<p>I don’t have a study handy, but I have read on more than one occasion that the earlier the drinking starts, the greater chance of addiction/alcoholism. Certainly makes sense to me. </p>
<p>I’m not in favor of raising the drinking age. I have never seen a good argument for it that holds up to scrutiny.</p>
<p>Correlation does not equal causation.</p>
<p>A predisposition to alcholism will manifest as more drinking and drinking more at an earlier age, once drinking has been experienced. </p>
<p>csfmap, I agree that the 14 and 15 year olds in that study who are binge drinking and drinking to blackout are “at risk.” I would also point out that anyone drinking that way at any age is at huge risk, and probably already an alcoholic.</p>
<p>The problem with most of these studies is they study 14 and 15 year olds v 21 year olds. Who in their right mind would suggest lowering the drinking age to that level? Nobody. </p>
<p>At any rate, it’s of little consequence to me. I’ve never heard one recovering alcoholic in all the decades I’ve been in recovery blame the age they started drinking… I’ve heard every possible age of commencement, from 14 years old to 67 years old, and every story is pretty much the same. “I never really drank like the people around me.”</p>
<p>Drinking, drugs, and the like are not as bad as pihsrosnec in a mirror, though.</p>
<p>^^Poetgrl said "The problem with most of these studies is they study 14 and 15 year olds v 21 year olds. Who in their right mind would suggest lowering the drinking age to that level? Nobody. "</p>
<p>The studies cited were on adolescent rats (who were then compared to adult rats); it would be unethical to get 14 and 15 year-old teens to binge drink for a research study. There was a mention of a survey study that was done on 15 and 16 year-olds who had self-reported heavy drinking, but there was also a survey of 772 Duke undergraduates, who would be in the age range you’re looking for.</p>
<p>Yes, thank you. </p>
<p>Here is the bottom line. If the issue is protecting the front lobe of the developing brain? Then you are going to have to change the drinking age to 25. </p>
<p>I’m sure you are right. And I’m also sure I am not wrong. If you know what I mean. :)</p>
<p>I know what you mean… Actually, I would be more in favor of the laws that were in place when I was in high school and college. The state I lived in was a 3.2 state meaning that 18-20 year-olds could legally drink 3.2 beer only. There were 3.2 clubs that catered to that age group. It wasn’t perfect - even though the alcohol content was less, you could still drink too much and that led to trouble for some, but it was a pretty good way to ease young adults into drinking and drinking responsibly. Another benefit was the 3.2 clubs. Young girls weren’t drinking with 30 or 40 year-old men. The clubs had bands or DJs and there was dancing so there was more to do than drink. They had to close at midnight not 2:00 a.m. Then the federal government required our state to raise the legal age for all alcohol to 21 or lose funding for roads. That was the end of legal drinking under 21.</p>
<p>The other argument often made is that 18 year-olds can go to war so they should be able to drink. As a mom of two sons, I’d prefer they raise the age of enlistment to 21.</p>
<p>There are reasonable arguments on both sides; but I’m more comfortable with a higher drinking age than a lower one for lots of reasons - accidents, flunking out, pregnancy and just getting into bad situations because of poor judgement are all increased with alcohol use. The college orientations we went to for both students and parents really stressed that the administration considered alcohol use the biggest reason for students not suceeding academically.</p>
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<p>Yes, I don’t have sons, so I can only imagine.</p>
<p>I know where you are coming from on this. The deaths from binge drinking, and the hospitalizations are getting to be really extreme. I just wonder if we haven’t reached the other end of the proverbial pendulum and don’t need to move back a little bit more towards the center. The 3.2 thing sounds very reasonable. </p>
<p>It is really the idea of getting these kids away from hard llquor which makes me want them to lower the beer and wine age to 19. The overdoses from hard liquor really scare me…But, I’m sure that does not make me unique.</p>
<p>"It is really the idea of getting these kids away from hard llquor which makes me want them to lower the beer and wine age to 19. The overdoses from hard liquor really scare me…But, I’m sure that does not make me unique. "</p>
<p>Poetgirl - as i’ve said, I’m not in favor of lowering the legal age but I totally agree with your statement about the relative dangers of hard liquor vs. beer & wine. When older D left for school, she was convinced she would not drink. She does, in fact, drink now but she sticks with beer after one run-in with shots of liquor.</p>
<p>Yes, my daughter doesn’t drink hard liquor. You can imagine that she’s been lectured into the ground about alcohol and drugs, growing up in my house. My daughters actually have a bit routine they do making fun of me making them practice saying “no,” when they were in jr. High. </p>
<p>But…she has been involved in a couple of incidents where a girl has overdosed on hard liquor, and one time she took the girl to the hospital in a cab. Scared the heck out of her. Second time, it got so scary she called an ambulance. Since she was sober, she felt like she was responsible. She, too, wishes the drinking age would be lowered, because most of the kids would really just have a beer and listen to some live music. Oh well. I’m sure we are all just trying to keep the kids safe, whatever our view.</p>
<p>OK.
Good luck all.
Gone for good.</p>
<p>So update on band kids with drugs. Between church, and 2 other social events, I had the opportunity to discretely relay what I know to several people with connections to the school. These are all people who appreciate my position with regards to my D, but who also know this needs to be looked into and said they would speak to their connections.</p>
<p>I’ll give it a few days to hear something.</p>
<p>As someone who is for either raising legal adult age for everything to age 21 or everything to age 18, I have looked carefully at the drinking stats. They hold fast. Not my opinion. Anyone who knows anything about these things who looks at the studies has to agree which is why we have age 21 as the legal drinking age as absurd as the situations it causes. I am inclined to make 21 the coming of adult age because I think these days it is more reflective our youth, particularly college kids. </p>
<p>As for drugs, it’s a tough go when parents learn their kids are using drugs. Sometimes it doesn’t work out regardless of what you do. There is no surefire solution to something like that. Having seen some true heartbreaks in these scenarios, I think at this point, I would pull my kid from all activities including school and have him on a very short leash. Homeschool and true helicopter parenting till age 18 or longer if I could. The longer you can keep them away from contraband, the better the chances of them beating an addiction problem. One of the few solid statistics about that mess. Most of the time, kids do find their way out of these activities without permanent damage, but when they do not, it can become a tragedy that devastates a family.</p>
<p>Kayf, </p>
<p>I did not kick anyone when they were down. This is a falsehood.<br>
I am not criticizing anyone. I never said that the OP’s child had any particular problem. I exhaustively tried to contribute what I felt was important to the discussion, when I believed (and still believe) it was needed. Threads take their twists and turns, and as they meander people add their two cents. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Clearly, though, none of this is the issue. </p>
<p>On a more serious note, something in my posts has hit home with you, Kayf. No doubt about it. Whatever that is, may God bless you and take care of you regarding it. I exhaustively tried to help the OP with the best information I had (and when I felt it needed to be delivered), yet somehow you became extremely agitated. Whatever triggered that, it was certainly not intended. I wish you well with whatever is behind this.</p>
<p>I believe that when children or adolescents bully, in person or online, it is because of some hurt in their lives. I am sure the same is true of adults.</p>
<p>cartera
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<p>I have come across a lot of the same. </p>
<p>Poetgrl presents some interesting arguments in favor of a younger drinking age. I have been pondering this a bit as I go about my business. I wonder if the age was lower, and if teens were exposed to alcohol as Europeans might be to wine, what would happen. Maybe we would see problems sooner, since everything would be out in the open? That notion interests me. </p>
<p>Regarding the age at which drinking or using begins, I believe the most relevant issue is the rapidity of brain development up to the age of twenty-five. In simple terms, the connections you damage in this age range were destined to branch out into things which may now never develop. Young people fall harder, faster when addiction becomes a problem. Even when the disease itself was not in the genetic cards, brain damage can alter mental health in such a way that it becomes a reality (much faster in the young, and interestingly it hits females significantly worse than males). It seems that people who might not develop the disease at all can end up acquiring it through early drinking and drug use. The bottom line? We need more science, that is for sure.</p>
<p>is this USD by any chance?</p>
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<p>This is interesting, but why do you think the percentage of those addicted to alcohol has remained constant, regardless of the drinking age? This is why I’m not sure how to even get the science we need. You can hardly set up test groups. But, the one thing we do know is that the percentage who addict remains constant.</p>
<p>Not saying there aren’t plenty of good reasons to put off drinking as late as possible, just that I’m not sure this is one of them. But, I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.</p>
<p>When I say science I mean research that could lead to vaccines or better medicines. Dare I say a cure??! That would be something.</p>
<p>Can you elaborate more on what you mean when you say that “the percentage of those addicted to alcohol has remained constant, regardless of the drinking age”?</p>
<p>Theoretically if a student is caught with marijuana paraphernalia in their dorm room because the campus police smelled pot in the hall, but the paraphernalia wasn’t theirs. Also if the police never wrote a written arrest for you but you’re roommate because they owned the paraphernalia and the original student has a clean record. What would the consequences be?</p>
<p>^^^ You should transfer to a school in MA. Possession of less than an ounce is no longer a criminal offense, and the MA Supreme Judicial Court just ruled that the smell of marijuana is no longer probable cause to search a car, which would almost certainly be extended to your residence as well.</p>
<p>I think you can still get kicked out of school (or at least kicked out of the dorm) but you won’t have a record.</p>
<p>They didn’t even kick me out of the dorms, so far. At least they won’t be kicking me out of my dorm this semester since its over in a week anyways. Can they not allow me to get a dorm in the Fall when I’ve already been assigned one?</p>