<p>Thecheckbook,why should it be any different then any other person? Many people are in homes they can’t sell, have seen retirement funds lose value…this is not a fate just doctors are facing…if they invested in real estate,well,perhpas they should have stuck to what they know, medicine…</p>
<p>“I know that that calculus is unfamiliar to doctors. The concept of “Sorry, there are no jobs for you, anywhere” is not a reality for US licensed physicians and surgeons.”</p>
<p>Wait…is that calculus?</p>
<p>"That’s why much of the caterwauling I hear from the medical profession doesn’t really move me. Yeah - I agree that doctors should be well paid, based on training and job responsibilities. No, I don’t think they should be treated as royalty, or completely insulated from the financial realities of the world. which is the impression I get from some of the whinier members of the profession. "</p>
<p>Most of the caterwauling from me is because of the mixed messages I get. Is it a business or not? Is it science or not? Is it a calling? A religion? If I am not to be sheltered from financial realities of the world, why don’t I get to play by the same rules? I get that where medicine lies on the business continuum will shake out eventually, but I won’t mind at all if I can watch from the sideline, rather than in the middle, like a rope in a tug of war.</p>
<p>“That last paragraph is also being written by many teachers.” </p>
<p>I can see that srytress.</p>
<p>And like a classroom, or a school, or a school district, there is something to be said for tailoring it to the needs of the market. But the bigger the system is, while there might be a cost savings, there are more devils in the details.</p>
<p>I thought calculus was a kidney stone, gallstone or gunk built up on teeth…</p>
<p>…as for what doctors or anyone with savings should invest in… real estate looked good to lots of investors. Not sure why people with some disposable income shouldnt try to invest. Maybe it was their financial planners/ investment counselor who directed them to real estate. But the poor doctor always seems to get slammed.</p>
<p>^^Shrinkrap, post 162
That last paragraph is also being written by many teachers.</p>
<p>I am a Pediatrician, married to another pediatrician. We are NOT rich, but comfortable by any standard. Now that we will have two in college this next year (and paying full price,as we make a bit too much to qualify for most aid) we will be stretched VERY thin. But… we knew this would happen, and have been saving for 20 years. We don’t have enough to cover it all, but we will make it work. Would I trade what I do for any other profession? NO. I love my work, and think it is important and valuable. Would I like to have more of a cushion for retirement etc…? Sure, wouldn’t we all… but in the scheme of things, how many people can say they love what they do. You can count me as as one of them. One of my two children wants to go into medicine. What I tell him is do it for LOVE, not for money. If you only want a chance to get rich start a unique business, design something new, or go into corporate law. To be happy, follow your heart. One thing they never taught me in med school was how to run a business, so I’ve learned on my own, and now I think I run a very good practice-that also makes me a decent living. But it is still about the patients, and good care. I think many think doctors go into the profession to get rich. Some do, but most do it because they genuinely care health and helping people thrive.</p>
<p>^ But would agree that what is “good” for an individual patient is sometimes at odds with what is good for the practice of “medicine”? For example, making a habit of letting patients phone in and you prescribe antibiotics for a recurrent UTI without seeing them. Somewhere in this thread, someone posted that as a measure of their preferred practice .</p>
<p>I find the discussion of doctor’s wives amusing since about half of the doctors I know are wives. </p>
<p>I don’t think doctors want special treatment. I think doctors do not like people who are not doctors telling them what to do. Do you think your electrician would like it if a bunch of lawyers and administrators and home owners regulated how much wire he could use, the type of wire and how often he could come to your house to fix your faulty wiring? </p>
<p>Medicine is a business because of insurance companies and other payers, not because of medicine itself. Anyone who wanted to set up a business to purely make money would be nuts to go through what you have to do to become a doctor. In my clinic I do not bill insurance companies and everyone pays me for service directly. I employ 2 assistants who spend time scheduling, talking with patients, handling paperwork, etc… I spend about 30 minutes/week writing letters to insurance companies and patients pay me for my time. It is a transparent situation and if people want something else, they can go somewhere else. When the patient is in the office with me, they get 100% of me- because I am not concerned about all the peripheral garbage. I love my work and I am sure that, in addition to excellent training and ongoing learning and experience, is why I do a good job!</p>
<p>For my personal needs I have ‘catastrophic’ medical insurance only. I do not nickel and dime for reimbursement- on an hourly basis it is not worth my time, anyways. </p>
<p>I am glad I am watching the mess in the US from a sideline…</p>
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<p>If he wants to stay an electrician, he better learn to deal with it, since that’s exactly how it is.</p>
<p>I think the legislation and standards overload is onerous in almost all professions anymore. CPAs have been legislated to death and I’m sure we’re not alone.</p>
<p>My family has several chronic health conditions and many doctors. I don’t see any of ours going broke. Most of them have been bought out by the hospital. I spent my entire childhood wanting to become a dr. When my father told me he wasn’t paying for even undergrad, I got scared and switched my career path. Maybe it was a blessing. I wouldn’t want to practice in today’s environment.</p>
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<p>Yup, anyone can express an ‘opinion’ and anyone can criticize it.</p>
<p>I might not live there NOW but I am American, I have spent most of my life in the US, my family and my spouses; family live in the US, all of us are dual citizens, most of my friends and coauthors are American, I sit on several US boards, and I read American news extensively everyday and I vote in every election. Sorry but I think that makes me qualified to comment on US ‘happenings’ and I believe given I have both an insider and outsider perspective, I have something to add. </p>
<p>It is one thing to express opinions based on something substantive but one poster in particular repeatedly makes wild oversimpliedi claims…that always go back to her singular little personal experience if you question it. If she lost weight, everyone can easily do that. If she and her kids didn’t go to elite college, it is absolutely unnecessary and a waste of money for everybody. If she finds math easy, she doesn’t say “I found it easy” she says “it is easy for everybody.”</p>
<p>It’s tiresome. Sure, by all means state “this is MY experience” but gosh darn, I don’t know anyone but this person who seems only to grasp their own universe. We all do that to some degree, of course, but what I’m talking about is way out of the ball park. Maybe an inability to perspective take? I just don’t get it.</p>
<p>Thanks MOWC.</p>
<p>I have not looked at historical data, but I expect one would find that salaries begin to decline (or at least not compete with other professions) when formerly mostly male professions turn female. I think that is true in medicine, architecture, higher education, and now law.</p>
<p>My wife, a two-year RN, with four years hospice experience, is, I guess, a physician extender. I think it goes a bit further…the patients never see doctors, and very rarely does she. She essentially writes the orders for the doctors to sign, and “advises” the docs when they’ve gotten it wrong. She makes MUCH more than the average medical resident, and works fewer hours (though she works a lot). Doesn’t deal with any insurance companies - though her paperwork (actually computer work) load is massive. </p>
<p>We have just had a wild experience with my wife’s insurance company - I’ll tell it another time. All I can say now is I yearn for Canadian healthcare.</p>
<p>^ That’s what I’M talking about. I’d recommend RN or PA for my kids in a heartbeat. But for whatever reason, they are not interested in “helping people”.</p>
<p>“All I can say now is I yearn for Canadian healthcare”</p>
<p>As long as you don’t get sick. Bummer of a deal if you need cancer surgery or have a premature baby.</p>
<p>^ Where does this come from? Healthcare depends on the province in which you live. In ours, it’s been nothing but fantastic (and we’ve had to use it extensively). We have some of the highest cancer survival rates in the world and the average lifespan in this province is the highest in the world (above 79), women have the 5th highest in the world (at 85). We can see any doctor, anytime (far far easier than it was to find a doctor in NY!), we’d had wonderful specialists, fast surgery. No bills, ever.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of areas in the US where you wouldn’t want to have cancer surgery or a premature baby either. I grew in one of those areas. If there is anything serious, you have to go south to Durham or east to Richmond. My dad was seeing several specialists at the end of his life and the 4 hour round trips to Richmond were brutal on him. He died in the local hospital and my mom regrets to this day that she didn’t transfer him out of there.</p>
<p>“As long as you don’t get sick. Bummer of a deal if you need cancer surgery or have a premature baby.”</p>
<p>Excuse me, but I had a business with an office in British Columbia. We had employees who needed cancer surgery, had premature babies, had lupus, and Parkinsons. All of them - without exception - got better, more timely care (including integration of wholistic medicine) than they would have received in the U.S. And NEVER, not once, did they have to deal with an insurance company.</p>
<p>^That is why Canadians are coming to Detroit for treatments, correct?</p>
<p>try going to the website each province has for the waiting times for various procedures … i went to ontario to the hospital that is where my family still lives… put in MRI…average wait time is 92 days! you can enter other procedures etc. much longer than here. a few others… prostate surgery 106 days, pancreatic cancer surgery 55 days</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/waittimes/[/url]”>http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/waittimes/</a></p>
<p>and its not free… you pay a health care premium if you work, the taxes are higher level, they also have a value added tax. Have lived and worked in both systems… benefits to both…but it will be very hard for people here to adjust to these waiting times …patients are already impatient here when we have to precert a procedure (usually takes about 24-48 hours) and then book the test if approved…may be a week or so before they have it.</p>
<p>92 days? I got mine the following morning…</p>
<p>I’m surprised that it took 9 pages for the usual suspects to show up and post the oft-repeated fear-mongering about Canadian healthcare! As an American who has lived most of my adult life in Canada, and who had gold-plated health insurance for our time in the U.S., as I’ve said a thousand times before here in this debate, one of the reasons we decided to return to Canada permanently was due to the excellent healthcare available. For EVERYone. What many Americans would have difficulty adjusting to would not be the wait times, it would be, as parent56 was quick to state, the increased taxes because they’d rather be paying thousands and thousands of dollars each year to an insurance company to insure their own health coverage, rather than considering those who have none.</p>