<p>We’ve been driving SUVs since before they were called SUVs too. Our first was a '85 Blazer. We moved onto a '94 Bronco, which we still drive, and then a '02 Explorer, which replaced my mini van (it had the 3rd row rear seats). I really liked my Explorer, but after my older son got his license I was able to go to a smaller cross-over vehicle, a BMW X3. I love driving it too. My husband also drives a 4 WD truck. We have property in the mountains, and the only access road requires 4 WD or AWD. We do tons of camping, backpacking, and we have a camper that we use a lot too.</p>
<p>And furthermore, live and let live implies certain measures of basic human consideration. You want to blast music in your home. Fine. You do it sitting on the beach next to me, I can object. You want to smoke, fine. You blow your smoke in my face, I can object. You want to drive your suburban assault vehicle around your yard, fine. Drive it at me and I can object. I get to live as well.</p>
<p>You’re just jealous.</p>
<p>I live in a rural/suburban area of Massachusetts. We got the first SUV when we lived in Minnesota. My son goes to college in very rural New Hampshire. You know just about nothing else about me, except that I drive an SUV. Yet you somehow feel justified in making unflattering assumptions. Your posts tell me everything I need to know about you.</p>
<p>By the way, I drive a mid-size SUV, actually smaller than a lot of sedans. But your generalizations don’t make any effort to differentiate a Hummer or Suburban from an Explorer or Escape. Maybe your argument would be more understandable if it demonstrated any logic.</p>
<p>I’d like to add that I don’t feel that anyone needs to justify their reasons for driving an SUV to you or any other SUV-hater. It’s none of your business whether an SUV driver lives in an urban or rural area. It is legal to own and drive an SUV, and if a driver behaves illegally they will be cited. </p>
<p>Your rude comments about whether or not I may have caused an accident (which I haven’t, since I’ve never been close to one) just shows a tendency to use personal insults instead of logic as a form of debate.</p>
<p>I actually classify SUVs into groups. There are the disgusting and gross environmentally unfriendly and conspicuous ones like the Denali, Hummer and Yukon, and the more friendly types (also get better mileage) like the Highlander, Honda CR-V, etc. </p>
<p>Most of these in the latter category are built on a car chassis, not truck, so while they are called “SUVs”, their mileage, gas consumption, and overall road use is not nearly as offensive as those in the former group.</p>
<p>JMHO, of course.</p>
<p>I have no burning desire to tell other people what they can and cannot drive, and I have no inclination for the government to step in and tell people what they can and cannot drive, but I hate SUVs, not because of jealousy, but because they make my drive more dangerous. </p>
<p>I am probably going to be in the market for a new (used) car soon, and I’m planning on getting a Toyota ECHO - it has a similar feel to a minivan as far as sitting and getting in and out of the car, which is important to me because I have a bum hip, yet it is small enough and light enough that I won’t be spending my kids college money filling it up. </p>
<p>As far as those trips to college, that seems like a silly reason to buy a big SUV. I’ve rented a pick-up truck when I’ve needed to haul things. I mean, if that’s the justification you need to buy one, suit yourself, but I maintain that it’s a pretty silly reason.</p>
<p>Minivan mileage is not great–though better than the big SUVs, (which is why i’m so glad to have the hybrid now), but the main difference between them and the big SUV’s is, as was mentioned earlier, the bumper height. Mandate that bumpers be the same level as cars (as minivan bumpers are) and I could find it a lot easier to live with them. As they are, they’re a menace. this problem doesn’t seem to be true of the smaller ones like CRVs, EScapes, and Subaru Forresters, which also get much better mileage.</p>
<p>No vehicle is inherently a menace. The menace is dependent on the driver. It’s true that not everyone knows how to drive an SUV, particularly if it’s a 4WD in bad weather. However, a good driver in an SUV is probably less likely to cause an accident than a good driver in a regular sedan, simply because of the increased visibility of the road ahead. As for seeing what’s happening ahead of the vehicle in front of you, if you’re a safe distance behind that vehicle, it shouldn’t be a worry.</p>
<p>I agree with sjmom that it’s really no one’s business what someone else drives and there isn’t something inherently bad or selfish about people based on the type of vehicle they drive, or the size house they live in, or the number of trips they take, or how much they spend. The ability to make these types of decisions based on your own free will, your finances, and your circumstances, isn’t likely to change, to any real degree, anytime soon. Do we really want some governing body to tell us what we may or may not do when it comes to decisions like this? I certainly don’t.</p>
<p>There does seem to be a certain smugness to people who drive certain types of cars but with the latest concerns about hybrids, I think we can see that there is never just one definitive answer. I have a sister-in-law who thinks she deserves a medal because she drives a Prius, yet she lives in a big house (so do I and that’s not my point) that she airconditions from April 1 to the end of October, regardless of the outdoor temperature and the lights blaze in every room all day long. In the end, people will make their own choices, and others may or may not agree with them.</p>
<p>See, I guess this is where you and I differ Alwaysamom. I don’t necessarily want governing bodies legislating what we can or cannot do either (although there is plenty of that happening already), but I can say that I think it is selfish for people to live in gigantic wasteful homes, or drive gigantic, wasteful cars. We have a finite supply of oil and other energy worldwide, and it certainly seems selfish to me, that some people choose to use so much more than others. Just because they CAN drive or own a big behemoth…should they?</p>
<p>This will not change until we are forced to change…and that time will come, no doubt about it.</p>
<p>So where does it stop, allmusic? Should we be limiting the number of children people have, too? Should homes be tested to see how energy efficient they are? Should people who drive 10 year old cars which give off dangerous emissions have their cars taken off the roads?</p>
<p>It’s funny when one drives a small car (Passat wagon) and is surrounded daily by young moms in their Cadillac Esplanades and Lincoln Navigators with one little car seat in the back for baby Ethan. I try not to care, but most days (especially when I sit patiently while waiting for them to maneuver into their parking spots), I can’t help but find it rather obnoxious.</p>
<p>Sorry Irishmom of 2, Toyota has discontinued the Echo, my D has one, and it is discontinued about a year after we bought it. There is a replacement Toyota with a different name.
I like driving her Echo, but it is difficult to see around any car in it, not just the Suburbans! I like to pull through parking spots when I’m in it, so that I don’t have to back out.
DH observed last night that if everyone switched to Echos, we could add another lane on our busy, crowded, backed-up street, would that save energy? More cars burning less fuel and getting you there faster?</p>
<p>“So where does it stop, allmusic? Should we be limiting the number of children people have, too? Should homes be tested to see how energy efficient they are? Should people who drive 10 year old cars which give off dangerous emissions have their cars taken off the roads?”</p>
<p>No but every one can and should act with social consciousness for the greater good. Remeber it is your kids and grand kids you are leaving this world to after you die in the next 25+ years.</p>
<p>I admit I do really like the all wheel drive- although I don’t understand why for a relatively new car- it didn’t have antilock brakes as standard ( I also dont understand why you would have to special order a manual transmission in a Jeep) 
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<p>I originally started this thread to remind of the lack of visibility danger re: children- but I also agree that when driving we all have a responsibility.</p>
<p>Those in small cars- have a responsibility to stay out of the blind spots of larger cars.
Those with big tanks, have a responsibility to not just shove their way over on top of smaller cars.
If you are going to drive a large truck- learn how to do so. Don’t be like these bus drivers who take up two lanes because they don’t know how much room they need.
Heading into summer vacation season- I dread being on the road with 18- wheelers. They change lanes without signaling, they box you in, and they ride on your bumper.
( I saw a bumpersticker I liked at the rugby game- it was on an Explorer, driven by someone my age- it said * if you are going to ride my ass, pull my hair* 
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<p>For safetys sake- don’t ride in the trucks blind spot, don’t trap someone else in next to them, they may have an exit they need to watch for & don’t cut in right in front of them, they need a lot of braking time.</p>
<p>Also be aware, when and where there are going to be lots of trucks on the road- driving into rural areas, lots of trucks, because they may not have anyother way to ship goods. I get nervous driving around logging trucks, because the highway is often just two or three lanes with no divider between.
( I am also anticipating my daughter going on a school related Mountaineer trip this summer with narrow highways traveled by logging trucks where she may be riding with a student driver- I agreed with her, that her friend is a good driver, but no matter how watchful she is, a 17 year old doesn’t have a lot of experience)</p>
<p>Watch for unsecured loads- open truck beds piled with stuff may not be secured properly and if they slam on their brakes, it might go through your windshield. ( another reason not to follow so close)</p>
<p>But especially be careful around interstate trucks. I know that many drivers are very good- but my FIL drove a truck and I know that the job has changed to include many more people who aren’t as careful of drivers, who may be using drugs in order to stay awake to make better time ( and pay), or even only that they aren’t very experienced, and there really is too much traffic on the road in many areas to be out there if you aren’t experienced.</p>
<p>Dont drink and drive
Dont smoke and drive
Don’t text message and drive
Have your radio turned down low enough that you can hear the children screaming in the back seat
Don’t use your cell phone unless it is an emergency
Don’t honk at me if I am putting on makeup because I am at the stop light and I know how long it is. :D</p>
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Some people that haven’t been 4-wheeling don’t know how most people conduct themselves when 4-wheeling. Note that I didn’t call it ‘off-roading’ and in my other post I mentioned ‘trails’. This is because responsible 4-wheelers, which IMO is most of them, stick to established trails when 4-wheeling. They provide more than adequate challenge. Most places I’ve been 4-wheeling (Borrego desert, Mojave desert, Ouray Colorado area, Canyonlands/Moad Utah area, Arizona, Sierra mtns, Oregon mtns, and others) already have existing logging, fire, and old mining trails. This is where the 4-wheelers go. In most of these areas one couldn’t go off the trail even if they wanted too because it’s too rugged. The majority of damage I’ve seen to these areas is from motorcycles and ATVs but even that’s (fortunately) somewhat limited by the rugged terrain and the availability of OHV areas.</p>
<p>And, most 4-wheelers I’ve know also hike depending on their ability. I was able to show my mother some very nice backcountry in Arizona and Utah that she never could have seen without being a passenger in a 4WD due to mobility issues.</p>
<p>The idea people have that SUV = Poor mileage or SUV = mileage worse than any car is just incorrect. Not all SUVs are the same just as all cars, pickups, vans, mini-vans, etc. aren’t the same. I could always argue with the Prius driver as to why they’re not biking, walking, or riding public transport instead. Different people have different needs and desires.</p>
<p>I agree that people should be responsible about how they use resources. I just think it’s ridiculous to focus on one thing – SUVs – vs all the other ways that we can save energy. I drive quite a bit less than many people I know, and I combine trips because I’m too cheap to blow the college money on gas. Some of you who object to SUVs may actually use a comparable amount of gas as me. We also keep our thermostat at 68 degrees or less in the winter, and prefer to have the windows open in spring and summer, when possible. (I can’t stand humidity – grew up in a desert climate – so use the A/C for that.)</p>
<p>The car I drove before the first SUV we owned was an AWD minivan. That thing was bigger than the SUV, and got about the same mileage. It served our needs at the time, with field trips, sports equipment, visitors, etc. The bumper height seemed about the same as the SUV, but its handling was much worse. But I’ve never heard a poster accuse a minivan driver of being selfish or worse.</p>
<p>I just have a problem with the moralizing approach of some people who object to SUVs. For every objection someone brings up, I can think of a reason why the problem isn’t limited to SUVs. Yet, people somehow feel smug about attaching all kinds of attributes to those of us who drive SUVs. For example, FireBadTreePretty has made these comments:
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<p>So, without knowing anything more about me, other than what I’ve posted, he/she has made all these assumptions – after 35 posts on CC. Can we say “prejudice” anyone?</p>
<p>However, I guess we have FBTP’s permission to own an SUV if you live in the country.<br>
Gee, thanks. What should we do if we move? Sell the SUV? You might want to rethink your logic, here.</p>
<p>cangel - yeah, I’m looking for a used one, not a new one, so hopefully I can find something to suit my needs. A lot of smallish cars are being built now with higher seats, so if I can’t find an ECHO, I should be able to find something.</p>
<p>I just wanted to add that there were a few cases in the news (about 20 years ago) when we lived in California about kids being backed over in their own driveway. What I remember is that the vehicles were vans of some type, and a Volvo station wagon. Whatever you drive, it just makes sense to look behind your vehicle before you get in, to make sure that there aren’t some kids playing in the area. If toddlers are around, make sure someone is holding onto them before you back out. A few minutes of planning can avert a tragedy.</p>
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<p>This being a bit judgmental isn’t it? </p>
<p>So, who gets to decide what vehicle people ‘need’ and what attitude all of those drivers have (without having ever met them)? I could be judgmental and claim that you don’t need whatever it is that you drive (assuming you do) but I’m not. I could decide that there’s no need for you to use electricity and consume energy resources, but I won’t. I could decide that you don’t need to live in the type of home that you do because you could live in something more efficient, but I won’t.</p>
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Why, BadFireTreePretty, of course! :mad:</p>