<p>“I am not holding my bated breath on that last part. Easier to quote directly from the union propaganda when looking for soundbites.”</p>
<p>I have a friend who founded a charter school. She cherrypicked through very careful siting of the school, where she knew that certain “classes of people” wouldn’t choose to attend. Then she figured out who is likely to enter a lottery, and recruited only within certain subneighborhoods. Sounds like an Ivy, doesn’t it?</p>
<p>Doesn’t matter, though. We have lots of data, nationwide, on charters. The results are, at very best, underwhelming. You’d think being able to “cherrypick” non-union teachers (along with students) should result, universally, in much better results. The data demonstrate otherwise. (I’m for them, in any case, because having two bad choices is better than having only one. ;))</p>
<p>I have posted this many times. I manage unionized government employees. The blame placed on unions is misguided in my opinion. The union makes sure I follow the terms of the contract and that the employee receives due process. But I thank you all who would allow me to place the blame on the unions when I fail to do my job properly.</p>
<p>Political influence and the political reward system hurts education far more than the teachers union.</p>
<p>The pension problem is just a giant version of the “promise more than you can deliver” problem that is not that uncommonly found here in the form of parents who promised to “do that it takes” to pay for their kid’s college but then cannot afford any of the schools that the kid gets admitted to. Social Security and Medicare are similar. Basically, someone in the past made a promise that is now very hard to honor, and the politics get really nasty and mean-spirited when it comes down to who takes the loss or has the promise broken.</p>
<p>The pensions are not union pensions. The pensions existed with the same terms before there were unions. The pensions apply to union and non-union workers. In fact the majority of the time the biggest pension outrages are paid to non-union administrators and non-union political insiders.</p>
<p>". Basically, someone in the past made a promise that is now very hard to honor, and the politics get really nasty and mean-spirited when it comes down to who takes the loss or has the promise broken."</p>
<p>What happened with both teachers and state workers is that legislatures and school boards kept wages artificially low (in my state, they still do), in favor of health care and retirement benefits - the idea being that keeping people on the job was a good thing (because replacement costs are very high.) So teachers and state workers kept their part of the bargain, working until they retired, and now they are expecting to collect on their side of the ledger.</p>
<p>If the legislature wants to pay me back wages for what I could have gotten in the private market over 20 years, plus interest, and allow me to put that all into a 40lK, I’ll be more than delighted to forego my pension. Oh, and by the way - I am NOT a member of a state worker union. My pension gives me 2% per year of work of my average salary, further reduced by the number of months I retired before age 65. I get NO health benefits until I’m on Medicare, when I can BUY a supplement through the state. That’s it. If there is someone outraged by that, have at it.</p>
<p>Mini, ask 100 people and most would define cherrypicking as … picking the best from an available pool. In the case of schools, the accusation has been leveled on the basis of selecting the “creme de la creme” and increase the chances of success. As an analogy, I talk about a cherrypicker selecting the best fruit on the tree and letting the birds have the rest. You are talking about planting the right of trees or deciding to work in a region known for its good crops. Those are NOT necessarily one and the same. </p>
<p>If the process of relying on a crafty location analyses worked that well, there would hardly be a need for lotteries. And, unfortunately, the lotteries do exist, and they are heartbreaking as videos easily document. And also what exists is a great number of children and parents who want the opportunity of changing their educational environment. And contrary to the belief that those kids are the highest scorers who have dedicated parents, the sadder reality is that the students form pools of at-risk students. At-risk students who are deliberately set up for failures as the environment they are joining will defacto have lesser financial resources. And why I called it a poisoned pill, as the release of control was balanced with an obvious desire to see the “new” school fail miserably. </p>
<p>You say that two bad choices are better than one; and I believe that we ought to have multiples BETTER choices by decoupling the funding of education from our monopolistic system. And yes, better choices come from school choice and school freedom. </p>
<p>But then again, a constant of the supporters of our current system is that parents are not able to make judicious choices and that the “government” should make sure to protect them from bad choices by making it for them. I would venture that the same parents find that position pretty offensive, especially when dealing with the sole and bad choice at their disposal. </p>
<p>And that leaves the question about WHY some remain staunchly opposed to changes. Is the protection of a corrupt and overly-political trade union really worth sinking deeper and deeper? Just for the sake of maintaining power? </p>
<p>All in all, it helps to look at all of this through a cynical lens. A lens that masks the tears forming in the eye.</p>
<p>Of course, it doesn’t matter much. The studies have compared like students, from like environments, with similar characteristics, similar demographics. The charter schools - where they cherrypicked the teachers if nothing else, and chose the curriculum, etc., etc., - just don’t perform better than the public schools, and in many cases significantly worse.</p>
<p>Now, I’m no defender of public education. We are homeschoolers. I believe that the Simon Sez mentality and authoritarian structure of “good schools” is a bigger problem than the so-called “underperformance” of poor ones. But that’s a discussion for another time. I think public schools are spectacularly successful what they do. More than 80% of Americans are happy with their local public school. Americans vote to fund them. And they are producing the workforce needed “to meet the challenges of the 21st Century.” (and it has nothing to do with unions.)</p>
<p>I have to admit that I have been disappointed with the data regarding charter schools in general. It was a concept I had high hopes for but it’s not panning out. There simply is no miracle cure.</p>
<p>As for unions, they make life better for teachers. That’s something society used to embrace but now teachers are being treated like the so-called “welfare queens” of the past. Corporate/government will truly go after anyone to protect their oversized share of the pie.</p>
<p>I, for one, fully expected and expect the poor results. Again, I do not buy the “cherrypicking” element and the resulting “better students.” Then I look at the funding restrictions imposed on charters. They have to do with they have in terms of spending per capita, which is lower than at competing public schools, and they do not have the same ability to raise funds for permanent assets. </p>
<p>And, as far as results, the irony is that we seem to base the comparisons on short term test scores. The same tests that are widely decried and despised by the “establishment.”</p>
<p>As usual, we expect clear black on white answers, and that best we should see a sea of hues of gray.</p>
Government workers make more than private sector workers on average, and have for quite a while.</p>
<p>What is the NPV of your pension? I bet it is way higher than anything you would have in a 401k, unless you are Warren Buffett-esque.</p>
<p>
Average over what period of time? In MA it’s the average of your 3 highest consecutive years. Lifers max out at 80% of that average, and can retire way before 65 with full benefits and insurance. </p>
<p>Apparently your union is not doing a good job buying politicians.</p>
<p>My SS “pension”, which I’ve paid into at 12+% for much of my working life, will pay less than 30% of my final years’ pay. SS + my 401k, for which I’ve been pumping another 15% of my income into for forever, will give me another 20%, maybe. So for 25%+ of my pay for my career, I will likely get less than 50% of my final years’ pay.</p>
<p>Your pension doesn’t sound like a bad deal to me.</p>
<p>“Of course, it doesn’t matter much. The studies have compared like students, from like environments, with similar characteristics, similar demographics. The charter schools - where they cherrypicked the teachers if nothing else, and chose the curriculum, etc., etc., - just don’t perform better than the public schools, and in many cases significantly worse.”</p>
<p>They’ve been a complete flop in the city near where I live. Almost all have closed within a few years do to poor performance.</p>
<p>Xiggi, how does charter funding work where you are? Here, the district pays the per capita pupil expense to the charter, along with the charter’s pension share and workers’ comp. That’s how many charters can claim to be tuition free. The home district is also required to provide transportation as it does for public schools; the state reimburses the charter ---- not the district ---- for a percentage of those. Charters are a very lucrative business, with no requirement to provide any particular student with anything, at least not here in PA.</p>
<p>greenbutton they are so lucrative that two of the NJ party bosses are their biggest proponents. Both are involved in running charter schools themselves.</p>
<p>What is the NPV of your pension? I bet it is way higher than anything you would have in a 401k, unless you are Warren Buffett-esque."</p>
<p>If I had the salary that was foregone for 20 years (my “worth” in the private sector was about 40-60% higher than in the public), my 401k based on all those years, and the 401k value of the difference in income over that period of time, I’d be, quite literally, a millionaire. </p>
<p>“Average over what period of time?”</p>
<p>Entire career.</p>
<p>My pension is well less than 35% of my final year’s pay, after 20+ years of work. </p>
<p>I’m lucky. I have a hospice nurse for a wife, who nets more than my physician. (And thank heavens for her union!!!)</p>
<p>A problem that we had with charters in NH is that the state gave the money to the local school district that was supposed to turn the money over to the charter schools. Which they didn’t do. That was fixed some years ago.</p>
<p>We used to have a charter school that killed all of the school districts on state assessments that was about 1/3rd mile from where we live. They’ve moved to bigger digs now. They took students from all over the state and parents were responsible for providing transportation. I think that they had students from up to an hour away. That’s a lot of dedication. We would have considered them instead of homeschooling if they were around in our timeframe; they came too late for our kids.</p>
<p>These things can work but they take a lot of effort from everyone involved.</p>
<p>BTW, I checked and Singapore does have a teachers union. I’m pretty sure that their role is a lot different compared to the US as they are paid well and highly respected. I was surprised to see that Singapore spends more per student on average than the US in terms of their own currency. If you look at it in terms of US dollars, the amounts may be similar.</p>