Draft college visit itineraries: is this nuts?

College Search & Lists
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I’d agree. We did a somewhat similar drive over Spring Break two years ago, and it was fine. I know some people would have hated it, but for us it worked.

We were coming from a good distance to New England so wanted to pack in as much as we could. We had a week and flew into Boston (then added complication by taking public transportation for an hour or two to a family member to borrow a car) then drove to NY starting with a visit to Hamilton. day after Hamilton was Vassar. Then Smith and Mt. Holyoke together in one day. Following day was Wesleyan. Finally a drive by at Conn College and then Brown. We did not go up to Bates on that particular trip as we had seen it on another trip… But since we started in Boston before going to Hamilton, I think the drive was probably not dissimilar to what OP is thinking about doing. On that trip my kid knocked 2 schools off her list, strongly deprioritized one, and found 3 favorites including two that she almost pulled the ED2 trigger on (accepted to both of those RD).

A lot of solid advice has already been given about visiting target and likely schools and about demonstrating interest at liberal arts colleges so I’m just chiming in on the driving piece. We hit snow on that trip, too, but not too much. And we even fit in a short visit with family in MA on each end of the trip and did that all in 8 days including travel in and out. Tiring but useful and with good memories. I don’t doubt that our visit to Bates from a good distance likely contributed to my daughter’s acceptance there in the RD round.

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St. Paul’s School, as a specific example, has said that its “College Advising Office routinely encourages students to think strategically about their early applications.”

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@goldbug is doing what our CC (who was a gem!) recommended. They are using what they are learning from each visit and continued research to develop the visit strategy. It really doesn’t have to be everything that just might work!

I’ve noticed that this list is evolving with a certain vibe. With an interest in Hamilton and Wes, Connecticut College might be a nice (and easy) addition, and it’s in the same selectivity range.

This is actually a great lesson in how to do this!

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I think the concerns expressed above are specific to this current possible trip under discussion.

The OP most recently listed Bates (last reported acceptance rate 14%), Wesleyan (also 14%), Vassar (19%), and Hamilton (12%). At least in our feederish HS, that means all those would automatically be considered no better than reaches even for the highest number kids absent being recruited.

The OP previously was considering but is proposing to eliminate from the trip: Union (47%), Skidmore (26%), Holy Cross (36%), Clark (50%), WPI (57%), and Brandeis (39%). In our system, all of these would be potential targets with high enough numbers (although Skidmore is getting borderline). I note others nominated some easy to combine, such as Connecticut (40%), and Bard (60%, which with high enough numbers could be a likely). I also note for comparison Oberlin was 35%.

Obviously in the end the OP has to do what he thinks is best for his kid. But everything I have read so far suggests to me this kid might benefit most from having as many “Oberlins” in the target and likely range as possible to consider, including for possible ED consideration (although not EDing anywhere is in fact a viable and common option). Of course it would be easy to do visits to Wesleyan and Vassar too in combination with those “targets”, and I agree those two reaches are actually particularly good bets to be more “Oberlins”, so that makes sense to me. But not BECAUSE they are reaches, just because they are potential “Oberlins”.

Finally, I note if the OP’s kid eventually wants to throw in a couple reachy RD applications to, like, a Bates or Hamilton without visiting, OK, sure, why not? If admitted they can then visit and see whether or not they really like them better.

And if keeping that option open means no ED anywhere, that is fine too, assuming you have that great list of likelies and targets anyway. Or ED at the favorite the kid visited. That decision can be up to the kid.

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I think your Spring Break trip is doable for road warriors, and is really worth it to see these schools of interest, with the idea that the ones to beat are Oberlin and Kenyon (and fine to skip Colby and Bowdoin, for whatever criteria you’ve decided) . For what it’s worth, I think the strategy of EDing to a high-match to low-reach is fine one, and worked for my D24. Stats in the middle 50% or higher of students from their HS who were admitted (use Scoir or Naviance for that), full pay, and being male will ultimately help your son’s application at any of the moderately selective LACs. Also, it will take another flight to a different part of the country to visit, but I still think Colorado College could be a great high match/low reach for him (don’t look at the overall admit rate, look at the ED admit rate as well as CDS stats range). ETA - some people here will remind you that your son doesn’t NEED to have an ED pick but I still think it makes sense strategically for some students.

More musings and a “hot take” as my kids would say: My feeling is that for bright kids with 3.8 ish GPA at rigorous high schools, with family ties to elites but who don’t have stats for or even interest in the elites themselves, yet have grown up in a culture where these schools are discussed, or have a parent or sibling who has attended one of these now “lottery schools,” the true safeties are not usually as appealing and those kids would need active de-programming (de-elite programming? lol) to choose a place like Western Washington U (just as an example) over a place like Oberlin. That eliminates a whole bunch of schools and makes your search simpler. The trick is finding the college with the fit, vibe, area of academic interest (most LACs will be fine for the varied interests your son has) within the selectivity range that feels doable for your kid and the whole family. Schools like Bates (a tougher admit), Oberlin, Kenyon, CC, Whitman (a highly likely admit for your son), Occidental, seem like they would make the cut using these many criteria. This got long, my apologies!

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The argument that ED is wasted on the most highly selective colleges is an old one and my answer is, “So what?” Whether it’s better to suffer the disappointment of rejection early in the process or later on in RD when you have the added burden of “shoulda, woulda, coulda” - applied ED - is completely up to the individual.

This.
And, believe me, no one has a higher regard for Oberlin than I do. But deep in the trenches of LAC (or SLAC) admissions where the absence of an engineering major is a major impediment to gender parity, many of them may not be as “reachy” as some are asserting when it comes to a highly qualified DS.

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This is not to knock the Ohio schools on your list but to consider their locations. We are located in a NYC suburb and know several kids who attended these Ohio schools. They all had great experiences at the schools themselves but were not big fans of the local areas beyond the college towns. Also this may seem minor but our next door neighbor referred to the area around his school as a food desert. I remeber he would come home on break and all he seemed to do was eat.

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This has nothing to do with Ohio and everything to do with rural versus city/suburban.

As far as food goes… My kids both go to school in small cities and report that they rarely eat out anywhere other than the local sandwich shop but even that is a special treat. They don’t have the time or money to go out to restaurants. So I guess YMMV but the restaurant scene and food available in the community is not important to many families.

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I do think the stats of the applicant make all the difference in one’s ED strategy, and Hail Marys to the most highly rejective schools rarely make sense for merely average-excellent applicants. There are many kids at my D24’s school with 3.8 ish GPAs who applied REA/ED to places like Yale and Columbia, to me that’s a “waste” of a choice, for lack of a more nuanced term. But those same students applying to a slightly less selective ED schools could have been admitted in the ED round rather than outright denied as they were, if they had decided the less selective was worthy of being a “first choice.”

After homing in on what my kid was looking for (which visits to different types of schools helped define), I analyzed a lot of Scoir data from her HS, combed through CDSes of multiple colleges, and then helped her craft her list and strategy based off this data. This is really different than throwing in reach ED app to someplace like Amherst, where based on data she had no chance at being admitted. (Just using Amherst as an example, it was never on her list, although Smith and Mount Holyoke were, and showing that you can visit a region from across the country but not every school in that region).

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I couldn’t agree more. I also think that it’s advisable to take a bird’s eye view of what it is we mean when we throw around terms like “selective”, “highly selective” and “fly-by applications”. Out of approximately 3500 accredited four-year institutions in the U.S., it only takes a rejectivity rate of 75% to be considered “pretty darned selective!”

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I agree. When my daughter and her Kenyon friends want some food variety, they drive to the nearby Mt Vernon (there’s always someone with a car in a friend group), which has a decent range of restaurants, or make a trip to Columbus. It might depend on the child, but for my daughter, her campus life (including academics, socializing and numerous–too many :)–artistic extracurriculars) has been way more important than what the surrounding area has to offer. She has lived in several European capitals, both as a child and during her study abroad, but she doesn’t mind (and actually enjoys) a rural closely knit campus.

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Can you give us an update/refresher on where things stand right now? I think your son is around a 3.8ish GPA and likely to have high test scores, has interests out of school but is not traditionally interested in tons of organized ECs, has ADHD with some related executive function issues, doesn’t want a super intense environment but wants a place with some reputational shine. He’s undecided, but among the poibilities are…? Is engineering still a consideration? And it seems like he’s thinking about potentially doing a double major with physics as one of the options and ??? as another?

Right after your trip it seemed that Denison and Kenyon were pretty tied, but now it seems that Kenyon has definitely moved up over Denison. Can you explain why? It might help others in their suggestions of which schools might be eliminated/included on your upcoming visits, or prioritized/deprioritized on the college app list.

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My feeling is a LOT of the strategizing around ED is really a pointless distraction from what really matters.

I think kids should first focus on coming up with a really good, personalized, affordable list. This is the part that takes a lot of work but can be very fun, and indeed can really be a time of important reflection about values and increased self-knowledge.

Then, by the time you are in the fall of your senior year, you can see if you have determined a clear favorite, one you are sure will remain your favorite. If not, great, no ED.

If so, then you can ask if you would want to compare need-based offers, merit offer, honors offers, or so on first. If yes, great, no ED.

If you don’t see a need to compare, you can look to see if your favorite even offers ED. If not, great, no ED.

OK, but suppose you get through all that–you have a clear favorite, it offers ED, you don’t see a need to compare offers if admitted . . . OK, cool, apply there ED.

This really is not so hard in my mind, but then a whole bunch of people start thinking in terms of having an “ED card” you have to “play” somewhere, or some such reasoning.

But you can just opt out of all that way of thinking and just keep it simple.

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Is there anything simpler than applying ED to one’s first-choice? What am I missing?

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I agree with you…and also have seen a lot of people talk about gaming ED not at all based on ‘clear first choice’.

ED shouldn’t create angst. Either you have a clear first choice that you can afford that offers ED or you don’t. If there is angst…ED not for you.

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This is a great thread, but it is now straying a bit too far… please keep it on-topic and beneficial to the OP. Thank you for your understanding.

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@goldbug This is a great thread and I cannot wait to hear more about the plans for the next round of college visits. I’m also hoping you’ll give us updates if you do a round of West/Pacific NW LACs. :heart_eyes:

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Apologies for the broken record, adding that Denison was 17% acceptance rate last year, and I think ED acceptance rate was below 40%, though I cannot recall specifically.

edited to add: the goal is to find a range of schools which the student would be happy to attend. If Oberlin is the favorite, then finances permitting, apply ED! If ED is not an option, then identify the key characteristics of the favorite and apply to similar schools that are more likely admits plus maybe some that are reachier. For ex., if Oberlin is the favorite, maybe that means Oberlin plus Lawrence University, Bard, Kalamazoo, maybe Vassar, maybe Wesleyan.

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I may have misinterpreted the first round of visits, but I thought that although son liked some of the LACs, he wasn’t really sure that he was 100% sold on LACs. If that is correct, I’d put schools that are a little different on the New England visit list. WPI, Union (although I think that’s off the list?) Brandeis to show a different type of school, size, course offerings, diversity. Maybe even add some much larger schools. I know the counselor has suggested smaller class sizes, but almost all schools have classes with a smaller number of students. I don’t think my daughter’s school (about 5000 on campus) had a classroom that held more than 50, and after her first year of calc and chem, most of the classes in her major only had 20. My other daughter, who went to a flagship but was a history major, had a few classes (maybe 3) with more than 100 but they always had a discussion group (and a TA) and once those were done most in her department were capped at 24.

I don’t know if it really matters if a math class has 20 or 40 or 60 kids if it is a lecture. The student either does the work or doesn’t.

You can continue touring the same type of school and then he’ll end up at an LAC. If he’s not finding what he wants, then look at other schools. I don’t think the location matters as much as the type of school.

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Every lecture should be discussion based not just one way Khan academy video. So it matters whether it has 20 vs 60. As a math minor back in the days at a LAC, I was the only student who signed up summer class, calculus 2 (I did that to have some flexibility for my chemistry classes.) My prof could have cancelled the offering but she didn’t and changed how I think of math forever.

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