Part of growing up is having to consider among unpalatable choices. Yes, going to UH is not the 1st choice of most HI high achieving kids, but accumulating a huge pile of debt lasts a very LONG time for the students AND the parents and to me is a far from worse evil than a school one isn’t terribly fond of. It is difficult for a teen to really grasp what it means to owe $200,000 or more, which is more than many mortgages!
If their IB status gives them credit toward college, they may not be all that many years as an undergrad anyway.
If the twins attend UH, they will be able to stand out if they choose and perhaps do internships at MIT, NASA and elsewhere, as well as exchange programs. If they mortgage their futures to go to unaffordable schools, they and their family will be paying that debt for a terribly long time.
There is Professional Engineer licensing and associated exams, which is more commonly done in civil engineering than in other types of engineering.
Where you go to school can be important in terms of where companies recruit (they may prefer local or larger schools for convenience and yield; some may have a more elitist mentality, but that commonly means the best known state flagships rather than super-selective private schools with few engineering majors). However, school graduated from tends to make less difference for experienced engineers looking for the next engineering job.
There one thing that has been bugging me a bit in this discussion: Some people have suggested one or two (or maybe three) years in Hawaii, then transfer to a mainland school to complete your Bachelor’s degree. However, if you are going to want to get a Master’s degree, then I don’t see the point of transferring somewhere to get the Bachelor’s degree first. Why not complete the Bachelor’s degree in Hawaii, THEN go to a “big name” mainland school for a Masters?
To get a Bachelor’s after transferring in any case that I have heard of you will need to spend two years at the (probably expensive) mainland university. It seems to me that if you are going to do this, then you would be better off if the two years gets you a Master’s degree.
Thus to me the most sensible option might be what I would call a 4+2 plan. Four years in Hawaii to get a Bachelor’s degree, then two years on the US mainland to get a Master’s degree. I do understand that in some cases there are one year master’s degrees, so that the 4+2 might instead become 4+1, although I think that financial planning at this point probably needs to prepare for 4+2 since that seems more likely.
My S did a summer internship with NASA which he found fascinating and helped him stand out when he applied for permanent positions in engineering. He did get 3 job offers and accepted one with the fed govt, where he’s been very happy in DC.
I mean NASA is good for some people but it really depends on team placement whether the work is any good, and the wages are… really well below average for engineering. If that’s not a problem for you, then ok, but it’s impossible for some students to accept such low paid positions (kids putting themselves through school etc).
ANY internship is going to help you get full time offers. NASA is not unique in that regard, nor special. I’ve actually seen some kids get a bit judged for it.
@DadTwoGirls: Right, that’s why I amended my suggestion to spending no money on undergrad if possible (which would likely mean going to school in HI) and gunning for a prestigious Masters on the mainland.
With AP credits and other credits, graduating in 3 years may be a possibility.
All I know is that it was a good experience for S and did give him an advantage when he was seeking permanent positions, but we are not helping the twins with their major problem of where to get undergrad degrees.
IF they go to UH for undergrad, they can afford to take low paying or non paying internships for experience as there won’t be as much financial pressure on the family. They could even do a summer, term or year at a different U god experience. If the family is financially over-extended sending them to school, they may even have to transfer back to UH to get their degrees, never mind doing any of these extra things.
It may not be too late to get workable FA from Arizona State University. They have a calculator that will give you the solid numbers based on your stats. Almost certainly too late for the honors college (which is very good) but it might be possible to get in sophmore year.
OP, if I understand correctly, everyone in the family is in agreement that UCB/UW are the best choices but unaffordable; UR might not be the best fit but affordable. No one is in favor of the state school or gaining state residency elsewhere or a gap year.
Can you try appealing for more merit/aid? Any advantage if you both attend same school?
Apply for outside scholarships.
Go to UR (excellent school) and transfer out if you don’t like it, applying to better fit/high merit schools that others have suggested here (I don’t know if your options are limited as a transfer student)
A lot of students receive good aid/merit packages and are still gapped $15-$25K and have to deal with that decision vs. a state school for less (but not free!). From my perspective your parents have advantages with a relatively high income. HELOC is a great option because of tax deduction, low interest rates and you only draw cash when you need it. If you go to UR it will reduce your equity for future aid. Can’t parents with your means, regardless of the high cost of living, taxes, mortgage, etc., make relatively minor adjustments and come up with the additional amount? Not have a family vacation, sell one of the cars or other things of value, cut back on eating out, plus can you find highest summer paying job you can…? I realize you are two times this because of you and your sister, but that also means the cost cutting is over more quickly, and your parents can probably afford some loans. I’m asking because we have an EFC of less than $1,000 and we are looking for creative ways to sell stuff, use HELOC and change our lifestyle to finance our children’s education. I appreciate how mature you are and how hard you have worked in high school. Hope you can come up with a solution that you are happy with.
@Himom, your posts are spot on.
And I think what was meant was the NASA summer internships, not a post-U job there. There are many great summer opps that can significantly add to a new graduate’s job marketability.
Post 392 needs to go back and see what’s already been covered. UR is not what we consider affordable. It needs huge loans, the home hasn’t appreciated sufficiently (it seems,) and OP is in the process of asking for more aid. Etc, etc.
Honestly, we would not allow ourselves or our kids to take on a total of $200-300k on debt to get any bachelor’s degree. It’s simply unaffordable. Why would anyone mortgage their and their parents’ future in this manner? UH may not be your top choice but top students do have amazing opportunities and getting a bachelor’s there is not the end of the world, especially if it can be done with little or no debt.
If going out of state for college is a priority, students can have a term or year via the NSE program, or gave interesting summer programs I wrote about. Alternatively the twins have to work and or take a gap year and apply to schools that will give them enough merit aid and FAid to make the choice affordable.
Sorry if these options are unpalatable–in my mind these are the options. Taking on 6 figures of debt for an undergrad degree is totally irresponsible and will weigh students and parents down for well over a decade or two.
With three unaffordable choices, the best course is to not attend any of the schools, start over again in Fall of 2017 and apply to schools that are affordable.
ucbalumnus, lookingforward Sorry if I missed some posts that clarified affordability for UR. I read that cost was $31,600 and parents could afford $60K (prefer $50K), I definitely skipped a bunch of threads in the middle, so was addressing gap for other schools. Either way I still wonder how parents with a $190K income and a strong desire for children to attend OOS prestigious schools (referring to pressure OP described to succeed in H.S.) can’t find creative ways to make it work, carry loans, and had suggestions for that.
Sadly, we have known some families and heard of more where the “kids” went to expensive Us and took on huge debt for themselves and family but had to transfer back to UH for their degrees. Don’t be those kids. It’s not worth it and you can’t do a “do over” and erase the debt.
We know of other kids who were miserable at expensive Us but gritted it out and got their degrees while hating it the whole time. The name of the school is no guarantee of a good experience or contacts that wilk help you professionally. Several of them couldn’t find jobs and just graduated with a degree and pile of debt.