<p>I love my Lexus GX480. At 5’1" I had always had to drive with the seat very far forward to see over the front of my cars. Not so in my SUV. I can safely see all, without needing to be so close to the steering wheel (airbag danger). Also, the rear back-up camera is fantastic…</p>
<p>I have an Isuzu Trooper and my wife has an Isuzu Rodeo. Apparently Isuzu no longer makes their own suvs. I really like my Trooper. Big, square, and plain. Since I moved to Madison it hardly goes anywhere. Best thing about it: my knees don’t hurt because the seat sits high. I hope to keep it for a long time.</p>
<p>I personally think Hummers are hideous. So I just do not buy one…</p>
<p>And I do pretty much consider myself a libertarian…I cannot think of an area where that ideal set is not consistent with what I believe…</p>
<p>Most of this SUV/not SUV obsession is beside the point. It’s all about vehicle weight. If it’s powered by gasoline, you can pretty much just check the curb weight and engine size to determine efficiency information. Economy cars weigh less than 3,000 pounds, mid-size cars around 3,000-3,800, and large ones over 4,000. Those numbers haven’t really changed since the 60s. Ironically, even with the advent of lower weight high-strength steel, plastics, and aluminum, the average car today weighs MORE than it did 25 years ago. People now demand safer structures, air bags, air conditioning, power seats, power steering, and larger wheels and tires: all of which add a lot of weight to a car. I hate to say it like this, but it’s typical of the industrialized world that we want efficiency but are generally not willing to DO anything to get it.</p>
<p>That Ford Explorer/Honda Pilot/Chevy Trailblazer/Acura MDX/Mercedeslexusporsche(for crying out loud – there is a Porsche SUV) out there weighs even more than my mom’s '68 Ford station wagon, has about the same fuel economy, and hauls the same load of people and stuff. Nothing has really changed over time, except the aesthetic sense of car buyers.</p>
<p>Since I’ve been mentioned in a number of posts, and accused of being “judgmental” (egads! A CC poster being judgmental, whatever will be next?), allow me to respond. First, I don’t terribly care about the SUV’s fuel efficiency. Never raised that point. I also never said that SUV drivers are fundamentally unsafe drivers. Rather, the SUV is a fundamentally unsafe vehicle to others, regardless of the driver. I never suggested SUV’s were the only danger on the road. Speeders, cell phone talkers, Hummers, are all manaces. But that doesn’t lessen the menace posed by SUV’s to car drivers. When you are part of a society, the fact that you have a right to do something should be nuanced by the impact it has on others. In our town we are wrestling with people building huge homes that destroy the character of neighborhoods. Do they have the right to build them - yes. But should they? I think this is an appropriate topic for discussion. You have the right to have a loud and vulgar cell phone call on the train. But should you? I think driving an SUV is the same. Sure, you have the right. And I am being facetious when I suggest the government should ban them. But I believe that for most people who drive them, they might think twice about whether they really need to, and what impact they have on the others on the road. Even libertarians live amongst other. A bit of consideration is all I suggest. (And SJMom, you’re right - I don’t know you and you might be a lovely person. I object to your vehicle, not you. And suggesting that my opinion is worth comparably less than yours because I have only posted 35 times is really pretty funny. Thanks, I needed that.</p>
<p>FBTP, I think you have it exactly wrong. Small cars are a hazard. My father spends hours every week scraping them off the undercarriage of his F-350 pickup, and then he has to take those bits and pieces to the recycling center. Considerate people would drive larger vehicles. Or at least ones that didn’t stick when you run over them.</p>
<p>Considerate people should just follow the rules of the road, personally everyone can drive what they would like. I would like to see the car manufacturers find a way to make suvs more efficient.</p>
<p>FireBadTreePretty, before you get too far along in your righteous indignation, why don’t you go back and read ALL of your posts on this thread, particularly the personally insulting ones you directed toward me. And, yes, I think that it would be wise for a relative newcomer to get the lay of the land regarding how people interact on a discussion forum, before going nuclear. You have been more than just judgemental and now are surprised that you’ve been called on it. Hit and run tactics aren’t usually a good way to conduct a discussion.</p>
<p>Great post, WashDad! Love your sense of humor.</p>
<p>There is some hope for Washdads dad (Washgrandpa?) - he does not drive the Hummer.</p>
<p>I think Hummers are hysterical. ( the new ones arent that huge- but when I think of a Hummer I think of Ah-nold)
I agree with being able to sit higher for better road viewing, but driving a Hummer in this area is like saying* I have a lot of money and really big genitalia, but I am too insecure to let people find out for themselves so I need to broadcast it by advertising.
So are you impressed? *
</p>
<p>Thankfully we don’t have too many in my neck of the woods because I don’t venture over to the wilds of the Eastside ( where the money and the Republicans live 
), too often. Not that I really care if people have to have one, but when you are driving on narrow streets with parking on both sides they can be a logistical hazard. I guess thats why the one I see is taxi cab yellow for visibility. I actually like that yellow :)</p>
<p>So as mentioned I have a Jeep- but a relatively smallish Jeep. Much smaller than my mini van for instance as I found when packing for camping for the first time, it was full and I still had half the stuff on teh ground! ( we had to get a rack and a cargo box)</p>
<p>But just being labled SUV sets some people off. I have gotten a nasty note on my car, when parked in a “compact” space ( aren’t they * all compact* now? ) informing me that I was driving was a scourge upon the landscape and I shouldn’t park in a compact space
I was parked well within the lines and it actually is shorter and narrower than other cars, just because it sits up higher I am supposed to feel guilty?</p>
<p>To bring it back to safety , the thing that really bothers me,
more than Hummers that are a ft wider than I am tall, more than little cars that pull up so tight on your rear bumper that you couldn’t see them if you got out and walked around your car, or motorcyclists who pass on the left into oncoming traffic ( although that is close) are the number of cars who have so much tinting on all their windows including the front windshield that you can’t even tell there is anyone in there, let alone be able to tell if they are watching the road.( and we have a lot of 4 way stops in my neighborhood, I want to know if they are paying attention)</p>
<p>Now I like * some* tinting. Being up higher in the Jeep means that the sun is at a slightly different angle and I like that the tinting on back windows keeps it quite a bit cooler. ( since I don’t have a moon roof anymore).</p>
<p>But it weirds me out that I can’t see the driver- I just wonder why they think they need it like that- I know that dark is probably illegal, but it doesn’t seem to affect the number of cars with tinted windows.</p>
<p>sjmom239 wrote: “We don’t yet live in a country where the government tells us what vehicles we may or may not purchase…The point is that people are free to buy whatever vehicle they choose – if someone doesn’t want an SUV of any kind, then here’s my advice. DON’T BUY ONE!”</p>
<p>Exactly. You are free to BUY whatever you wish to OWN. Driving it on public roads is another matter. Too many individuals confuse the two issues. </p>
<p>When you drive on a public road, you have just entered a world where you and your car are regulated. The problem is that, long ago, our representatives caved to the pressure of lobbyists for the automotive industry and allowed the “safety standards” to be changed for trucks/SUVs/etc. When there were fewer of these vehicles on the road, it didn’t seem to be a crucial issue. Today, it is.</p>
<p>I do find it interesting that some of the same people who argue about their “right” to drive whatever car they want - even gas guzzlers - don’t see the correlation between such attitudes and the problems in the middle east.</p>
<p>SJMom - reread the posts - I made not one single personal comment about you until after your post #59, and I quote:
“But at least you are a tolerant, non-judgemental, fair-minded person. (please read as much sarcasm as you can muster.) You seem to think live and let live is fine, as long as you get to dictate how everyone else lives.”
Sorry I haven’t posted more often, but I have a life, and I am getting back to it now. Washdad - thanks for the laugh. “Short people got…”</p>
<p>And furthermore (I’m taking a short break from my life), I’ve been a member of the forum for a couple of years already and read it religiously - I just don’t post that often, mostly to avoid arguments with some people. But on the issue of SUV’s - who can be silent?</p>
<p>FireBad, I don’t intend to continue our little side discussion. But I do have a final response to your comments. I DO find your comments to be judgemental.<br>
post #42
post #51
post #60</p>
<p>The first two comments were made after several posters, including me, talked about owning SUVs. Do you honestly think that your remarks were not derogatory toward all of us?</p>
<p>Finally, I think you were pretty rude with this comment
post # 60</p>
<p>I don’t have anything more to contribute – the safety issues are important for every driver, not just those who drive SUVs.</p>
<p>I don’t feel guilty about the Jeep.
If we start putting extensive restrictions on what people drive- how do we address instances when people are driving something that is 40 years old and they can’t afford anything else.( our pickup is 44 years old for instance)
Those cars were built when gas was cheap and plentiful.</p>
<p>I agree that it takes more gas than a smaller, lighter car. I have a V6 engine and a heavy chassis. ( My H also has a V6- but not an SUV, he has a T-bird supercoupe with dual exhaust and a turbo charged engine that probably uses more gas than the Jeep because of the way he drives)</p>
<p>However, neither one of my kids have ever owned a car, they either take public transportation, ride bikes or carpool. ( my older daughter does drive her roommates car occasionally).
We made the choice to live in the city,24 years ago, so that it is easy to walk or bike instead of driving. ( it only takes me 10 minutes to walk to the grocery store, I love it- unfortunately my dog can’t take so many walks anymore which is sad, because she used to love sitting outside the store and getting attention from lots of new people)</p>
<p>We have the luxury of making our own choices, but just as I may not know that the healthy looking person using the handicapped space has a critical heart condition, we also don’t know the other choices others are making re: environment,not that we can’t b<em>i</em>t<em>c</em>h, but when it gets sanctimonious, no one is really listening.
( and if they are like some, who get a perverse pleasure out of p<em>i</em>ss*ing people off, they may even flaunt it more) :eek:</p>
<p>I don’t get about this topic. If one has the money and would like to drive a bigger car or SUV, why it is any one else’s business. </p>
<p>BTW, seeing what many of you drive really make me feeling down. Being poor sucks.</p>
<p>Laserbrother. Dh drives a Toyota Corolla stick shift. It’s about five years old now and he plans to drive it till it dies. I drive a mini-van that we bought used. Do you feel better?</p>
<p>MathMom, we are in the same boat per se. I drive a 03 Taurus and DW drives a 03 Town and Country because we have a total of 7 people in the household. Both our cars were purchased last year as used. </p>
<p>I think buying a late model used car make the most ecomonic sense. My Ford is a certified CPO and the TC has a 6 year/100K mile BtB extended warrenty.</p>