I guess I wouldn’t set this expectation going in. Or at least I wouldn’t put it that way… I’d suggest to my kid that someone (them or someone else) should organize a written plan of who is doing what and when, and track that the work is getting done at a minimum. They may have a mixture of kids in groups – but I sure would hate for my kids to go into every project being pretty sure that the others would be “sorry” participants. Kids are cynical enough these days. I might tell them to “trust but verify”, but not just “don’t trust at all”.
Don’t do this in a moment of anger; if you do it at all, take the time to think it through as dispassionately as you can.
As a teacher, I respectively disagree that this is necessarily the case. It may be, in your case, of course, but it’s far from axiomatic.
@mathyone I said in my original post that it’s really not the school’s fault that my daughter isn’t happy. The school just isn’t a good social fit for her at all. She has made few friends, and just hates the place with a passion. In college, one isn’t forced into a building around the same few hundred people all day, with a requirement that you do exactly as you are told for eight hours every day.
We moved here six years ago. For whatever reason my son had an easier time of things, although his first couple of years were kind of tough.
@intparent My comments to my son on the group project were when he was in ninth grade and taking a college course. I warned him that he couldn’t rely on all of the college students to do their work, because somebody was likely to just not do their part, which ended up happening. He did the other person’s work, but when it came time to grade his fellow members, he didn’t hesitate to zap the non-productive team member.
This summer he’s taking a class that has a lot of high school students who are attending summer college. One of his team members didn’t email everyone some measurements that they had taken that day for their project. I asked him if he had gotten their phone number: Of course not. I then asked him how he had not learned from his earlier team project experience. His response:
“I thought I could rely on them because they were high school students and not in college.”
Is she likely to make many friends in an online class or in cc where she will be very much younger than the other students? Does she have many friends who are significantly older than she is? If she just goes to classes at the cc and then leaves, is she likely to make many friends? College classes in my experience are quite a bit less social than high school classes. This still sounds to me a like a problem that isn’t likely to be solved. And her hatred of the school sounds like blaming the school for her problems.
Is she well involved with activities? Both my shy and social kid made most of their high school friends in their activities, more than in classes.
What are the negatives (to you and daughter) on doing the virtual hs/dual enrollment at the cc route? It sounds like it might be what she’s looking for, not graduating early but still not having to go to high school. If the only negative is that the diploma won’t say “George Washington H.S.”, well, your wife is just going to have to get over that. If she doesn’t like school activities, clubs, music, sports? Don’t go.
Around here that is one form of “Homeschooling”. Is this a public or private online school.
I would make sure that you can do mostly dual enrollment using the online school. They may also have rules about how many units you can take with them and how many they can do through dual enrollment. My son “homeschools” here in California through a public charter, which has online as an option but we also have live classes, dual enrollment, parent led, homeschool campuses, and teacher led. CA is unique with public homeschooling, however. Most states are not as rich with options.
Our “homeschool” charters do have limits on what they will allow with dual enrollment. It may not be any better than what you are experiencing. I would double check with the online high school.
Also make sure your online high school is regionally accredited (if it is not public) so that your credits will transfer back to the high school if she returns.
Oof, sorry: respectfully
I think it’s important to spend some time figuring out what that reason was. It may give you some insight into why your daughter is struggling socially.
I also think I know my kids best, but I certainly don’t know them completely. It’s always good to hear how other people relate to your kid, even if it’s not positive.
Maybe I can offer some of my past experience? My brother and I went to the same high school. While he wasn’t “popular” he had plenty of friends and enjoyed high school. I on the other hand not so much. I had a speech problem and it took many years of speech therapy to get me where I should have been. So I didn’t have much of a chance since my bullies from elementary school followed me all the way to high school.
I was also “weird” and hung out with the drama kids. Also by the end of my senior year, one of my best friends started to stalk me and threaten me. He also did some other crazy things, luckily I was able to get my schedule switched around so I wouldn’t be near him. In general high school sucked for me but college was amazing. I just graduated and I am going to grad school.
I would say if this will be her senior year maybe she can grin/bear it and never look back when she graduates (what I did). But if she would has this year and next year, maybe try out the other options? She could always come back to the public high school if it doesn’t work out. At the time I wish my parents switched me to a different high school, now I’m ok with it. I’m still avoiding and high school reunions though!
Not here to give parental advice, just the perspective of a former online student:
Do make sure she can take all/most of her classes DE. I live on the west coast, so I’m obviously unfamiliar with Mississippi homeschooling laws but do look into that. Where I’m from, the state hates online schools because it takes funding away from the district I live in, so they put some arduous requirements on the school and students.
My school did allow dual enrollment in all college classes. Credits were free, local bus was free with student id, all my parents would have had to pay for was books. However, they did not let me dual enroll because “it would be inappropriate” for me to be around adults at 16. There were problems with my school, so my parents pulled me out and I got a GED at 17. I attend my local CC now at 20 and there are LOTS of high school students. If you do this, the social aspect is not going to get any better if she has to or does come home immediately after classes are over. All of my college friendships have been formed by hanging out at school after class.
@mathyone You ask some good questions and I don’t know all of the answers. I do believe my daughter has created some of her own problems, but they are still problems, nevertheless. Her school is a difficult school socially; I’m not sure what the deal is.
My daughter only has a few friends, and last year she didn’t have any classes with them. So there is no reason she can’t maintain those friendships. One good friend will be a college freshman this fall, and I suspect they may be able to eat lunch together and hang out some.
@PrivateConundrum @LKnomad I think my daughter will be able to complete all but one of her classes through dual enrollment, and have a letter from the online high school stating as much. The one online class is “taught” or managed by one of her favorite teachers from middle school. I’m not so concerned about her taking a single online class, but I didn’t want her to try to finish up with only online classes. The school is accredited, and they have an agreement with the local high school, as many students attend for one year and then go back.
We anticipate that my daughter may get a job for about 15 hours a week, and she may do a certain amount of hanging out on campus. Dual enrollment students are considered “freshmen,” and in fact the only people who will know of her DE status are those in the DE office and perhaps the registrar’s office. So she should have some opportunities to maintain contact with her current friends and to make new ones.
I have to wonder if she doesn’t like high school because of the other kids and you then use this online/dual enrollment. Where is she going to meet other kids her age? I would think that the dual enrollment kids would mostly be kids from her high school. Have you contacted a local homeschooling group in your area? Maybe there are kids that are home schooled that she could connect with. Just a thought. Otherwise I would think the next 2 years could be pretty lonely.
@MichiganGeorgia It’s only going to be one year, as she will graduate a year early in May 2017. She only needs 5 Carnegie unites, including English III and IV. I think she can maintain her current friendships, and as I mentioned in another comment, one is actually starting college this fall. They all have cars and are mobile, so it’s not like they rely on on school as their social meeting point.
If I were in your situation, I would meet with the GC and ask whether she can be placed in the same classes with these few friends wherever possible. I think a kid’s outlook on school can be hugely influenced by whether their friends are in their classes, especially for a kid who has few friends and doesn’t make more easily. One year in middle school my shy kid was placed in what was really the wrong class for her which created some minor scheduling issues, but she insisted she loved this class (in her least favorite subject) and stubbornly refused to be switched and I was baffled. Eventually I learned that two of her few friends were in this class. Academically, it was not a big deal and she stayed in that class. It was the only year she said she enjoyed that subject.
They may well say, it’s against school policy. But perhaps if you explain the extent of her misery and that you are considering pulling her out of the school because of social issues, that might help.
I would not pull a kid because she’s having trouble adapting socially. High school can be a brutal experience for some kids, but learning how to deal with the Reginas and come out with your sense of self intact is going to serve you well as an adult. There’s so much crap that flies at you in high school-if you don’t learn to dodge it and fling it back, it’s going to be challenging in a work environment when Regina is your boss. You keep saying stuff like
Dude, FIND OUT WHAT THE DEAL IS. I’m sorry for shouting, but you’re coming at the problem with a cannon rather than a scalpel. Get surgical on this problem.
I’m confused. If she can maintain friendships with her small number of HS friends while taking college classes DE…why wouldn’t she be able to maintain the SAME friendships while completing HS at her school?
Or is II that you want her to take more DE courses than the school allows juniors to take? It’s sounding like THAT is the HS problem…not your daughter’s ability to maintain a couple of friendships.
This: “Dude, FIND OUT WHAT THE DEAL IS. I’m sorry for shouting, but you’re coming at the problem with a cannon rather than a scalpel. Get surgical on this problem.”
This is especially important if your plan, as I understand it, is to simply send her back to that same HS if the DE “doesn’t work out”. If she’s being bullied, taking her out then sending her back could be a recipe for disaster. But since you appear to have NO IDEA why your D is unhappy, it could be anything.
D went to a very small, niche HS that lacked music, sports, most EC’s and certain classes. Kids were sometimes unhappy about this but found a number of solutions, including DE, taking the class desired at their “home high school” joining EC’s at other HS (this was allowed in that district), taking the desired class online or a community college but not for DE, and sometimes not even for credit (think advanced art or music). Maybe there’s some interest your D has that her HS doesn’t offer, and you need to find that option somewhere. Maybe she just need a “tribe” of kids with a similar interest and she could find that outside of school altogether (my D has several outside interests met in her church and dance classes, for example).
But you won’t know the best approach until you know why your D is flailing. It may not have much to do with the school at all, in which case, pulling her and sticking her someplace else without even knowing that won’t solve the problem.
This
I disagree with this. As an adult, you can choose to accept the situation or you can go elsewhere. A 16-year-old has limited options, and none that are really under their control. A kid who’s having a “brutal” experience shouldn’t have to just suck it up and take it. Evaluating options and choosing a better fit is exactly what an adult would do. I don’t see anything wrong with making that option available to teenagers too.
@MotherOfDragons If I speak to local people about the school being difficult socially, they know what I’m talking about. We’ve spoken with people at the school, and they fully understand what we’re talking about. It’s just a very difficult school for some students. One of my daughter’s classmates – the daughter of a college friend of mine – was chronically absent during ninth grade. In 10th grade she went to boarding school and her father told me it’s the best decision he ever made. For many students it’s just not a happy place.
@thumper1 It is my belief that the high school is a toxic environment for my daughter. For that reason I wanted her to take three dual enrollment classes and two high school classes. This is 4.5 Carnegie units, so half a unit more than a full load. Yes, I wanted her to take three college classes, but yes, I also wanted her to spend less time at the high school, while still being able to spend two or three periods a day there. I thought my request was not only reasonable, but that the school was required to comply by law. (I had issues with this district when we first moved here; they do not care about the law).
As a follow up, we just met with the dual enrollment/online high school people today (they are one and the same). The woman in charge of dual enrollment is also in the university/community orchestra, and encouraged my daughter to sign up for an orchestra elective. I think she will. If she does so she will be taking three college classes, plus orchestra, plus one online class. My daughter is looking forward to the school year, and I am, too. I am really irritated by the refusal of the high school to cooperate, but I feel we’ve taken lemons and made lemonade.
I still don’t understand why a student who is making adequate progress towards graduation must be controlled in all aspects of their life by their high school.