Dramatic Discrepancy Between Desire of Hispanics to Pursue Higher Ed and Enrollment

Parents Forum
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<p>Once again, there’s a labeling problem.</p>

<p>Hispanic is a culture. The definitions xiggi provided show that it applies without regard to race. (The so-called “Hispanic race” is a cross between Spanish and Native American.)</p>

<p>A white Hispanic has every right to check that box if he’s part of the broad Hispanic world. Your friend sounds like one of those Mexican families who have maintained an unbroken Spanish lineage dating back several centuries. Under the current system, by checking Hispanic, he can receive all the benefits it entails in the admissions process despite his being the son of well-educated and affluent parents.</p>

<p>Why? Because as a Hispanic, albeit a white Hispanic, he could have been the victim of prejudice, discrimination, bias, and so forth. Thus, these circumstances need to be corrected through the best means possible - blind preference.</p>

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<p>OK, xiggi and others,
I’m trying to help a friend of my son’s who is Brazilian.
So this discussion is pertinent. Is it appropriate or not to check the Hispanic box? Does it really matter whether you’re from Colombia or Brazil???</p>

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<p>I live in Puerto Rico, so I’m definitely latina and hispanic. I agree with the remark that we don’t get as much information about financial aid as americans kids, well maybe the reason is because I don’t live in the USA, our counselors just inform us about the universities here and that’s it, if we want to know about universities in the USA we need to investigate ourselves. I don’t know if all schools here are like this but my school is. I really want to go to an university in the US, but my only source of information is the internet, which isn’t half bad, but I wish I could have someone to guide me instead of going at this alone.</p>

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<p>In responce to tisthetruth,
the blunt truth is that you are more than likelly to be discriminated against just because of your Hispanic name,
It does not matter how “white” you look.
If your name is “Juan Valdez” you will have a hurdle to climb your whole life trying to get by people’s preconceptions of you.
Often you may not get by the resume stage in submitting for a job.
Short of changing ones name, just looking white only helps if you get the interview.
It is what it is. You just deal with it.</p>

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<p>You sound like you’re proud of failing in Spanish! Kinda like the people of Mexican descent that negate their great heritage and say they’ve never even been to Mexico. You should speak Spanish as a second language. An extra language is like having an extra profession. A Venezuelan friend of mine the just graduated from Northwestern was getting ready to go back to Venezuela after graduation when he got a call from HSBC in New York, simply because on top of being a good student, his first language is Spanish. He accepted a 65k first job and will stay a few years in New York (coincidentally his family already had a vacation apartment there). Spanish pays off when you have everything else.</p>

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<p>I’m not downing his accomplishment, but 65K isn’t a lot in New York; the cost of living there is so high.</p>

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<p>I lost interest in this post. It originally wasn’t a a Latino* identity thread… yet it turned out to be so.</p>

<p>*Or whatever floats your boat and makes you feel better.</p>

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<p>I’m not convinced that 98% of Hispanic/Latino students want to go to college. Figure sounds too high. </p>

<p>I attended a seminar given at our local high school college and career center for the study skills class that was comprised of many H/L kids (object: to let them know that college was possible–especially through CC route).</p>

<p>The kids’ questions were more in the vein of “Why should I go to college when I can be like Uncle Luis and make $30/hour doing construction?” </p>

<p>Heck, we have a hard time convincing many H/L students to graduate from high school! Graduation rates are abysmal compared to other races at our school.</p>

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<p>Brazil has Portuguese heritage. Even though many Brazilians can and do speak Spanish as a second language, that does not make it Hispanic because it was not founded by Spaniards.</p>

<p>Brazilians can check Latino, though.</p>

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<p>I’ll give my standard answer on this issue: a student should always complete the forms as truthfully as possible and not hesitate to use attachments to fully describe his race or ethnic group. Sharing information with the adcoms is the best way to portray a candidate’s fit to one school. Filling the forms truthfully means NOT claiming a heritage one does not possess, but it also means disclosing an existing one correctly, especially if there is a possible advantage. For instance, native indians do have requirements of minimum percentage of indian blood and tribal affiliation, but blacks and hispanics/latino do not. </p>

<p>On the precise issue for a Brazilian student, if the form (like the Common Application) does not offer one line for a joint Hispanic and Latino, the best bet is to use a line such as “Other” and describe the country of origin.</p>

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<p>If it’s an option, and on the computer there may not be, I’d check Hispanic and then put “Brazilian” in parentheses. The college can correct it if they don’t like it.</p>

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<p>You can hope to go to college, but I guess the other 3/4 do not WORK for it.</p>

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<p>Cultural Issues </p>

<p>I agree with the users who mentioned the cultural differences. The term “Hispanics” encompasses more than twenty VERY DIFFERENT countries. </p>

<p>Anyway, I am Hispanic and I can testify that unfortunately, our culture does not value education as much as others. Of course the parents want the kids to go to college and all, but I know that the typical reaction to a kid studying would be something like: “You should be out having fun” from both parents. For example, my parents have always been very supportive of me and have always encouraged me to strive for the best, but my dad himself has never read a book. LITERALLY. Of course he can read and stuff, but he has never, ever finished a book. </p>

<p>I can remember this one tyme I brought about 10 books from the library and put them on the table. They were classics- poetry, Jane Austen, Edgar Allan Poe, etc. My dad looked at them and said: “Take that crap off the table.”</p>

<p>Again, my parents have always supported me. But if I hadn’t been born with such a stubborn and confident personality, I could have grown up thinking that reading is not important at all. It’s small things like this in the culture that discourage students from performing their best. </p>

<p>Another very influential factor is the media. There are only a few channels in Spanish. For people without Direct TV, there’s 2-3. Anyway, these channels are obviously aiming for higher rating and thus offer things for an “ignorant, gullible” audience. Having come to America seven years ago, my parents do watch these things. But it’s INCREDIBLE. These channels (which are the MAINSTREAM source of information for all Hispanics in America) truly provide nothing educational. They have the news, but thats it. Everything else is completely worthless. They have half-naked woman with implants in FAMILY shows and programs VICTIMIZING all Hispanics. They literally have shows completely dedicated to women saying things like:</p>

<ul>
<li>my husband beats me</li>
<li>my husband cheats on me</li>
<li>I am poor</li>
<li>We are illegal</li>
<li>My husband is a drunk
and so on…</li>
</ul>

<p>But anyway, this might seem like it has no impact but it definetely does. All the Hispanic Media does is VICTIMIZE Hispanics and thus making them feel as if we are the poor, poor victims. “Oh, poor us! We can’t amount to anything. Not with those ‘Republicans’ around, now can we?” (I am a Republican and have to stand the supposedly unbiased news in which they literally blame Republicans for every social program)</p>

<p>I can stress how influential the media is. These channels have a social responsability. They KNOW that they are the mainstream source of information for Hispanics, and yet, they IDIOTIZE the audience. I remember this one show featured a guy who said: “I’ve talked to aliens. There are two possible outcomes, either there is going to be a great war or there isn’t”</p>

<p>And you see the typical Hispanic parents buying this!!! I can easily stand up and say:</p>

<p>“Ok everyone, one of two things could happen: Either Michael Moore turns purple while gravitating towards Mars or he doesn’t”</p>

<p>And still people would believe it. A great majority of Hispanics are poor, have to work long hours, probably do not own a computer, and have no life besides work. So what do they do? Do they research whatever information is given to them? No. </p>

<p>And finally, there’s the deal with immigration. Like another user mentioned, these kids didn’t ASK to come here. Alot of them come from families that had it bad wherever they came from, so they were brought here for a better life. </p>

<p>I myself am in process of residency. My case has been accepted but currently, they are working on the cases from 1996. I applied in 2001!!! What does that mean? Simply put, I will finally become a resident of the one country I know and admire and love in about 5 years from now. </p>

<p>In two years I’m off to college. I don’t qualify for financial aid. </p>

<p>But wait!!!</p>

<p>Don’t I get straight As? Aren’t I the President of all these clubs? Don’t I volunteer around the community? Haven’t I done dual enrollment PLUS about 10 APs?!??!?! Haven’t I???!?!? Don’t I speak four languages??!!?!?!? Hasn’t my case been accepted and thus Im here legally?!?!?!?</p>

<p>And yet, I am not getting any financial aid. Or so it seems. God will bring me through anything. But meanwhile, the future seems grim. </p>

<p>Anyway, THIS has alot to do with the current situation. It is DISCOURAGING. I myself messed up my freshmen year 'cause I thought “Hey since it’s not possible anyway, why should I try? Heck I was meant to be a failure. Hey society look at much of a failure I am!!! I can be worse!!! I can be much much worse! Just watch!!!”</p>

<p>But then, my life was changed and here I am. What will happen? I don’t know. But I am trying anyway. Despite the fact that for me, it’d about A ZILLION TIMES HARDER, I’m still trying. </p>

<p>But then, I am stubborn. I am confident. If I wasn’t born with this personality I would have given up. I wouldn’t have even tried. But people have different personalities… And that’s what’s happening with most Hispanic students today. :(</p>

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<p>^ Excellent insights, and excellent post. People like you keep America great. I hope that people in the residency pipeline will finally receive timely reviews, and students like you will become eligible for financial aid. Anything less is so unfair.</p>

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<p>Not speaking Spanish I had no idea Hispanic TV was victimizing. Do you have any idea why this is so?</p>

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<p>I noticed that the original article cited in this thread was a press release by an organization promoting college educations among Hispanics. I wonder what the methodology was for the survey, as there is an astoundingly high drop-out rate among Mexican immigrants and their children in NYC and LA. Were these students included in the survey, or were only HS grads included?</p>

<p>From the NYTimes in a recent article:</p>

<p>"Census data show that Mexican immigrants in New York have the least schooling, the lowest per-capita income and the lowest rate of English proficiency of the city’s immigrant groups. But Ms. Galvez, who teaches at New York University, said she had been impressed by the extraordinary cultural strengths and swift adaptation of these young parents.</p>

<p>“Families are deciding to have, as they say, the number of children they can care for,” she said. “Earlier, it was about having as many children as you could possibly feed because you needed them for agricultural labor. Now, it’s not just about giving them food, it’s about communication and education and love.”</p>

<p>For women like Hanet Cortes, 26, a Mexican mother with a daughter born in New York and another due soon, schooling is a primary concern. “An American diploma is worth something all over the world, while a Mexican diploma is worth nothing here,” said Ms. Cortes, who also is a patient at Lutheran Medical Center.</p>

<p>Educating such children to their potential will not be easy, said Robert Courtney Smith, a sociologist and author of “Mexican New York: Transnational Lives of New Immigrants.”</p>

<p>“On the one hand, Mexicans are the hardest-working people I have ever met, and many children of immigrants are jumping into the middle class in one generation,” Professor Smith, who teaches sociology and immigration studies at Baruch College, wrote in an e-mail message. “On the other hand, Mexicans will present a particular challenge for the educational system.”</p>

<p>Nearly half of Mexicans in the city aged 16 to 19 are neither in school nor high school graduates, he said. At age 14, about 95 percent of boys are in school, but by age 18 or 19, the number is down to 26 percent. For girls, it falls to 31 percent from 96 percent. But the city’s Mexican population — conservatively estimated at about 350,000, including children born here — is so dispersed that there is no political leader focused on this issue, Professor Smith added.</p>

<p>“What is desperately needed is some targeted intervention that will help fight the high dropout rate among Mexicans,” he said. “Because it is the first large cohort of young Mexicans to come of age in New York, we can make a huge difference if we intervene now.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F2081EFF3A540C778CDDAF0894DF404482[/url]”>http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F2081EFF3A540C778CDDAF0894DF404482&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>“In two years I’m off to college. I don’t qualify for financial aid.”</p>

<p>Why don’t you qualify for any financial aid?</p>

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<p>Per Spanish TV, there was a program in the recent past that was a contest judging which young lady had the most charming backside. I thought the program was appalling, but it was the favorite show of one of my employees, a young woman who is of Hispanic/Latina origin.</p>

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<p>He may not qualify for aid because he may not be poor. There seems to be a bias in that all minorities, particularly Hispanics, are poor, and that goes doubly so for immigrants. But that isn’t necessarily true. I live in a very wealthy area, though I’m on the bottom edge of the socioeconomic bracket. A few of my good friends are hispanic. They all own 50 inch plasma tv’s. See my point?</p>

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<p>Well to clarify, the implication of the post I responded to was that he doesn’t qualify for aid (which I find amazing he knows already since he has 2 years before applying). But he never specifically said why he didn’t. It is likely it is because he an international (one of my best friends immigrated here from China in middle school, and despite having been accepted to booth Cornell and Dartmouth, only Dartmouth offered him aid (though it should be noted he has a full ride minus board, so it worked out). While its true non residents don’t qualify for federal aid, and “internationals” frequently get turned away for fin. aid entirely, that does NOT mean a blanket “I don’t qualify for aid” statement is even close to valid. Such a statement is itself self-victimization like he was raging against. He rightfully claims it will be much, much harder for him, and I commend his continued efforts. But there are many scholarships available, particularly for those at a socioeconomic disadvantage and those from minority communities, and more still from Catholic organizations.</p>

<p>Your point about cigarettes is one I was and am aware of, and is clearly very tragic, though completely unrelated to the my post. I was simply illustrating that not all Hispanics are poor, as there seems to be an assumption on this board, just as not all Jews are rich. And while it’s unfortunate that the poor of this country are unwilling to follow or ignorant of the ways to avoid staying impoverished (quitting smoking, for instance), that shouldn’t necessarily stop their children from breaking out of that cycle if the Child is so compelled.</p>

<p>Also because it’s relevant, to the topic at hand, I’ll state as other’s have that Stand and Deliver addresses a potential cause for this situation quite artfully.</p>

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<p>I don’t qualify for federal financial aid because of my immigration status. As mentioned in my post, even though my case HAS been approved and it’s just a matter of about 5 years and thus, I’m a legal immigrant, a “notice of approval” is not enough and does not make me eligible for financial aid from the government. Neither does a “tax payer” number instead of a SSN. </p>

<p>However, I know there are private scholarships that I could apply to. Unfortunately, very few (if even any) of them offer such huge quantities as a federal grant would. </p>

<p>My parents have an income of less than 20 grand per year (they wash cars for a living) again, due to us been in waiting list. I am not complaining because I lead a very comfortable life and my parents have worked so hard to give me what I have needed for my education. With God’s blessing, my family and I have lead a very happy life.</p>

<p>However, with that kind of income and my academic achievements, I should be getting federal financial aid. Again, God leads my way and I know he can pull anything off, but I do know of many Hispanic student who are incredible high achievers and don’t get any type of financial aid. I know of one in particular who got Straight As all throught high school, was a brilliant guitar player, won all these math competitions, and he’s working for minimum wage so that he can pay his two courses in the local community college (which is all he can afford) because he didn’t qualify for financial aid. While students of lesser academic achievements got a full ride in state universities. </p>

<p>Because so many Hispanic students are going through the same thing, I find that it is so discouraging that it truncates the aspirations of the “weak” ones. I fear they see so many obstacles ahead of them that they just shrug and say: “Why should I even bust my butt off for four years when I will end up working minimum wage to pay for community college because I don’t qualify for financial aid?”</p>

<p>And thus, they do just that and don’t make an effort & end up where they end up. </p>

<p>But then, this is a world of the strong ones.</p>