There’s no reason to take MV in high school. There’s plenty of time to get through the longest math sequences in college without it. That said, if a student is ahead in math, and they enjoy it, I’d say take it. I wouldn’t do it at the expense of physics.
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If I had a buck for every HS kid who claimed they were going to med school- and did NOT end up in med school- wow, I’d have a LOT of bucks.
I’m in the minority on CC that it’s too early for your kid to have a granular plan for her future life (a general plan- i.e. more likely to involve the sciences than become a graphic designer or a voice artist is of course, fantastic). But boiled down- your D is interested in “the sciences” whether that ends up with her going to med school, or becoming an epidemiologist, or developing AI for robotic limbs, or working for a major cancer center recruiting patients for clinical trials, or becoming a genetic counselor, or working in pharma creating faster and cheaper diagnostic tests.
So for a “most likely a science-related career”-- your D should take physics, which is a non-trivial and foundational part of “science”. Taking three science classes in one year in HS sounds like a dreadful plan- just from a sleep/nutrition/exercise perspective. So which of her AP’s she drops in order to fit in physics- that’s up to her.
But NOT taking a physics class, since your HS offers one- seems short-sighted to me, whether or not she becomes a doctor, has to worry about the MCAT’s, or anything else. You want to “do” science as a profession-- skipping a foundational course when it’s available doesn’t seem wise.
I will put in a plug for physics. I never took it in HS (girls were not encouraged to reach in the sciences at my HS, except for AP Bio which the school felt was helpful for nursing school, which is where many of my classmates ended up- not BSN’s, just plain vanilla RN). But I was AMAZED how much fun my kids all had in HS physics! Greatly helped by having a gifted teacher. Greatly helped that they were all much better in math than I was. Greatly helped by a reasonably gender neutral science track so it wasn’t “one girl in a room full of boys”.
But the subject matter itself- and the labs- wow! What incredible fun. Once the math part was conquered, the teacher moved them into the “build a functioning catapult out of toilet paper rolls and show your calculations” or “demonstrate to the class why a skyscraper built from marshmallows and gumdrops is stable” or all the flying and shooting stuff. It made me realize how much I had missed. Physics seemed boring to me in HS- so no great loss that I didn’t take it-- but honestly, it was the “action movie” part of science which my kids loved. Planes that took off and those that didn’t. Boats that sank and those that worked-- even made out of poland springs bottles. Etc.
She might love physics!
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Seriously, you joined a nanosecond ago and you think being dismissive to experienced users trying to assist you is the best course of action?!?!
No problem, I’m out
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I think it is pretty unanimous… find a way to take high school physics. 
When it comes to math, I don’t know of any med schools that require math beyond calc/stats. @thumper @WayOutWestMom is that correct?
If she takes BC junior year then I would strongly consider Stats senior year. It is a very useful class even if she does not continue on to med school. My D took AP credit for calc and did not take it in college. She will take a stats and data science course as electives.
ETA: meant to reply to the thread, not @eyemgh
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I’m sorry; I should have been more respectful to a moderator, but I felt you were being very dismissive.
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I was thinking in terms of college. Our CC advise Multi vs Stats in terms of max rigor. We have seen anecdotal evidence that this is correct advice.
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Thanks. I agree, and I will strongly encourage her to take physics. Taking it in the summer at a CC or local private school would let her have everything that she wants, but while she is willing to work like a dog during the school year, she is very protective of her summer. But as all have said, she can’t have everything.
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My husband tutored students in physics for the MCAT for a time. Based on what he saw, the less interest a student has in it natively, the more structured classroom exposure to it they should have. Starting that process in high school is much lower stakes.
If your daughter likes biology and chemistry and will have already taken a high school class in them, she will be fine in Bio 1 or Chem 1. I wouldn’t necessarily say the same thing about Phys 1 with an uninterested student and no prior exposure.
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it’s also a requirement for a bachelor’s degree in biology and chemistry. 2 semesters of physics is part of the core sequence of required courses for graduation.
If she majors in chemistry, she will likely be required to take calculus-based physics as a graduation requirement because you need calc-based physics for PChem. She’ll also need multi-variable calc and linear algebra for PChem.
Really wouldn’t want her first exposure to physics to be in college. Most pre-meds find physics one of the more challenging required courses. (Along with Ochem, physics is one of the so-called “weeder” courses required for premeds.)
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Thanks, very helpful insight.
I hope you don’t mind this addition. NO medical school will care about the number of AP courses a kid takes in high school. I’m still not sure why there seems to be a push here for so many AP and challenging courses in one high school year.
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Your reply illustrates my point. You said she is aiming for a top LAC, so its pretty safe to assume she will be competing with those students. Every college I have ever visited stressed the importance of max rigor (in the context your school). While I don’t believe in blindly curating a transcript, kids with these goals don’t have the luxury to not take something because “its not my favorite.”
She can stop at Latin IV and as a STEM student be fine everywhere, which would free 1 period.
If she takes AP Stats the same yezr she’s taking AP science, adv Physics, and the science research seminar it could work fine. She would need to have English (AP Lit not necessary but a senior honirs seminar a good idea) and 2 semesters of Social Science.
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You can take adcom’s at their word without slavishly believing that “rigor” means taking every single hard course available, regardless of what that workload looks like.
There are diminishing returns on AP classes- as there are with anything taken to the max. My own kids HS did not allow AP’s in freshman or sophomore year, so most kids (even the HYP kids) graduated with 4 or 5 AP’s. I recall one kid with 6. So I read about kids potentially taking two AP science classes the same year and I shudder-- AP sciences are a LOT of work. And not busy work.
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I dont believe in stacking up APs. Our school is one of those where you can;t take them until Jr year and only 3 at a time. I was referring specifically to the choice between MV or Stats, when OP said there are many strong students taking MV. Stats may not b the best choice in the context of their school.
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I don’t disagree that MV would be the maximum rigor at her school, but I think given (1) she is taking max rigor in everything else, (2) she will have already taken AP Calc, (3) she will be taking another math AP, and (4) AP Stats is probably way more useful for a future doctor or scientist, I think her choosing AP Stats over MV Calc is probably not going to be the difference between an acceptance or denial to a SLAC.
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When it comes to math, I don’t know of any med schools that require math beyond calc/stats.
There are a few: Harvard, Carle College of Medicine, Johns Hopkins, WashU, Texas Tech Medicine + Engineering program, UCSD, Stanford
Harvard HST-- calc 1, 2, 3, linear algebra, differential equations, Calc-based physics
Carle – calc 1, 2, 3, linear algebra, differential equations,
JHU-- calc 1, 2 + math-based statistics
WashU – calc 1, 2 ( advanced biostatistics course may be substituted for a second semester of calc)
Texas Tech requires a minimum of 3 advanced math classes selected from a list that are above calc 2 level
UCSD-- calc 1, 2
Stanford – calc 1 required, calc 2 “strongly recommended”
In addition to those med school with a upper level math requirementss, an even larger number strongly recommend (and in med school speak that means require) a semester of computer science/programming.
Those with a rec for computer science: Arkansas, Maryland, USC, UCLA, UCSD, Colorado, Loma Linda, Georgetown, Florida International, Johns Hopkins, UMass (TWO semesters of computer science), Michigan State, Nevada-Reno, North Dakota, Cincinnati, Penn, Universidad Central del Carribe, UPuerto Rico,
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Interesting; thanks for all that info!
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I did want to address this subquestion just because I think it is interesting and potentially important in general.
My two cents is the first few years of Chemistry are considerably less linear than Physics (or Math), and Biology is even less linear than that.
So with Math and Physics, I think there tends to be very concrete value in doing the standard sequence in HS as far as you can reasonably get (and frankly, if there is overlap between your HS classes and college classes, that probably won’t hurt your grades). Much less so with Chemistry and Biology, though–at least once past the intro level. And so I am personally somewhat skeptical about the AP Chemistry and AP Biology as college preparation, at least not for the sorts of Chem and Bio courses that STEM majors and pre-meds take at very selective colleges.
I note the STEM departments at our feederish HS (usually considered the best for STEM in our area) implicitly feel the same way. They offer AP Calc (both AB and BC), and then some standard post-BC math electives. They offer a Physics sequence that is not officially AP, but they note with a little self-study you can take the Physics AP tests. But they don’t offer AP Chem or Bio, and don’t even claim to be teaching to those tests. Instead, in Bio and Chem they offer what they describe as college-level/college-style courses, which they claim are better preparation than those APs.
So, for example, they specifically name the selected fields they will cover in Advanced Biology, and suggest it is at a 200 college level. In Chemistry, you can do a variety of one-term Inorganic electives (different sequences–we are on trimesters–are offered in odd and even years), or the year-long Advanced Chemistry: Organic course.
None of this is to suggest you need any of that to be prepared for college STEM–I just don’t think you should necessarily be relying on APs in Chem and Bio specifically to really leap you very far ahead. Of course they are still fine choices if you are interested, I just would definitely not see them as adding as much value in terms of college preparation as your first Physics course.
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Absolutely!!!
We see posts from time to time here on CC from university freshmen who are already taking organic chemistry and are suffering badly.
My daughters both waited to take organic chemistry until they were very well prepared and very much ready to take it. I think that both were juniors in university when they took it. This went much better. One called it the hardest B- that she ever had in her life (but still got into multiple very good DVM programs even with a B- on her transcript). The other just cruised through it, but this was because she took the time to prepare very well.
An A or a B in organic chemistry as a university junior is going to help a student’s chances for admission to medical school a lot better than a C or a D as a university freshman.
Some of the premed university courses really will be more challenging than anything that the student has seen up to that point. These courses will be full of very strong students and will have very tough exams. Classes full of strong students with a mid-term exam with a class average in the 40’s or 50’s is not unheard of. The toughest classes should be taken by students who took the time to be well prepared.
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