<p>
</p>
<p>I agree that is a much better way of framing the question.</p>
<p>I am reviewing my tax situation and putting a number on how much of my taxes is going to go up if Obama is to be elected, based on his platform. Ouch !!</p>
<p>“I am reviewing my tax situation and putting a number on how much of my taxes is going to go up if Obama is to be elected, based on his platform.”</p>
<p>I suspect that he will have to backtrack on this at some point or maybe Congress will bail him out. The stock market can put quite a bit of pressure on a president or a presidential candidate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I fervently hope so ! Since at this point, the sentiments favor him as the next president of US. I am not a Bush supporter but his tax cuts benefited me and those will be gone, I am sure of it. Then the tax increases to fund health care for starters. I believe in accessible health care for people without but I feel pain.</p>
<p>The Bush tax cuts have been great for our family. We have saved thousands of dollars over the years. I hated those tax cuts from their inception. I hate them now and I can’t wait to see my taxes go up next year. </p>
<p>I think that answers the question.</p>
<p>I align my vote with my values- just as I do my time & money.
Anything less & I couldn’t live with myself.</p>
<p>Mathmom, UHC doesn’t always correlate to good or knowledgeable care.</p>
<p>"Cody Hall was born with a hemangioma, a tumorous birthmark that distorted the shape of her face and grew larger as she got older</p>
<p>When she was 1-year-old, her doctors in England told her parents that nothing could be done about her condition, so her parents took her to see surgeons in the U.S."</p>
<p>Fourteen years and 18 reconstructive surgeries later, most of them at St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital in New York, the girl who once had a hopelessly deformed face was flashing a beautiful smile at the prom."</p>
<p>[FOXNews.com</a> - Once-Disfigured Girl Attends Prom After 18 Surgeries - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,359161,00.html]FOXNews.com”>Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos)</p>
<p>The $INDU is used as a barometer of the health of the US Business Economy and traders are traders first and political second (outside of 9/11 where I saw a lot of traders close their shorts and go long to support the country). If you do something to tank the market and tens of billions of dollars go up in smoke, then a politician is going to have less to work with in terms of taxing incomes and political support.</p>
<p>On healthcare: what country has the most efficient system? And is mainly a private or public system?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Good question and I don’t know the answer. </p>
<p>We spend more money per capita on healthcare but less of us have coverage, compared to Canada. I remember seeing a chart comparing spending for different countries and the US was among one of the higher ones. I have trouble find that chart now else I would post a link to it.</p>
<p>Taiwan has the lowest healthcare administrative costs in world: less than 2 percent. They use “smart cards” to track usage. Too many doctor visits? They come knocking at your door. Hmmm…not sure I’d be cool with that…but maybe I could get use to it if it would help everyone get care.
[Taiwan</a> Takes Fast Track to Universal Health Care : NPR](<a href=“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916]Taiwan”>Taiwan Takes Fast Track to Universal Health Care : NPR)</p>
<p>Funny, Canuckguy, that I think our elected politicians make that choice! Different from voters, though, they are in office to serve the people.</p>
<p>In a way, politicians are much like us; they are just “better” at it. I think this is the real reason why people say we get the politicians we deserve.;)</p>
<p>Erewhon, I wasn’t in England, I was in Germany. I’m sure I could find just as many stories of doctor incompetence in the US, including a friend of mine who is now paralyzed due to a MRSA infection that an emergency room doctor refused to treat because he was sure her pain was all in her head.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>For those of us happy to give up our tax cuts , how far are you willing to go ? Have you budgeted for it ? For eg. is that going to come out of your vacation budget or something more fundamental like the kid going to a community college and live at home or going off to the state university ? </p>
<p>What happens if the increases in taxes are used to pay for programs you do not necessarily agree on, eg. UHC ?</p>
<p>Singapore arguably has the most efficient healthcare system in the world.</p>
<p>It’s a private system but there are a bunch of interesting government interventions to keep costs low. We used their healthcare system for our son when he was very young and I was pretty shocked at how inexpensive care was. Our family (extended) had to have some surgery in Malaysia within the past two years and care was surprisingly inexpensive. In the times where extended family has used healthcare services, there was no insurance. We paid everything out of pocket. Perhaps that adds to efficiency. That many individuals pay out of pocket probably encourages healthy behaviour.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I just spent one month in Singapore earlier this year and have many friends there. Singapore has a two tiered system. A public system where everyone has access but has fairly long waiting times. There is a private system with short waiting times, and supposedly better care. A friend just had an hysterectomy using leading edge robotic surgery, she paid about $35,000 USD. She said she would have used the public system and saved the money but she did not want to wait.</p>
<p>My friends said life in Singapore is getting “tough” because medical care is very expensive. Some of them want to immigrate to Australia, lol.</p>
<p>We’ve used the public system.</p>
<p>As with any system, you can get better or faster service by paying more. But taken as an overall system, especially for those that can’t cough up $35K for a procedure, it is arguably the most efficient system in the world.</p>
<p>As an earlier poster pointed out, we’re really in the realm of cost-benefit calculus. If the cost to our family is too great, most people will vote for the family. If small, principles. </p>
<p>I’ve been voting on tax matters against my short-term self-interest for years. I’d rather that our town have and pay for the best school system in the state. Some of that would be recoupable in higher property values. But, some comes from my conviction that we have a moral obligation to provide the next generation with a good education. And, I have kids in private school as well as public, which dilutes the direct benefit. But the principles and the benefits may line up better in the long run. For example, I felt that the Bush tax cuts (that were great for me) would lead to debt that would ultimately be bad for the country and bad for the dollar aand bad for my relative net worth. I’ve taken mitigating steps as I do a lot of work in Europe and have been structuring contracts in pounds and euros, where I can.</p>
<p>On the issue of health care, a friend who is a very bright guy and CEO of a prominent hospital says that all health care systems ration care. The only question is the mechanism they use to ration care. The US system has roughly three tiers – people who through good insurance plans have access to the major teaching hospitals; people with mediocre HMOs that routinely deny care to keep costs down; and people without insurance. So, we do our rationing by the kind of plan you or your company can afford (unless you are in Congress). In Canada (and perhaps England), they do it based upon the availability of equipment or doctors for advanced procedures. Our health care system is great for the top tier. It is middling for the middle tier, but likely not as good as Canada, and absolutely awful and societally inefficient for the third tier. Our average health outcomes are worse than Canada or Germany, but our top tier is as good or better than the top tier in Canada (who also have private insurance to supplement and then come to the US if they need fast or highly specialized services). </p>
<p>We’re the only country really paying high costs for drugs – most other countries bargain as a country. A drug company is told that its drug is either in Germany or not depending upon its justification of economic efficacy of the drug. Dealing with a monopoly buyer means that a drug company typically has very little leverage in setting the price. American’s willingness to pay is what gives the companies and incentive to actually invest in R&D. But, our fragmented buying means that we pay more than everyone else for drugs (and likely most medical services as well).</p>
<p>So, for the top tier, the US system is likely be best. But for the population as a whole, it is not obvious that our system dominates others.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In that case, you can put Hong Kong in that category as well. Hong Kong has a similar system, public and private healthcare. </p>
<p>Thank Shawbridge for a most illuminating post. Your CEO friend is most insightful. I have came across people who insist healthcare is available to all those who seek it though, ie. no one is denied healthcare in the US. They cite all kinds of different programs for low income people. Also I had a different problem when I lived in the States. I can’t find anyone to insure me outside of group insurance because I have pre-existing conditions, no matter how much I was willing to pay.</p>
<p>Why should you have to pick on or the other? I believe that everybody can acheive a middle class lifestyle through hard work. I believe that handouts have no place in society. Taxes are nothing more than legitimized theft and, while I understand the need for them to fund certain things I draw a fine line when they are used for programs that help those not willing to help themselves.</p>
<p>believe that everybody can acheive a middle class lifestyle through hard work
How hard?
40 hrs a week?
60 hours?
How about when you have a baby that is born 10 weeks early?
who pays for the hospital care if you are working two jobs that are just under full time so health care is not offered?</p>