Does the college MT audition process make any sense?

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
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<p>SoozieVT seems to have laid out my exact thoughts on the experience issue. The problem is that as much as we all would love it, it’s impossible for everyone with potential to be accepted everywhere. When it comes down to it, auditors eventually need to “cull the herd” (that metaphor might be a bit harsh, sorry). It sucks for those of us on the wrong end of the cut, but we must understand that in all likelihood, they see way more potential than they have room for. Marked experience in ADDITION to this potential would rightfully give any auditioner a leg up.</p>

<p>I also want to thank everyone again for reacting so positively to my posts. I had no clue when I was writing them that there would be so much feedback!</p>

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<p>I do understand the “concern” when one sees others with stronger backgrounds. I remember when my D was an applicant and I used to think, “geez, this is going to be so tough…she is up against all these kids who went to performing arts high schools and who have lots of theater where they live and so on” and we didn’t have that here. But I do think that those with more training and experience are more primed to be ready to audition well. And it makes sense to me that they ARE at an advantage. Still, others who have raw talent and who audition well, can still be admitted. But I see nothing “unfair” about those who have a “leg up” in being prepared. They certainly deserve to get in if they are stronger candidates. It is so competitive that mere “potential” is not going to be enough. You have to have some skill, or else raw talent, audition well, in addition to potential.</p>

<p>One other thing is that you should not focus so much on the others who are applicants, but focus on doing all you can with whatever opportunities you have where you live and be the best you can be. You can “get there” many ways. Just work on “getting there.”</p>

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<p>Millie1986, thank you for the input from the UK.
So GSA has a multi-day callback (or recall) to evaluate the applicants?
How succesfull are the GSA graduates? For example, how many are performing in major roles on the West End?</p>

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<p>Do you believe there is a correlation to whether a college program has a callback audition process with how many students make it on Broadway or the West End?</p>

<p>The top USA MT programs are turning out huge talent but very few make it on Broadway, and not because they are not good enough, or not because there wasn’t a callback audition process for admission, but because very few slots are available on the Bdway stage with thousands of talented people out there. Those who are well trained at these programs, however, have a better shot at being cast. But few will be cast.</p>

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<p>A few more questions for Millie: how many typically audition for GSA in total? And how many auditions are offered? Just one, or are there multiple dates?</p>

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<p>I think it is mistake/fallacious to think that the definition of “success” is Broadway or the West End.</p>

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<p>Disadvantage if you start late - YES! - but we didn’t expect anything but. As one poster said, if you just pick up the violin in the 10th grade, you may not be as ready to audition as the child who started in 5th grade. The amount of talent out there is amazing! The kids have gone to the summer programs and have focused on nothing but dance, song and acting for years - of course they are going to have a leg up on the rest of the kids - why wouldn’t they.</p>

<p>To the poster who said you have at least a year to catch up: VERY TRUE. We did not start the process in ernest until August - at which time I pumped up my S’s voice lessons which he had started just nine months earlier; found an acting coach to help him zone in on what he had to focus on; and then started reading EVERYTHING on the internet. </p>

<p>College Selections: We picked 12 schools! He had two which were for regualar admission in architecture (what he was interested in before getting the “bug”), several schools that were “back ups” that had somewhat new programs, and then those top schools that I mentioned earlier in this string.</p>

<p>Finances: Of course it’s expensive…but wasn’t it expensive with all the dance and voice classes already? AND it’s not any more expensive than the kid that plays varsity volleyball, softball, golf or whatever. Those kids are paying thousands of dollars to play club and to travel all over the place competing. Is it unfair? I don’t really think so (sorry) …that is life …</p>

<p>So…what I am saying is that for the new kids out there - it can be done! My husband and I both work full time and we have a second child…even with all of that we zeroed in on what we needed to do to help our son decide what road he would take for the next four years. Meanwhile my son worked his you know what off this past year keeping high grades, attending every workshop he could find, competing at State Thespian conventions/etc, and still taking on roles at the high school.</p>

<p>There has to be an “it” factor - I know that you can see one in litigators (we can be very much like actors) - it’s that special something in your line of work that makes you stand out from the others. You might study your entire life - be it acting, law, medicine, interior design, and never ever have “it”.</p>

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<p>Agree with NotMamaRose. If the definition of “success” for my kid is getting on Broadway, she is likely doomed to an unsuccessful life. However, her (and our) definition is to be working in her field and supporting herself doing it (if that is what she wants of course). So far, and she is very young still, she is “successful” because she is working solely in theater and music and supporting herself (and is happy, an important part too). She is not on Broadway. It is a possibility if she is one of the few lucky ones, but not the focal point. Right now, she has several fellow graduate friends on Broadway, but I would say she has many more who are successful working as actors.</p>

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<p>Very interesting read everyone - thanks. Perhaps if the ONLY way to be a working actor was to get into an auditioned BFA MT program then graduate into the field, I would think the process was “unfair.” The reality is there are lots of ways to get where you want to go. The path that opens up before you may not be the one you had hoped for/planned for/dreamed of, but it is your path nonetheless. Maybe the path is a gap year. Maybe it’s a 2 year conservatory. Maybe it’s a non audition MT program. Maybe it IS the auditioned BFA MT program at a “top” school. Or maybe it is none of the above. Whatever it is, you have to have the faith that you are going to get where you want to go if that is truly your destination.</p>

<p>The rejections are hard. As many have noted, this business is full of rejection, but these are harder than not getting cast in a show. There is just so much angst around the getting into college process anyway. When you add the extra angst of auditions and waitlists and deferrals and rejections - wow. And most of the time when you don’t get cast in a show you don’t jump online and announce to your friends and a whole bunch of strangers that you didn’t get the part. But look at all the rejection threads here and that’s exactly what you do. </p>

<p>I am doing my best to keep my D focused on the options she DOES have, not the options that she doesn’t. And for the most part I think she truly does see that the options she does have are wonderful ones. I have watched her over the years and seen all she has already accomplished and I know that she will make it through this, be stronger than before, and go on to be successful as an actor and at whatever else she decides to do in the crazy, wonderful world that is the theatre.</p>

<p>My wish for each of you is that you search for your path with clear eyes and an open mind and when you find it, step on it with joy and enthusiasm and the knowledge that you are heading in the right direction. (My other wish is that my D not read this and tell me I have finally lost it on CC and I am barred from ever posting again.</p>

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<p>austinmtmom, you are so right. Getting into the BFA is not the end all and be all if you want a life in the theater. There are lots of ways to get there This is not the end point but the beginning point. I think you are wise to focus on the options your D has in hand (so far). There are many options out there to pursue a career in theater. And not everyone who goes to a BFA in MT program is gonna make it anyway. </p>

<p>I know that while immersed in this college process, it is stressful and overwhelming but this passes when you are on your way next year pursuing what you are interested in…no matter where you are…go for your goals. This admissions process stuff is not going to matter to you a whole lot a year from now.</p>

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<p>Why Why, are you implying that by having a more thorough audition process, the schools will admit different students who will have more success than the students they are now graduating? I really don’t see how changing the process will have an impact on the number of kids who make it on Broadway, there are only so many parts.</p>

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<p>I also wonder if using video to prescreen applicants would be a plus. While it would certainly save many people the cost of travel and further preparation, I think it would cut some people who don’t have access to great equipment or training. I imagine that there are applicants who have tremendous raw talent who could really wow a panel of judges if seen in person. It seems that those with the most money could produce some outstanding videos that would give them a distinct advantage.</p>

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<p>Very true – it can be difficult to assess voice quality from a recording – there are so many things that can be done in the recording studio to make a voice sound better! And other factors come into play, like lighting, musical accompaniment – much more fair to have everyone perform in the same room under the same lighting, with the same accompanist, and the same time restrictions.</p>

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<p>On video- I have come to realize that my local soprano “puts out” more for the live people behind the desk than she does for her mom behind the camera. Go figure. I only just discovered this. I also discovered my camera doesn’t have stereo sound. So, no, videos aren’t so good at screening. It was a thought, however!</p>

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<p>AUSTINMTMOM: Your daughter is awesome with a wonderful personality - she also has an amazing work ethic - she will make it in this field or any other of her choosing.</p>

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<p>Firstly I would have to say that I agree with NotMamaRose, and others who have said that you can’t judge success purely by West End/Broadway. I would consider myself successful (and very lucky) if I was one of the few people who manage to stay in work the majority of the time, whether that be in the West End, or on tour, or in regional theatre etc.</p>

<p>I also think it is difficult to judge a school by the percentage or number of their students on Broadway/West End, as there are far more graduates each year than there are jobs in the industry full stop, let alone in the West End or on Broadway, or that is certainly the case over here. We have a system of accreditation here, so the ‘top’ courses are accredited by either the NCDT (National Council for Drama Training) or the CDET (Council for Dance Education and Training), and those schools alone produce thousands of graduates each year, and then on top of that there are many, many other graduates from non-accredited courses. Only a very small percentage of these are going to go into jobs in the West End. And there is also far less regional theatre over here (particularly MT wise), so basically the majority of graduates end up doing temp work in offices, and going to whatever auditions they can get.</p>

<p>Soozievt - I would find it difficult to judge whether there is a correlation between schools having a recall audition and the number of students they have in the West End, as I can only actually think of 1 accredited drama school here that doesn’t have a recall process (and that is an acting course, and it is an all day audition that all applicants take part in, so they still see as much of the candidates as they would if they did a cut and just kept some back). The dance based courses tend to see everyone do everything as well rather than have a recall system.</p>

<p>Whywhy - yes, GSA has recalls which take place over 2 days (a friday afternoon/evening, and then saturday). Their graduates are successful - many are performing in the West End. I couldn’t give a number, but they are a good school, and graduates get work. However, I was only using GSA as an example because I have experienced their full audition process, and because they are one of the top MT schools here. The others are Mountview and Arts Ed, who both see a dance audition and 1 song, then in the afternoon on the same day have their recall where they see 2 songs and 2 monologues, and at Arts Ed a physio check (so that is obviously a shorter process than the GSA audition). Central are another accredited course, but are strongly acting based, and they see 2 monologues and a song, then have recalls in the afternoon on the same day where they workshop these pieces, then have final recalls with workshops on another day. The other main MT courses are more dance based, and tend to have a ballet class, a jazz class, a song and a monologue, and they see everyone do everything. GSA spend more time with their auditionees than many other schools (and definitely more than either Mountview or Arts Ed, who are the other really big ones), but their graduates aren’t more or less successful.</p>

<p>onstage - I am afraid I don’t know exactly how many applications GSA receive, or even how many places they have. They audition throughout the year, starting in about November, and continuing through to maybe May? I believe the 3 year MT course receives more than 2000 applications.</p>

<p>It is rare (although not unheard of) to see anyone in the West End who has not had full time training. There are exceptions (Laura Michelle Kelly is probably the most successful of these), but the vast majority have trained. Quite a lot train in acting rather than MT, but end up working in MT (famous example of this would be Michael Ball, who trained at GSA but on the Acting course). I would say that the majority have trained on accredited courses (whether it be an MT course, a dance course, or an acting course), but there are also some people who are successful who have trained at non-accredited schools, and as I said, the odd person who hasn’t trained full time at all.</p>

<p>Finally, they DO get it wrong sometimes. Andrew Lloyd Webber has been doing TV searches every year for the last few years for different roles. Generally with these programmes, the majority of the finalists are trained, but there are usually a couple that are untrained. Last year they were looking for a Nancy for Oliver. An Irish girl auditioned, who had been over in London auditioning for drama schools, but had been rejected everywhere. She ended up coming 2nd in this programme (and was the girl Cameron Mackintosh badly wanted to win), and since then she has had a very successful career. But she had been rejected by all the drama schools she had applied for. Had she not done the Nancy thing she would probably have reapplied the next year, and at some point I am sure she would have got in, because she had a good voice, but that year she had straight rejections, but she is now getting lead roles in the West End.</p>

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<p>For the OP: [GSA</a> - Dates, Fees & Applications](<a href=“http://www.conservatoire.org/home/index.php?dept=23&s=419&ss=538&id=538]GSA”>http://www.conservatoire.org/home/index.php?dept=23&s=419&ss=538&id=538)</p>

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<p>I am in the middle of all this right now, and one thing I find curious is that so many fairly recent MT grads are teaching/coaching high school kids for audition programs. That seems a bit circular, doesn’t it? I’m not sure if that’s good or bad, if it just perpetuates flaws in the process, or not. I had the same acting teacher all along, and did not go for a separate monologue coach like a friend did, but to be honest I probably would have if we could have afforded it.</p>

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<p>ClassicalBK, my soprano daughter also delivers better to a live audience. The emotional give and take with an audience betters her delivery. The one thing she likes about video’s is being able to provide her own accompanist. A really good accompanist and a really good singer just invigorate each other and it’s always a pleasure to watch as well as listen. She was pretty lucky with accompanists on our college seach but some were great and some less so. The worst thing was having to sing to a tape at Unifieds for some schools. I consider that keroke. I mean my gosh, how much does it cost to provide a piano and an accompanist! We were all paying 35 to 75 doliars and they couldn’t provide a spinet and a grad student in piano at least! TOO TACKY! There I got it off my chest, it’s been a year and 3 months and I voiced my disdain. I feel better.</p>

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<p>Forgot to say the other big difference between US MT courses and UK ones is obviously that they are 3 years here rather than 4 (all degrees here are). Also, although I don’t know for sure, I think MT courses here have longer hours than over there. If you were at drama school in the UK, you would have an minimum of 40 contact hours a week, and often considerably more, plus of course any work you need to do alone is on top of that. It is not unusual for students to be in college for 12+ hours a day, particularly in 3rd year. And also, there are never any non-related academics. 90% plus of the course would be practical. It is very much a vocational training, supplying you with the skills you need for a career in performing (including how to market yourself and all the other business related things), rather than an all round education. Again, I am saying this with regards to NCDT accredited courses - university drama courses can be very different.</p>