<p>Yeah, getting an A in a non honors/AP hurts you at my school. But honestly, I’ve stopped really caring about my GPA. I still keep it up, and it’s very high, but I decided that I’m just going to take the electives that interest me and not worry about the GPA. If I get rejected from a college due the minuscule difference in GPA due to taking interesting classes, then I don’t think I’d be happy there anyway. </p>
<p>I can tell you my GPA is be signifigantly lower than other student because of some of the choices I’ve made (some I regret). Most of my friends have an honors language by now, I’m in Spanish 2 because my language (then French) did not fit into my schedule with an elective that I wanted. I then chose to switch to Spanish. Many friends are also taking honors anatomy. Here’s a situation where I just decided I’m going to take something interesting instead.</p>
<p>But like I said earlier, if I don’t get into a school for doing what I’m interested in, I don’t really care. I don’t want to be in an environment where GPA is all that matters, nor do I want a school that places so much emphasis on GPA. I’d rather go someplace where it’s about developing yourself and having the best experience possible.</p>
<p>Yes. For students above a 4.0, non-weighted classes are like poison.</p>
<p>Thus, my friend and I have begun using manipulative tactics such as taking online PE and Health since they are pass/fail online and will not affect our GPA. (They are required for graduation.)</p>
<p>I wish the responders to this post would let us know where those students whose GPA was hurt due to this practices ended up matriculating in college … especially those who were “hurt” by taking dual enrollment/college level classes for regular weight. </p>
<p>At our HS, the Val/Sal designations are based on weighted academic GPA, which makes sense. My S does get graded for his varsity water polo/swim class. However, it was truly a bummer when we discovered he didn’t get weighted credit for linear algebra and multivariable calculus, which have made his other AP classes (even including AP Calc and AP Physics) pale in comparison. Nonetheless, since those upper level math classes are ON the transcript and I’ve read time and time again that the rigor of the schedule is THE most important factor in the admissions decision, I hoping this holds him in good stead. He and we could care less about the Val battle (all 4.0+ students are recognized as Sals at our HS) and he would rather smile at an acceptance to a really competitive school.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to say this, but in retrospect, I would have advised my kids differently. I previously always went for taking the honors/AP core classes and supplementing with electives of interest. Now with experience on my side, I would probably ditch the electives. </p>
<p>If you are in the middle of the pack, it doesn’t really matter if the gpa varies a little due to taking non-weighted electives. BUT, if you are in the top ten kids in the class and the gpa’s differ by tenths or even hundredths of a point, it DOES matter. Now that we are experiencing financially difficult times, I would gladly trade a couple of fun electives for the money that would accompany being valedictorian. Val or sal = lots of money. Numbers 3 and lower = not so much. We were so naive…electives definitely hurt.</p>
<p>My HS did this:
On-level classes - x1.0
Honors classes - x1.1
AP classes - x1.2
There were only a couple of electives that were not on-level weight (computer science, calculus [not a required math, so it was an elective] and such), and everything else was counted x1.0, including electives like debate that are often weighted. So yes, your electives almost always pulled down your GPA, but the worst part was that the school refused to send out any weighted GPAs, so there were people with 105s sending out college apps with 3.5s.</p>
<p>There were a couple dozen people who took all AP and we all knew each other, but some of the ones at the bottom of that pack didn’t make the top 10% because some lazier students could drop into half AP/half Honors (or even all Honors classes) and pull As with less work than pulling Bs in AP classes. In fact, the #7 in my graduating class didn’t take any AP classes for the last two years because she knew she would drag down her GPA.</p>
<p>I know test scores are criticized a lot, but, honestly, I think SAT scores lined up with the students I thought were actually the smartest in our class. If you ranked us by that, it would be our #5, #2, #1, #14, #4, #26 in that order. People who got some kind of recognition from national merit were our #1, #2, #5, #14, #26 and two others.</p>
<p>My high school operates similarly to many of the others listed: 5.0/4.0 for AP/Honors classes, which of course infers that those taking electives are going to get GPA-penalized.</p>
<p>Many of my friends are spending their senior year with an entire schedule of AP courses, just for the sole purpose of earning their weighted points. There have been many discussions along the lines of “oh, I’d love to take this elective, but there’s no room in my schedule/it will ruin my GPA.” Taking a class for the sole means of earning points and not having an interest in the subject doesn’t seem right to me.</p>
<p>I chose to go a different route, taking only 2-3 AP Classes each year and filling the rest of my schedule with required electives, classes that I am actually interested in, or courses that I knew I could handle with a busy extra-curricular and work schedule. Therefore, I have a lower GPA and I’m not in the “top 10 percent” of my class (my school doesn’t rank). I average about all A’s and a B each semester and I feel that if the system was different, my GPA would be higher.</p>
<p>Why does this matter? I have had to forgo a few scholarship opportunities because I don’t meet that Top 10 Percent requirement. As someone who feels she is right on the outskirts of that percentile, being held back by the decison to pursue her interests, this is very infuriating.</p>
<p>I believe our private hs weights academics…
only math, lab sciences, history, english and foreign languags are offered at honors and APs…
and there is honors to band, choir, art fields…</p>
<p>Actually we have heard that any student taking a study hall will be behind the 8 ball on GPA because of 8 periods in a day (one for lunch), the kids can fill 7…and they say you can’t make the top 10% with a study hall…</p>
<p>Our son takes a study hall because he is a year round varsity athlete with 6 day a week practices…he needs that extra 45 min a day because he doesn’t get to hw until after pratice/shower/dinner with the fam–which is about 7:45/8pm to get started (after a 7:30-6:30 day at school!)</p>
<p>There is no weight for a varsity athlete–wish there was as our son is one of the top 2 in his sport at his school—He has a “gym” waiver because his yr round 6 day a week workouts are more than sufficient…So in this case, the athletes lose out…and those who have many commitments and take 1 period for a study hall.</p>
<p>The school requires a Life Mtg/Skills course (1 sem) that IF you can get into the summer session …you have an open slot during the yr
The Life Mgt course has no GPA weight at all…so if you take it during the school yr–you lose a semester…
(didn’t realize that with our older S, but will remember that with younger s)</p>
<p>The school requires 2 semesters of fine arts…no weight possible</p>
<p>The school requires 2 yrs (4 semesters) gym…no weight possible so athletes can excel in their gifting …
yet there is weighted honors band/choir…</p>
<p>Sr yr econ/gov has no weighted option but is required.</p>
<p>I guess the big strategic moves are</p>
<p>don’t take a study hall
take Life Mgt during summer…
don’t take the school offered drivers ed
take honors music/choir …lucky if thats your thing
take all honors fresh/soph yr and all AP jr/sr yr (except the required sr history electives which are not weighted)</p>
<p>My D’s school does not penalize for non-AP classes. They give weighting for any AP class taken (not Honors), regardless of the grade in the class. Therefore kids who want to increase their GPA just take more and more AP classes online. Of course a B in an AP class is still a B when it comes to calculating GPA, but the weighting certainly helps. Many of the top kids at this school have taken 12 or more AP classes. It’s unfortunate that some families cannot afford online classes. The valedictorian is not always the person with the best grades. It is often the person who took the most AP classes (and had the most money to do so).</p>
<p>All of these different systems of hs evaluation, along with all of the different systems of college application ratings, just go to show why admissions are as random as they sometimes seem to be.</p>
<p>Grades for PE in California. But, our district has an academic gpa, which ignores PE/athletics. In answer to your question, Yes. Where it really drops a gpa is those kids taking four years of music/theater, since those are not weighted classes. (Our bonus point weighting system follows that of the Univ of California for approved “honors” courses.)</p>
<p>I would think that what really matters in regard to presenting the best possible credentials to top tier colleges is that you take rigorous courses, whether AP or not, and achieve at the highest level that you can. As much as grades, teachers recommendations count a great deal.</p>
<p>For parents to get involved with the curriculum of their teenagers, especially juniors and first semester seniors, so they improve their weighted GPA sounds a lot like poor management. Top tier colleges quickly figure out who has the best academic experience, and who took the easier way out.</p>
<p>hmmm… My schools weights differently than everyone else’s school here. The only weighted classes are AP’s, and everything else is out of 4.0(Honors, College Prep, etc…). No one at my school really thinks that taking a regular class is going to lower their gpa, it’s just that their gpa would be a little bit lower than it would if they took an AP instead. It’s impossible to take all AP’s and have a schedule that works out.</p>
<p>Mathematically, the problem is the averaging of grade points, not the weighting.</p>
<p>Not “penalizing students who do more” requires the replacement of a grade point average by a grade point sum. That’s because summing up weighted grade-points (weighting without averaging) is the only numerical rating system that does not penalize anyone and satisfies some basic fairness and consistency criteria. Any system that never “penalizes students … with perfect grades” will necessarily “penalize students who do more”; you can’t have both.</p>
<p>Our school has come up with a formula for weighted rank that I believe is quite fair to the kids who take regular classes in addition to Honors/AP classes. You end up with a number that takes into account the total number of classes you have taken. So if a student takes only 5 AP classes and no regular classes, she gets 5 points in the EC section of the formula below. If a student takes the 5 AP and 3 regular classes then she will get 8 points. This is slightly more complicated but the best option for calculating weighted rank that I’ve come across.</p>
<p>The formula for determining weighted class rank is W + 6 GPA + EC = (# of weighted classes + 6 (GPA) + total earned credit)</p>
<p>I believe this happens at many schools because weighting every class and elective would be ridiculous. Anyway, my senior year of high school I took a ceramics class and a drawing class. I really enjoy art and wanted to have the opportunity to use the studios available at my school. However, because they were basic level electives they would pull down my GPA. I thought about it for awhile, tried to scheme ways of getting into honors arts and whatnot, but eventually decided that the hit to my GPA was worth it. In the end, I feel like the additions (from the ceramics class) I made to my art portfolio that I submitted to colleges probably made up for the point something difference in my GPA. Electives usually bring abilities and skills to the table in a college application that will probably work to make up for any change in GPA.</p>
<p>This whole thread reads like the Mad Hatter’s tea party.</p>
<p>Grading and ranking systems are bound to produce some bizarre results when students and their parents are obsessed with gaming the rules. There isn’t any system you could devise that wouldn’t be gamed. It reminds me of over-the-top sports parents with their private trainers and career advisors.</p>
<p>If you don’t like this game then stop playing it!</p>
<p>OMG people who understand what i say all the time! seriously, i don’t think some schools give enough credit for people who take honors/aps… there is so much grade deflation in my school that people who take all honors end up with lower gpas than their classmates who take all regular classes except for maybe one or two honors classes. so guess what their GPAs are higher than frickin people who take all honors. and it is frickin unfair cuz we take the harder classes, hence we should have a GPA gap between those who haven’t taken even close to all honors and those who did take all honors.</p>
<p>Please define “gaming”. My understanding of gaming is arbitrage, that is, attaining the same or better outcome at lower cost (getting a higher score with fewer courses, less schoolwork, etc) with the improvement coming from exploiting bugs in the system. </p>
<p>With that in mind, how do you game a weighted Grade Point Sum (not the weighted GPA or weighted average of grades, but the sum of weighted grade-points)? The only bizarre result under such a system might be an arms race to take more classes, but a school could limit the number of classes per semester, or calibrate the grade weights intelligently, so as to prevent such problems.</p>