Oh and Rochester didn’t respond yet. They’re most likely waiting for the missing non custodial parent waiver from my sister that they lost.
My H worked in the Fed Govt in HI for over 45 years. At his workplace they WERE ending positions and moving them to D.C.–no misconduct, positions were just eliminated. He keeps in touch with friends still working for the fed govt and they’re still concerned about those cutbacks and positions being moved.
Most adults try to eliminate loans and all debt as they age. It’s much safer and less likely your folks will need you and twin to support them if they run out of $$$$ as they age.
Honestly, taking on big debt when you haven’t even taken advanced AP physics and calculus and have no measure of how you will do in “pseudo engineering” with other engineering students who HAVE had AP calculus and AP physics, and how twin will do if she’s admitted to statistics is a VERY BAD plan.
If you go to UH with the goal of transferring to a WUE school the following year, can you use your time at UH to catch up on the math courses your high school didn’t offer? Calculus is calculus, the math doesn’t change by where it is taught – but it might actually be better for you to take the course in a less competitive environment where you can learn the math and earn A’s. Math courses tend to be graded on a curve, and if you were at a school in an engineering program where you had less math prep than most of your classmates, you could find yourself having trouble keeping up.
College can be very difficult for students who have inadequate high school prep, especially for STEM - and it can be hard to recover from a weak GPA your freshman year.
So how is this for a plan: (1) Research the WUE schools to find out which would be a good target to transfer; (2) Find out specific course requirements for your desired major; (3) Enroll it UH and take the math & physics courses your high school didn’t provide-- and make it your goal to earn A’s – so you will be fully prepared to do well when you can transfer.
Here’s a math course list from UH – http://www.catalog.hawaii.edu/courses/departments/math.htm – it looks like there is plenty to keep you busy as long you start with the courses numbered above 200.
The physics offerings don’t look all that shabby either: http://www.catalog.hawaii.edu/courses/departments/phys.htm
And I am going to tell you something else about UH-- there are plenty of smart students there, for economic reasons, and you are going to find them in the more challenging math & physics classes.
Oh, wait a sec. WHAT is the highest math you’ve taken? And physics? Specifically. And any collaborative math-sci ECs or outside experiences?
(Holy Cow.)
For S, in his engineering classes, he and pretty much all the kids in all his classes had been TOP math and physics kids at their schools, including private prep schools and all had gotten 5s in Several AP Physics and AP Calculus classes. They still took 4 years or longer to graduate.
I strongly suspect there will be many kids at UH who have gotten 5s on their AP Physics and Calculus exams as well and be very well prepared for engineering and Statistics. There are even many very bright kids from private prep schools and public schools going to UH to save money for grad school.
Ask your mom and dad if they could live off your dad’s salary, and thus could use the $5,000 monthly pension money for college expenses - $2,500 going to your college each month, $2,500 for your sister, through the college’s monthly payment.
Would that change things for UR?
(ucb and uw are still off limits even in that best -case scenario, and even with that UR may not even affordable, but the $10k difference lay suffice, especially if UR comes back with a lower cost.)
Have you had CS, honors physics or physics sl, and some form of calculus (math sl)?
With a 34 act composite this student isn’t weak in math.
@HImom : it’s a legitimate major with a strong tech background and business classes. It’s not as math heavy as MechE or other engineering specialties and it has very good job prospects. GTech 's is excellent, for instance. Graduates in this major (which has several names) take more math and tech classes than typical business majors.
OP, in the midst of this, I don’t know if it helps to think about this, but there are a lot of adults out here who truly care what happens to you and your sister and who are rooting for your success. I hope you get the financial answers you need from your dad and get them soon.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the U of Hawaii offers ABET-accredited degrees in the following Engineering majors:
- Biological
- Electrical
- Civil
- Mechanical
- Computer
http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=386
I think that accreditation, plus the chance to be in the honors program and the school’s affordability, make UH shinier than perhaps we and the OP first thought.
At the very least, it’s a good backup if the search for big merit $$ doesn’t prove fruitful.
I’m taking IB math SL (includes calculus and statistics- my teacher teaches AP stats as well and estimates that we learned 1/2 of AP stats curriculum. He knows we are going into stem so I asked to him adjust curriculum for us to cover missing content to help my sister and I better prepare for STEM majors), and previously I took accelerated alg II and accelerated trig (with upperclassmen while I was a sophomore). Math team and robotics team for stem related ECs, and I tutor math to classmates as well. Math/stem comprehension ability is not lacking
Yes this major is often called different things at different colleges. @MYOS1634 explained it well, it’s not really engineering but geared towards students who want to enter business careers in tech industry
@TTdd16 thank you 
I appreciate everyone’s input and doing their best to brainstorm solutions and alternatives, truly.
My dad needs to come back soon so I can ask him about this.
@HImom: “Engineering is HARD and if one wants business, it’s not clear why one would want a pseudo engineering degree rather than a business degree–skill sets are quite different.”
A quantitative/engineering background can be quite useful in the business world as well. And it’s not like there is one “business” skillset.
Some business roles require selling and other soft skills. Some require quantitative skills. Some require both. It’s not as if companies are hiring general BBA’s for heavily quantitative finance roles (they’re more likely to hire physicists and CS PhDs with no business background), and there’s a reason why McKinsey likes to hire engineers and PhDs in Germany (and elsewhere).
So an engineering major for undergrad followed by a business masters is fine (it’s almost impossible to do that in reverse).
But if you do that, try to get the bachelor’s for as close to free as possible and splurge on a prestigious master’s.
SL math as your highest level of math is going to be a challenge in any competitive weed out eng program,and you don’t have any physics? This is only relevant as you are so enthusiastic about a competitive entry eng program vs a safer direct entry option. SL math is SL math, it isn’t adjusted for you and your sister. You won’t have any credit to apply to math, period. Calc 1 with a tough curve might drop you in the first semester.
Oh no I did take physics, but it was just standard physics. And I meant that my teacher taught us extra curriculum on the side beyond required SL math standards to prepare us. And yes I realize competitive would be more difficult, I am trying to figure out exactly how difficult, by asking my teachers (who have knowledge of my academic abilities) if I can handle it and be competitive, and they are confident that as long as I maintain my current work ethic it should not be risky for me (or my sister)
Based on what you posted you do not need a degree in engineering. Do econ major and math minor, top it off with some programming classes (SQL, R, Python) and you will be golden.
UH Math department does not look that bad - they are mostly Europeans.
Not sure your bio teacher will know the insides of an engineering program. Going in among peers who have advanced math and physics will color the pace of the expectations in classes.
Your faculty members know YOU and SIS but have NO power over the UW or any other school admissions for the competitive programs you both want. Posters have already indicated how tough it is to get into those programs when you weren’t initially admitted into them–they have experience and have worked with other very bright students who have had dreams crushed.
The only reason so many parents are posting in this thread is because of the poor advice you’ve been receiving and the potentially horrible, long lasting consequences for all of you for getting huge debt when you can get good to great educations for no debt or very little debt.
Debt takes a LONG time and significant work to pay off–whether it’s education debt, car loans or home equity loans. Your step dad may still be paying off debt from his prior marriage, as well as the LOANS of other kids he put thru school plus the alimony. You and I both know HI is a crazy expensive place to live.
Adding to the debt is a poor idea, especially when you don’t have a good yardstick of whether you or sis will get into your preferred majors and how you will do in them. There are tons of kids who switch majors multiple times en route to a degree. Some change interests, some find they can’t keep up due to inadequate prep, a myriad of reasons.
I have never met a kid or family who says, “Dang, we wish we had taken on more debt to get kid’s degree.” Have met quite a few who wish they had taken on MUCH less!
@PurpleTitan said "A quantitative/engineering background can be quite useful in the business world as well. "
Agree completely. I majored in something very similar to what jql2017 wants to major in, and it is a very sensible major (and technical difficult, and a lot of fun IMHO). Useful as it was many years ago, it is probably even more useful today.
“So an engineering major for undergrad followed by a business masters is fine (it’s almost impossible to do that in reverse).”
Absolutely. When in graduate school I did see a few people who tried to go the other way, and it was very tough for them. I would say “engineering or math for undergrad”.
"But if you do that, try to get the bachelor’s for as close to free as possible and splurge on a prestigious master’s. "
Agree completely.
This is a proposed technically challenging major. However, it is a great choice for someone who is very good at math, and also has some general common sense and/or interest in business.
@jql2017 said “And yes I realize competitive would be more difficult,…”
To me this is a reason to try to get a bachelor’s without debt, and to avoid trying to do 4 years of undergrad in 3. This provides more flexibility, for example if a change in major is needed down the road (which I am not expecting in this case, but which is quite common for undergraduate students, and not unheard of for graduate students). Doing the undergrad without debt also provides more ability to deal with unexpected surprises, such as a downturn in the economy or a sharp rise in interest rates.
I think that U of H will get you there, and that you can do it.
FWIW, the Industrial Engineering idea makes buckets of sense to me.
We don’t need to guess OP’s finances. Her parents already told her.
According to OP’s mom and dad, they can pay $15k/year for each girl. The rest they’d have to borrow, and they intend to get it by taking a 2nd mortgage on the house.
That’s is a phenomenally bad idea. If OP’s parents could live on less, they would have said so. What they said is that they have $15k per year each.
Unless somehow funds materialize from the GI bill or yellow ribbon program, the available funds for the two girls is exactly $15k/yr apiece, plus any merit awards they can get. That’s all.
That sounds like UH for undergrad with possible NSE or WUE option or gap year with re-applications to any other school that will cost a total of $15k/year/student or less without any loans.
If they want their stated majors, they should be admitted to those majors when they start at the U.
Industrial engineering is not systems engineering, at least not in my company. IEs are planners/schedulers. Systems engineers set engineering requirements, specifications, etc.
go to UH. Get a degree in accounting or look at supply chain management. A very highly regarded coworker started in OR and transferred back to UH. She got internships and a good job in finance.
I would no more take out loans for OOS UW (and I’m an alum) than fly a bicycle. Without a direct admit and the ability to get out with no more than unsubsidized loans, you’re setting yourself up for failure.