What does communism have to do with religion? Are you a commy-hating, veteran teabagger? ;)</p>
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I have to say, I am amazed that anyone can survive this thread and still be religious. Either you didn’t fully comprehend what has been said or just ignored it… Comparisons have been made to highlight the similarities between your beliefs and ones you think are ridiculous. The historical accuracy of your bible has been disputed. The extremely suspicious tendency for almost every Christian source of “proof” to cite a known forgery, and the lack of definitive evidence of any sort otherwise, has been pointed out. It’s been proved that morals are not dependent on any religion. It was cited (though you may not have read) that religion is actually a hindrance to improving conditions in countries. My list of religious detriments was agreed on by at least one Christian. You never came up with a counter-list, so I can only assume you didn’t try or were unsuccessful. I should actually go through and compile a list of the points made in this thread for my own reference later…</p>
<p>I’m just curious… After this long, what about this thread do you feel did not satisfy the requirements to challenge your beliefs? Here’s a big one: What would have to happen for you to truly question your beliefs?</p>
<p>I’ll be fair. If I witnessed any sort of supernatural occurrence, I would question my atheist reality. I don’t mean something incredibly unlikely, like jumping from a plane and surviving the landing without a parachute; I mean like calling out Bloody Mary or lightning striking some thug with a gun who was about to shoot an innocent kid. It would probably be one of the happiest days of my life if I was confronted by a demon. The spiritual fairytale world is so much more interesting and exciting.</p>
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Funny… I looked up the wiki entry on spirituality today. I wanted to say it was the placebo effect, but then I wasn’t really sure what it meant exactly. I’ll just quote the passage that relates to your quote :).
It’s a “nurturing” thought for some, but disconcerting for you… Very weird…</p>
Lol cute. I made it very clear both exactly what I meant and how in-depth my knowledge was in the OP. It’s not my fault if people want to respond and talk about math. Anyway, I’m pretty sure I used it correctly in the first place.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way…
Ad hominem: attacking the person instead of the argument.</p>
<p>Edit:
And just so you know, I have very strong morals that happen to be in conflict with religious morals/traditions, as well as the practices of people who are influenced by religion. Religion is in direct opposition to my efforts to make the world a better place.</p>
<p>Communism, even primarily as an economic stance, requires an undivided loyalty to the cause (read: party), the state, and your fellow comrades. Religion contends the authority of the state, which is, as a necessity by the communist economic model, totalitarian. This is why every communist leader from Stalin to Mao to Pol Pot eradicated the religious elements of their respective populations.</p>
<p>It is sort of like the dormant commerce clause in our constitution. Anti-religion might not be characteristic of communism, but it is a necessary requirement in carrying out the objectives of the world communist revolution and obedience to the system within the countries themselves. Totalitarianism isn’t a characteristic of communism either, but it seems to be necessary in order to demand allegiance to a single, organized power. Sometimes I say think that some American feel a similar way about “Freedom”, ironically. Love it or leave it, there’s only one America, etc. Idiots.</p>
<p>I’m not a tea-party member, supporter, or advocate.</p>
<p>You people just don’t get it, do you. You’ll probably never get it.</p>
<p>Slavery is a prime example.</p>
<p>Slavery didn’t exist because the good Bible justified it or said it was natural or right.</p>
<p>Slavery existed because people were GODDAMN LAZY AND DIDN’T WANT TO WORK. And they wanted to get WEALTHY. People want food, sex, resources, and power and they don’t care how they have to get it.</p>
<p>Throw in xenophobia to brown people and in-group loyalties and it’s amazing slavery wasn’t condoned longer in this f***ed up country.</p>
<p>Wake up, people. The Bible doesn’t create bigotry. The Bible reveals LATENT bigotry ALREADY present in people.</p>
<p>The Bible doesn’t make people hate gay people.</p>
<p>People who hate gay people turn to the Bible.</p>
<p>Tell a 10 year old who is isolated from the outside world, tell him to read the Bible. Ask him if he saw any anti-gay passages. He won’t find any. Because there are none. Of course, nowadays people make wild assumptions about Leviticus and you might as well say the Constitution gives everyone the right to hang bear arms on their wall.</p>
Where did anti-homosexual sentiment originate? You act like it has always been here, but it hasn’t. You’re right that our culture has adopted the moral and that current homophobes almost surely did not become the way they are because of religion. I witness anti-homosexual conditioning constantly in kids, starting about in 4th grade. But homophobic prejudice is legally and socially justified for religious reasons, where there would be no justification otherwise. Religion presents as a hindrance to improving living conditions, just as it probably did with slavery. Even if religious beliefs change in reaction to the independent human rights movement, they stand in direct opposition to it.</p>
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Yeah, I don’t see “resources” or “power” on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. (I’m aware of its criticisms.) The people who participated in slavery are the type you describe, but the people who condoned it, who were the ones being referenced, are not that type.</p>
<p>Obviously that man was stupid and didn’t have his head on straight. I don’t think that’s a correct metaphor for what religion and faith really mean when practiced correctly. Just consider that there is something deeper in faith, some connection with God and love, that gives strength to the poor and attracts them to religion.</p>
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<p>That’s right, gotakun. I’ve read every post in this thread and am still religious. And comments of the above certainly don’t help your cause. They just reveal insecurity.</p>
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<p>Or maybe it’s simply that you don’t have any solid arguments. Everything you say in that paragraph is either absolutely untrue, could be debunked by any decent theologian or historian, is insignificant, is blown out of proportion and significance, or true and of some significance but not enough to make serious people abandon their faith.</p>
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<p>Someone very well thought out, whom I respect, would have to reasonably and respectfully introduce well-formed arguments against faith in God. I haven’t found much on this thread. When you spout out vitriol or blanket statements about those with faith, your arguments don’t gain any credence.</p>
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<p>But that’s the thing. Faith is not about witnessing some supernatural reality in the way you describe it. It’s deeper than that.</p>
<p>A lot of people like the comforting God delusion. And why not? It’s quite comforting and fulfilling.</p>
<p>But when the chips are down, everyone questions the fairy tale. That’s why people fear death. If you really were to live forever in the happiest, most joyous place of all time, no one would ever fear death.</p>
<p>But no one believes it that much. You believe it so very much to maintain social appearances, and relieve cognitive dissonance, and to comfort yourself from horrible-sounding reality. But somewhere, in the deep recesses of your brain, you know that God, truly, is about as real as Santa Claus.</p>
<p>Well of course people can question their faith when the chips are down. But that doesnt say anything about the validity of faith either way. People fear death because faith in something you can’t see all the time is scary, and that there is an inherent mystery in death. Religion does not give some formula you can plug into your life to see if you’ll go to heaven or not. Fearing death and heaven existing are certainly not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>You can’t have an argument against it, because there isn’t one for it. It’s like trying to prove ghosts don’t exist…you can’t but you just know it doesn’t.</p>
<p>try to sell me religion, I don’t think you will be able to.</p>
<p>Sorry, I just don’t have the time to do it well. I’d read “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis or the “The Reason for God” by Timothy Keller if you’re interested, though.</p>
<p>I’d just like to chime in and say it’s one thing to “sell God,” it’s another to “sell religion.” Belief in a higher power (faith) can be separate from an organized following (religion). I’d be much more likely to be convinced of some higher power (though the odds are still very low) than I would be convinced to follow any sort of religious text.</p>
<p>I have provided in this thread a host of valid reasons against the existence of a Christian God or any semblance of an afterlife.</p>
<p>None has even been remotely responded to, let alone refuted or argued against.</p>
<p>All the reasons for the existence of God in this thread have been laughable, somewhere in the sphere of — I feel there is a God — shouldn’t there be a God? ---- I want there to be a God ----- when I see a cute furry bunny rabbit, I know there is a God.</p>
<p>All these books and youtube videos people are posting seem silly. Most of the time they are simply trying to prove that red = green, or that 15 = -29. It simply cannot be done, so they beat around the bush, talking feel-good rhetoric, dodging the issues or main points for about 300-500 pages.</p>
<p>That youtube video of that minister giving a sermon with a headset at a megachurch was particularly disturbing.</p>
<p>Back in the day, I at least went to a respectable Catholic church with sacred rituals and an ambience of respect and reverence to something old and traditional. These mega-entertainment churches with their rock bands and laser lights and smoke shows and idiot 30-something ministers dressed like they are on the blue-collar-comedy tour and sounding like tea-partiers with homilies about atheists — wow, what a joke.</p>
<p>I bet these mega-churches churn out at least 10-20 times more atheists than any Catholic or respectable Protestant church do. More like McChurches. “You give us money, we feed your delusions!”</p>
<p>Use of the term sodomite in the new testament may be a cause of misunderstanding, but Leviticus is absolutely clear on the issue.</p>
<p>“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”</p>
<p>This is in no way a “wild assumption” based on an archaic definition of certain terms, unless “put to death” actually means “given warm milk and cookies.” I kinda doubt that though.</p>
<p>You would have to be a moron to make that connection. It is quite clear to any logical person, that by the context of the passage, “bear arms” does not mean the founding fathers actually meant for us to be lopping off the arms of bears and mounting them on our wall.</p>
<p>Leviticus, on the other hand, says in no uncertain terms that “they shall surely be put death”.</p>
(I’m aware of its criticisms.) The people who participated in slavery are the type you describe, but the people who condoned it, who were the ones being referenced, are not that type.</p>