd semester, wil lquit start of junior) and continue it during January where I can drive freely and where I am used to my classes for junior year, without weird schedules. What i mean by weird schedules is my dad always has to give me a ride and I can’t constantly text him, and I saw him struggle during 2nd semester of sophomore year, so when I am able to drive, I can arrive home whenever I want thus making me go to my job easier. Do you think working 2nd semester junior year till like senior year would be fine cause getting my dad to drive me to home depot everyday during school year especially with a younger brother and sister is extremely difficult (mom works and buses/ ubers are a pain to take everyday).

56

Yes, especially if you want to be a business major or if the school you are applying to has an entrepreneurship major.
You will need to explain in your applications about it. not just i sell shoes online

57

Yea that’s the goal, obviously ill try to aggrandize it the best i can but yea.

58

My son quit his job due to a rigorous schedule. He did just fine. He quit senior year. If you find your schedule too hard, then cut back your hours. Home Depot needs you and whoever they can find - maybe go to one day a week or one day every two weeks - to keep your tenure.

You have a 3.9 UW. So your GPA hasn’t depleted to begin with.

You are way too hard on yourself - and you are looking at this wrongly. You are constantly glass half empty. You need to become glass half full.

You put way too much weight on your counselor who likely won’t impact your college admissions and certainly not your life - and you are blistering yourself for no reason.

You have a great GPA. You work. Now you say - you can make 5 figures. You start a business and make 5 figures - hmmm - that’s better than 99% of anyone’s ECs out there. You’re creating, you’re entrepreneurial - my god, you have so much going for you.

You have to change your mindset!!

As for transport issues, can you bike or uber if needed? Is there a closer location to home? Listen, family first - so if you lose Home Depot, you lose it. Life will go on and so will your admissions to many fine colleges.

Guess what - tons of colleges don’t even care about ECs. Do the best you can with what you have. Change your attitude - and everything will be fine.

You are in a great position. Don’t sully it with a bad attitude.

Good luck.

59

Thankfully I don’t have a terrible attitude anymore. For the gpa part I know a 3.9 or a 3.8 isn’t bad but I am literally on the brim of losing my 3.9 to a 3.8 so yea (I want to try to keep it of course). Also home depot requires at least 12 hours a week and that is probably impossible not even cause of my school, but because of transportation. Uber is viable but to pay twice school to job to job to school is very cost efficient and I am unable to ride a bike in my area. Thanks for your input though it really made me feel better of myself. I will definitely pick up my job hopefully because when I am able to drive, my issues of transportation would be gone and hopefully by 2nd semester of junior year, I’ll be able to balance my rigorous aps with at least 12 hours of work. Also the counselor criticism I kind of got out of hand, but please understand that she always looks down at me talking about I do nothing outside of studying and contribute nothing to the school and it really does hurt because I try to update her every time about what I do.

60

I got news for you.

If you have a 3.8 or 3.9, in 50 years, you’ll be in the same place.

You are waaaaay over emphasizing this - and you’re in high school. Why so much pressure? College comes later - and that will be pressure. And then life and bills.

You’re a kid - don’t be so hard on yourself.

And guess what - if you go to Hofstra instead of Harvard - you, moreso than the school, will determine your long term success.

So do what you can - but at 17, this is way too much pressure…way too much pressure.

If you can’t drive and have to drop the job, so be it. Family first - gotta help dad. Or perhaps there’s a job closer to home that you can find a way to get to.

btw - many kids contribute nothing to school - in fact, likely most. Not everyone wants to play sports or join clubs, etc. Maybe you’re mis reading her or maybe she’s having troubles at home.

I would stop focusing on here - but I would do what I recommended before - make a brag sheet/ resume. Send it to her with a nice note - you want her to know what you’ve accomplished, you’re looking forward to next year, and wishing her a great summer.

And move on.

She’s likely to fill out the school profile for you and that’s it - that’s what overworked counselors do.

She might be glass half empty - but no reason to let it rub off on you.

Inform her with the resume/brag sheet, smile when you see her and move on.

And stop freaking out about grades - in the end, a 3.8, a 3.2, etc. whatever- you’ll end up where you should.

More important than grades is ensuring you understand material…especially in classes that build, like math.

Good luck.

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61

I think when aiming for top schools, I should at least be in the 3.9 range.