Dramatic Discrepancy Between Desire of Hispanics to Pursue Higher Ed and Enrollment

Parents Forum
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<p>I agree with radronOmega. Hispanics are a very underrepresented race. Im a hispanic high school student ( i speak spanish at home with my mother, she speaks little english). If I go to college, I will be the first in my family to do so. Yeah most hispanic students dream of going to college and having a life different from their parents but sometimes its hard to succeed that dream.</p>

<p>It does have to do with culture. Most hispanic families are old fashioned and would rather that their daughters get married to a rich man (thats how it was in my family until my family realized its not a good concept). Most hispanic families do not speak about college in their homes so hispanic students would not know anything about it. I had to find out by myself. Luckily I have a close relationship with my guidance counslor and am performing well in school ( top 10% in my class). But without my guidance counslor and the other teachers that have inspired me, I probably would not think of college.</p>

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<p>This is a very intriguing topic. I think I have some insightful theses. . . </p>

<p>There are so many factors that it’s difficult to come up with an accurate conjecture that can summarize all, or rather most, of the different cases of Hispanics wishing to attend college and the fact that many cannot.</p>

<p>But when we speak of “Hispanics” I think we should be referring to the first-generation descendants of Spanish-speaking peoples in the U.S., not the children of these, etc. That is a very big factor that can easily be overlooked. </p>

<p>“American” should be the term used to describe most of the second-generation “Hispanics” as their parents have already lived the American experience and have thus become Americans not facing many of the problems that most often are faced by non-American Hispanics.</p>

<p>It’s definitely more of a socioeconomic issue than anything else; the Hispanic culture is far different from that of the American one and so there arise problems right away.</p>

<p>Most Hispanics are not rich people-- their families moved to the U.S. for a reason, most often being financial. That being said, they are not familiar with the college experience that rich Hispanics in their homelands could benefit from (yes, there are also universities in S. America and Mexico). And since their parents are not acquainted with the American culture, sending their child off to another state or a big institution of higher learning seems very strange, even unethical and erroneous.</p>

<p>Those are some barriers that Hispanics (not Americans) face. I’m sure there are many other factors, but I have to go study for my class tomorrow.</p>

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<p>I am a Latino going to collegeext year. All of my friends(me too of course) are all first generations US citizens and soon college students. I also think it is largely a culture issue, because i know many friends who go to community college or not at all because their parents simply disapproved. Some of them face the struggle of being undocumented and receiving no financial aid benefits because of that.</p>

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<p>I moved here when I was 10 speaking no english and yet I’ve managed to get straight A’s and get involved in leadership activities, like student council and other clubs but I am also the only hispanic that is on the top 3 in her class with one of the highest GPA’s in the entire school. The reason though is DETERMINATION and maybe it is just in my community, but a lot of the kids that go to school here dont have it. They use the issue of race to excuse their lack of goals and since their parents, a lot of times, havent attended college they feel they are expected to repeat that pattern. So many times they are just unwilling to break the vicious circle they are in and dont attempt to do better in school let alone college.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure it’s really that simple for everyone. Everyone is different, and everyone comes from different circumstances. Even when a lot of things are similar, no one ever has completely the same set of circumstances as other people. We cannot completely let go of empathy and say that everything is because people don’t care and are lazy. That just perpetuates a cycle of racism and self fulfilling prophecies. </p>

<p>Low expectations factor into it, but they aren’t completely internal. They are also external. I had a friend at governor’s school who was highly accomplished, very insightful, and a very good student (obviously if she got in). She was hispanic from a non english speaking home (when she had enrolled in school anyway). Every year when she signed up for classes, though she had completed the highest level of english instruction in the previous year for her grade, she was required to take a minimum english proficiency test. When she signed up for AP classes, they called her into the office to “make sure” and discouraged her from taking such a difficult load. She conferred with friends who had similar courseloads and found they had only called in minorities basically that would be considered “underrepresented”. Although she refused to budge on her courseload, she wondered how many kids did and as a result, could have dropped the one AP they felt courageous enough to sign up for. </p>

<p>Internally, first generation immigrant families may need older kids to help with the younger kids, due to parents working long hours. This is an added responsibility that many more established families do not have to deal with. An older child may need to work in order to make ends meet. </p>

<p>Despite the fact that my school is really very diverse, there are some fairly off-putting issues. I am in the highest math class offered, but it is completely white and Asian, no exceptions. There are very few minorities in the college prep program. Several years ago, there were more efforts to attract minorities and especially hispanics into the IB program, according to my teacher, but these efforts have mostly fallen by the wayside, probably IMO due to the current climate of animosity towards what people perceive as too many “benefits” for URMs and the very politically manufactured issues. This is too bad IMO. They say they weren’t working but they only tried for literally two, maybe three years. This is not enough time, that is just how it is. You will not see results that fast. You have to lay the groundwork, and it’s going to have to become more engrained in the culture of the school and it isn’t going to be that immediate class, it’s going to be the class four years out who show the results of efforts like that. The sad though is despite what I perceive as a lack of effort and an unacceptable situation, my school is probably about 10x better than most on these issues, which is really too bad.</p>

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<p>Carolyn is dead on in post 16.
“Hispanic” as a race encompases too many subgroups to really come to the conclusion in the article.
It would be the same as saying that Americans, Canadians, Britsh, Irish, Scottish, Australians, etc are all the same because they all speak english.
I daresay each of these subcultures to the english langauge all have diffrent expectations about education epending on where they came from.</p>

<p>Some may even argue that we Americans trail all of them and therefore we re failing in education.</p>

<p>Anyhow, you cannot compare the educational and economic expectations of a first generation Mexican student in California who expected to contribute financially to his family both here and in Mexico to a Cuban student from Florida whose family is firmly established in the US. I have no figures to corroborate it but I would imagine the college enrollment rate for the former could well be 25% while the later could very well be 90%.</p>

<p>If you don’t have to worry about your short term finances the world is open to you to pursue your long term dreams.</p>

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<p>I’m surprised nobody brought up illegal immigration here. </p>

<p>My dad came here illegally as a child from Mexico. He was very bright, would have been bound for college, but he was illegal, so his college dreams were gone.</p>

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<p>Those statistics are depressing… but sadly are true. I never realized how bad it was until I was filling out my Common App, and I found out my dad didn’t have a high school diploma. (I knew my parents never went to college, but I guess I always assumed it.) </p>

<p>The Cuban vs Mexican thing is quite accurate, at least in my observations.</p>

<p>Pretty much the only Hispanics I’ve had classes (as in the college-prep track… Gifted/Honors/AP) with were either:</p>

<p>1) Cuban (Remember, the vast majority of Cuban Americans in the US are the product of wealthy White Cubans who fled to South Florida when Castro became Cuba’s Dictator. Cuba is a Black/Mulatto-majority country… not a White one. C-Americans score much higher on tests and make more money, and as a whole are much more educated.)</p>

<p>2) Half-White/Half-Asian (As in non-hispanic white, and non-hispanic Asian. Although even with race it seems White Hispanics and Asian Hispanics are overrepresented though.)</p>

<p>3) Firmly anchored/assimilated (As in 2 or 3 generations, and the Spanish tongue is pretty much wiped out in the home. They grow up with English in the house, not Spanglish/Spanish.)</p>

<p>4) Come from parents who attended college</p>

<p>(Although my AP Spanish Language and AP Spanish Literature classes didn’t adhere to that pattern. Then again, over half were still in ESOL.) </p>

<p>When the above-mentioned kids apply to the elite schools… it is they who are soaking up sexy affirmative action. Look at the first-generation college student statistics colleges brag about. Brown went up to 15%? Dartmouth 15%? (May be a bit off, but I know the latter is for sure.) But “people of color” make up more than that! These minorities are upper-middle class kids with parents who attended college… not their counterparts. Although I’m sure several of those kids do happen to make it, but they aren’t a majority.</p>

<p>(Pretty much the same can be said about “African-Americans.” They tend to be either West Indian/Africans or their children. Few blacks whose ancestors have been here for centuries are actually at these elite colleges… and if they do, they are either not first-generation college kids, or are half-white.)</p>

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<p>I faced a similar thing. My mom, especially. “But New Hampshire is so far away! Why not the University of Florida?”</p>

<p>Money wasn’t even an issue, 'cause Dartmouth gave such a sweet deal.</p>

<p>I have a Peruvian friend who got into Duke and WUSTL… going to UF. He said they were just too far away from home.</p>

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<p>Seriously, thank you for exposing what we all know to be true but didn’t want to say.</p>

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<p>What do you mean Payne?</p>

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<p>Where I live, about 67 percent is Hispanic. But, as time passes, the blood lines thin. This delivers me to a question: what about those who are literally half and half? I know they assert Hispanic in applications. But, how about this statistic of Hispanics attending college? Are they part of the Hispanic population attending college? Are they part of the white population attending college? Are they part of both? I wonder about these statistics.</p>

<p>A better staistic is 1st generation American. And, the best would be “speak Spanish in the home.” Those of mixed heritage usually speak some Spanish at home, but are much more likely to speak English, read English books, and watch English TV.</p>

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<p>I live an area where the majority of students are hispanic (Mexican- american backgrounds). In each of my children’s graduating high school classes the valedictorian was of hispanic background. In each of their classes, the students going to the more elite colleges were hispanic. NMFs from our area always include hispanic as well as non hispanic students. And true, most of these higher achieving kids come from families where the parents have advanced educations. Also true is the fact that almost all of them are paying full fare to go to these more elite schools (schools don’t offer merit and the families are too wealthy for need based aid). On the other hand, the majority of kids who drop out or who are in the more remedial classes are also hispanic. It seems to be more a separation of class (upper/middle/lower) than race.</p>

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<p>Random thought here: Why did the poster of the thread use Latino and Hispanic interchangeably? They’re not the same thing.</p>

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<p>all latinos are hispanics, but not all hispanics are latinos… so the title of the thread works…(it’s general) and the opening quoation works as well(more specific)</p>

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<p>I see what you’re saying, but it doesn’t matter which is said first. Are the statistics applying to Hispanics only, or all Latinos? And it’s also no reason to use them interchangeably, though it’s not a big deal or difference, I’m just being picky for some reason.</p>

<p>All Latinos are not Hispanic. By definition Brazilians are often excluded from the Hispanic category, however they are Latinos nonetheless. I would know, I am half Brazilian.</p>

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<p>shut up…</p>

<p>for the sake of the artcile/discussion… they can be used interchangeably…</p>

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<p>FindFishFast – for the sake of the discussion, the terms used are relevant. Language both defines and influences behavior. I value input from the people most affected, and certainly a half-Brazilian student’s input is especially valuable.</p>

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<p>

That Hispanics that go to elite colleges (hell, even non-elite colleges) are generally middle class or upper middle class. Hispanics who are first generation Americans (and whose parents didn’t attend college) also attend college at a lower rate than 1st generation Asians or Europeans.</p>

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<p>are you referring to Central High in Phila by any chance</p>

<p><<well, the=“” top=“” hispanic=“” student=“” in=“” my=“” kid’s=“” class=“” is=“” going=“” to=“” penn=“” (having=“” turned=“” down=“” mit=“” favor=“” of=“” a=“” better=“” financial=“” aid=“” package).=“” not=“” an=“” english=“” speaker=“” at=“” home.=“” another=“” reasonably=“” high-performing=“” kid=“” usc=“”>></well,></p>

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<p>Most of my students are in the “long-shot”/long journey category (long journey in more ways than one).>></p>

<p>Mine as well, ephiphany. Many of the first generation hispanic students (this is in California) that I have worked with also have families that do not believe in taking loans out to pay for college, or do not qualify for student loans. So, students decide to work for a year or two in order to help pay college expenses, or work full time while attending college. It can be difficult under those circumstances to ever finish college, or even enroll.</p>

<p>Another issue some of my students face is that, although they have spent most of their lives here in the U.S., and have attended U.S. schools and done well, they are not here legally. While they can, in some states, pay in-state tuition at public institutions, even in-state tuition is a stretch. They also can not (perhaps understandably) qualify for any Federal or State financial aid. Few colleges offer institutional aid or even scholarships to them as well. I’ve been told by more than one admissions office at “elite” schools that these students must go back to Mexico and apply from there as an international student in order to qualify for merit scholarships and institutional financial aid – yet, they have lived here in the states for most of their lives, have little or no family left in Mexico, and don’t have the money to spend a year or two living on their own in Mexico in order to qualify for a student visa. Sure, they can apply for citizenship, but that is generally a hopeless cause as well.</p>

<p>Separate from the legal issues of immigration, it is heartbreaking to work with some of these kids. They did not ASK to come here to the states illegally, and they have worked hard and achieved much in the mistaken belief that college would be possible. Then, it isn’t. </p>

<p>Please, no flames about immigration isues – that is a topic for a separate thread. But, I do think that any discussion about college and hispanics does need to acknowledge that, for some hispanic students, getting INTO college isn’t the issue, it’s getting around the financial and legal limitations they face but didn’t ask for themselves. Both are huge hurdles to straddle.</p>