Duke 2014 Hopeful

slik_nik · June 11, 2009, 2:27pm

@frenchhorngirl: I do admit that the student body is SLIGHTLY better at HYPSM because these universities are pretty much impossible to get into. You have to basically walk on water to get into these universities, which means better caliber of students.

However, while I admit that the student body might be of slightly higher caliber than at the other top universities, you missed my point. There is not much difference between the student body at Stanford versus the student body at Duke, Rice, Northwestern, or WashU; the differences are negligible. In fact, many seniors turn down HYPSM for these universities. You are making it sound like that the student body is of tremendous higher caliber at a place like Stanford versus a place like Duke, and that is simply not true.

Finally, the reason people think HYPSM is better is because they like following the status quo. Applicants get the illusion from parents and the media that these universities are better, but since when are our parents and the media is always right? These are definitely the most prestigious universities in America, but since when does prestige= better? BTW, do not use U.S. News rankings to back up your claim because those are tremendously flawed.

frenchhorngirl · June 11, 2009, 2:49pm

“There is not much difference between the student body at Stanford versus the student body at Duke, Rice, Northwestern, or WashU; the differences are negligible.”

um, how would you know this?

“You are making it sound like that the student body is of tremendous higher caliber at a place like Stanford versus a place like Duke, and that is simply not true.”

again, how would you know this?

U.S. News is tremendously flawed? what makes you say that? U.S. News it the most well known and most legitimate ranking source in the country. Flawed? i don’t think so. if it is, find a better or more legit ranking magazine that has Duke above HYPSM then. and I’m talking about OVERALL ranking, not ranking in a specific subject like “philosophy of biology.” again, there’s a reason HYPSM is ranked better than Duke in not just U.S. News but many other magazines, because they are better.

and you can see how U.S. News calculates their rankings in this website. [How</a> We Calculate the Rankings - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html?PageNr=2]How”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html?PageNr=2)

frenchhorngirl · June 11, 2009, 2:50pm

*in the country AND in the world.

cdz512 · June 11, 2009, 5:54pm

frenchhorngirl, I believe you have fallen into the misconceived realm of ranking. I bet you half of the people on CC agree that ranking means little. Even CC comments on the ranking saying:

<ol>
<li>Among students who use them, the value of the newsmagazine rankings in college choice is far lower than that of other major sources of information and advice.</li>
<li>Students use newsmagazine rankings of colleges far less than other major sources of information that influence college choice.</li>
<li>The overall impact of newsmagazine rankings on college choice is among the lowest of all major sources of information and choice.</li>
<li>Most students who have not read the rankings consider them essentially worthless-of lower value than other communications tools.</li>
<li>While overall awareness of the U.S. News rankings is higher than that of other sources of information, such as Peterson’s and Barron’s guides, the perceived reliability of the information in U.S. News is rated lower.</li>
<li>For students who use the rankings, they serve largely to validate and inform pre-existing college interest and evaluations.</li>
</ol>

They even add on saying: “students and parents start out using the magazine rankings to inform themselves, but in the end these rankings have little overall value in the final selection process” and “the U.S. News & World Report…make[s] a big splash at first, with little real, residual value in the final analysis”

[US</a> News College Rankings](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_rankings/USNews.htm]US”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_rankings/USNews.htm)

Frankly I don’t see why you worship the rankings. If I conduct a poll on CC, I bet you the majority of the people find ranking as a useless and just another way to make profit.

There is a reason why when it comes to employment, no one cares about how good the university you went to as a whole is like, the employer looks at how good the school’s program in that subject is. Take Biomedical Engineering/Bioengineering, if you put a Harvard graduate in BME with a student from Rice BME and have them both apply for a job, I bet you the Rice person will get the job. Same goes with Duke and Yale BME and don’t get me wrong with Stanford BME against Duke BME and JHU BME. If you put a Duke BME against a JHU BME and Rice BME (BioE) the choice really gets hard. Lets not forget UMich BME, Northwestern BME and Georgia Tech BME. I bet you that no one is going to select a Harvard BME Engineer over a Duke BME Engineer just because Harvard is “ranked” first. I mean seriously no employer is going to care how good the college as a whole is when they hire people. And if you are going to argue about who cares about employers, isn’t the goal of college is to help you get a job. Frankly I don’t think many who wants to get a BME would want to go to Harvard for BME, especially when their chances of getting a job after Rice University is way better than Harvard.

If you would like to know, Stanford’s middle 50% of acceptance:
SAT Critical Reading: 650 - 760 
SAT Math: 680 - 780
SAT Writing: 670 - 760
ACT Composite: 30 - 34

Duke middle 50%
SAT Critical Reading: 660 - 760 (Pratt Engineering: 680-760)
SAT Math: 680 - 780 (Pratt: 740-800)
SAT Writing: 660 - 760 (Pratt:670-760)
ACT Composite: 29 - 34 (Pratt: 32-34 ACT)

And I want to throw this out there but Rice University middle 50%

SAT Critical Reading: 650 - 750
SAT Math: 670 - 780
SAT Writing: 640 - 750
ACT Composite: 30 - 34

Seems to me that they pretty much rank up to be the same with the exception of Duke-Pratt School of Engineering which has a higher SAT/ACT. So I would like to tell you just because they has a smaller acceptance percent doesn’t mean that they accept students with higher caliber.

What makes Stanford better than Duke and Rice?
Ranking? (No I think the former president of Stanford dispelled that and says ranking is insignificant when it comes down to individual numbers–if you still haven’t learned)
Acceptance? (no because Stanford, Dukes and Rice SAT/ACT score are extremely similar)
Athletics? (no because they all have teams that are tremendously amazing)
Social Life? (definitely no because I think the students at Duke and Rice has amazing social life and so does Stanford)
Undergrad size? (no Duke and Rice are pretty much the same in the number of undergrads 6000-7000)(Duke actually has a smaller size 6000-6500 when Stanford has a 6500-6700, Rice has a extremely small one 3000+ and Rice has great education because of that, Rice has a 5:1 student faculty ratio)

[College</a> Search - Stanford University - The Farm - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)
[College</a> Search - Duke University - Duke - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)
[College</a> Search - Rice University - Rice - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

Oh just to let you know there are people who get rejected from Duke that get into MIT and Stanford.

frenchhorngirl · June 11, 2009, 7:13pm

i see you still do not see the point. everything you have said so far supports the fact that Stanford is better, except for a few errors.

"Acceptance? (no because Stanford, Dukes and Rice SAT/ACT score are extremely similar) "

are you serious? you obviously do not realize that SAT/ACT scores are not all that determines acceptance into these elite colleges – maybe it is mainly what you need for Duke, but I know that for a fact for Stanford, they really don’t care that much about your scores but you’re unique talents, interests, accomplishments, and most of all, PASSION. Scores get your foot in the door for Stanford, but to actually get in you need a LOT more, which is what makes the Stanford student body different than the Duke student body. posting those statistics about the average ACT/SAT for Stanford/Duke/Rice proves nothing. admissions are not based solely on SAT/ACT stats.

“Oh just to let you know there are people who get rejected from Duke that get into MIT and Stanford.”

wow? again, you obviously have not done much research. just because X university rejects a certain student who gets accepted into Y university does not mean that X university is better than Y. There are so many factors that contribute to that. For example, yield. You know why WashU waitlisted so many “overqualified” applicants this year? because they felt those applicants would get into a better school like HYPSM and not go to WashU, thus decreasing their yield and lower their rankings. Duke does the same thing too to have a good yield. They could have just rejected your friend because he/she didn’t show much interest or seemed qualified enough to go to a better school. The point is, just because a student might get accepted a MIT and not Duke or WashU doesn’t mean Duke is better. that statement is tremendously flawed.

“if you put a Harvard graduate in BME with a student from Rice BME and have them both apply for a job, I bet you the Rice person will get the job.”

again, what? i don’t care if your going to bet that the Rice person will get the job, that has nothing to do with this. First of all, there are other factors to getting a job other than just what college you went to. most students in engineering go on to get a masters degree in graduate school AND THEN find a job. and if you want to play the betting game, I bet a harvard undergraduate will have a much better chance of getting into MIT for grad school than someone from Rice. But there’s no point in your betting game because betting is an incredibly useless and subjective thing to do.

I’m going to use the following you said to support my argument. read further…
"1. Among students who use them, the value of the newsmagazine rankings in college choice is far lower than that of other major sources of information and advice.

<ol>
<li>Students use newsmagazine rankings of colleges far less than other major sources of information that influence college choice.</li>
<li>The overall impact of newsmagazine rankings on college choice is among the lowest of all major sources of information and choice.</li>
<li>Most students who have not read the rankings consider them essentially worthless-of lower value than other communications tools.</li>
<li>While overall awareness of the U.S. News rankings is higher than that of other sources of information, such as Peterson’s and Barron’s guides, the perceived reliability of the information in U.S. News is rated lower.</li>
<li>For students who use the rankings, they serve largely to validate and inform pre-existing college interest and evaluations.</li>
</ol>

They even add on saying: “students and parents start out using the magazine rankings to inform themselves, but in the end these rankings have little overall value in the final selection process” and “the U.S. News & World Report…make[s] a big splash at first, with little real, residual value in the final analysis” "

Wow! so it sounds like most students really research deeply into the colleges they want to go, and use information other than rankings? of course, i absolutely agree. students go on admit visits, become obssessed with CC, buy review books, go to *****.com, etc etc…

Oh, lookie here. it seems like this website shows that 92% of people accepted into Duke and Stanford choose Stanford!

[The</a> New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html]The”>The New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices)

and i agree, students don’t just rely on rankings, they really do research a lot to make sure they choose the BEST university, which in the case of Duke and Stanford, is Stanford.

slik_nik · June 11, 2009, 11:25pm

@frenchhorngirl:

You are using logic to attempt proving an irrational statement. Maybe Stanford is better than Duke for you, but for someone else, Duke maybe better for him/her than Stanford. You can’t just make a blanket statement that Stanford is better than Duke; there is NO WAY to prove that. Both of those schools are just way too similar. I agree that Stanford is more prestigious and selective than Duke, but greater prestige and selectivity does not equal better.

Now if you say Stanford undergrad is better than StateU undergrad, I can see where you are coming from, and you will be more able to prove it.

Anyway, I am not going to change your mind, nor are you going to be able to change my mind. So I’m going to stop debating this with you.

slik_nik · June 11, 2009, 11:29pm

@cdz512: I like how you have become a big fan of Rice overnight So you for sure applying then?

cdz512 · June 12, 2009, 12:06am

<ul>
<li>are you serious? you obviously do not realize that SAT/ACT scores are not all that determines acceptance into these elite colleges – maybe it is mainly what you need for Duke, but I know that for a fact for Stanford, they really don’t care that much about your scores but you’re unique talents, interests, accomplishments, and most of all, PASSION. Scores get your foot in the door for Stanford, but to actually get in you need a LOT more, which is what makes the Stanford student body different than the Duke student body. posting those statistics about the average ACT/SAT for Stanford/Duke/Rice proves nothing. admissions are not based solely on SAT/ACT stats.</li>
</ul>

Yes admissions is more than ACT/SAT and GPA. But I want to ask you, how would you know that Duke has a less school with passion than Stanford? Your statement makes it seem that Duke accepts student with high scores and little EC, psh yeah right. Duke is a spirited school. The last thing they want is a kid who is all academic, not social ECs. Academics take you to the foot steps of the admissions building at Duke, overall balance of academics and EC takes you into the door. Outstanding commitment, rec letters, essays and balance (work hard play hard) gets you a letter saying ACCEPTED. And that applied to all schools not Stanford. And I would certainly not trust that Stanford’s students have better life experience than Duke because how do you know that? I’m think not one of them is inferior to the other and they are pretty much just amazing as the other.
My response with the SAT/ACT and GPA was in response to this: “You are making it sound like that the student body is of tremendous higher caliber at a place like Stanford versus a place like Duke, and that is simply not true.”

again, how would you know this?"
I think I pretty much answered your question because the scores proved one thing, they are not tremendously higher caliber than Duke.

<ul>
<li>again, what? i don’t care if your going to bet that the Rice person will get the job, that has nothing to do with this. First of all, there are other factors to getting a job other than just what college you went to. most students in engineering go on to get a masters degree in graduate school AND THEN find a job. and if you want to play the betting game, I bet a Harvard undergraduate will have a much better chance of getting into MIT for grad school than someone from Rice. But there’s no point in your betting game because betting is an incredibly useless and subjective thing to do.</li>
</ul>

Let me turn the table on you: how do you know this? did you ever experience this? I highly doubt this because you never experience this before. Oh also note that MIT isn’t good at BME either, sorry but going from a school that isn’t good at BME to another school that isn’t good at BME sounds easier than going from a school known for BME, especially undergrad, to a school that is also known for its BME. Simply to put it this way, who would you select, a BME student from Duke who has done internship and research (something that almost all Duke BME students do and get well paid experiences) and a student for Harvard whose BME is relatively unknown and hasn’t had internship (Harvard simply doesn’t focus on engineering). Oh I would also like to add, you can’t simply just apply to a school and get a masters. There is no top school that allows people to apply to get a masters. Its funny that you say that

and i agree, students don’t just rely on rankings, they really do research a lot to make sure they choose the BEST university, which in the case of Duke and Stanford, is Stanford.

Simple mistake there, college is a match not a prize, your statements simply makes Stanford seem like a prize to be one. My friend had the capability of getting into Harvard. She was top of the class, with so much good extracurricular and high test score, she chose Penn over Harvard. Another person who just graduated today was a presidential scholar, aka perfect SAT-2400, he chose to go to UMich. And another presidential scholar 2400 SAT (we had 6 total in this years graduating class), who also chose UM Ross Business over Ivies and Stanford (yes he choice UM Ross over Stanford). Simply to say it, college is a fit, you make Stanford look like a prize.

Oh, lookie here. it seems like this website shows that 92% of people accepted into Duke and Stanford choose Stanford!

Phahaha I think somebody needs to look over their statistics. “The data are ESTIMATES, based on a statistical model that in turn was based on a survey of 3,200 high school seniors at 500 schools across the country”

3,200!!! that’s about 1/8 of the students that applied to Duke this year and 1/10 of the applications of Stanford.
3,200!!! That’s like the most statistically underrepresented national survey. I mean seriously 3,200 out of pretty much hundred of thousands of seniors out there.
500 high schools?!?!?!?! There are more than 20,000+ high schools. Talk about a statistical misrepresentation. I bet you they did not go to one boarding or private competitive college prep school.
I also would like to wonder what kind of school they surveyed, what factors they used. Also I wonder how much college understanding do these people have. I mean I can go ask any one on the street simply which college do you think you would attend if you had the chance, Harvard or MIT, I bet you most will say Harvard. But if I would bring this to students who had the right “college counseling” aka they have talked to their counselors personally and have research the schools, the table would be turned greatly and I bet you it would end up near half and half, definitely not what the chart says. People have gotten so many misunderstanding thinking that the Ivies are the best of the best, simple to say, they are wrong. They are just amongst the best, not the best. Getting a Duke education will not put you in an inferior position compared to Stanford (yes some cases you will, depending on how well you did) but when it comes to job searches, it is simply to say that a Duke graduate has a equal chance at getting a job as a Stanford graduate.

<ul>
<li>wow? again, you obviously have not done much research. just because X university rejects a certain student who gets accepted into Y university does not mean that X university is better than Y. There are so many factors that contribute to that. For example, yield. You know why WashU waitlisted so many “overqualified” applicants this year? because they felt those applicants would get into a better school like HYPSM and not go to WashU, thus decreasing their yield and lower their rankings. Duke does the same thing too to have a good yield. They could have just rejected your friend because he/she didn’t show much interest or seemed qualified enough to go to a better school. The point is, just because a student might get accepted a MIT and not Duke or WashU doesn’t mean Duke is better. that statement is tremendously flawed.</li>
</ul>

I would also like to turn this table on you. Here is another true example. This year, this girl applied to SCEA (Single Choice Early Action), if that doesn’t demonstrate interest, then I don’t know what will. She got rejected, what is she now? A Yalie, yes she got accepted to Yale regular choice and rejected at Stanford early action. Lets look again, oh wait Yale has a smaller acceptance percent and number of students than Stanford. Hmmm lets look at that, so she got rejected at Stanford SCEA and accepted at Yale RD, I would say she didn’t demonstrate interest, psh yeah right. You can’t say she was over qualified can you, because according to ranking (because it will be easier for you to understand) Yale is only 2 places ahead Stanford. Oh and according to you she would not have demonstrated interest. Wrong

applicants would get into a better school like HYPSM and not go to WashU, thus decreasing their yield and lower their rankings.

I think the last thing college care about is their ranking. Again you still praise ranking too much. There is also a reason why there is something called waitlisting. If you didn’t know, the kids admitted and the first couple hundred kids on the waitlist have stats you and I couldn’t tell the difference between. To put it in simply words, schools put kids on waitlist because they think "if X number of kids leave, we can take X number of kids off waitlist and they would have pretty much the same stats which means no lower ranking.

cdz512 · June 12, 2009, 12:18am

slik nik,
It is a very difficult decision. Only problem is, I’m torn between Duke and Rice. I will apply for both for sure (that’s a guarantee) only I don’t know what if I get accepted to both, which I have a chance because Duke and Rice likes my school, we send anywhere from 3-5 out of the 120-150 some kids at my school and nearly 80% of the people who apply. But I really want to experience both at the same time. I love Rice: amazing bioengineering, amazing faculty student ratio and relationship, Texas med volunteer ability. But I also love Duke: amazing BME as well, Duke Med and the ability to do research with Duke Med (I wish Rice had a med school) and great school athletic spirit. It is extremely hard, I would be happy at both, but that doesn’t make the decision any easier. I can’t play the geography game because I love any southern weather. I can’t play the ranking game because frankly I DON’T CARE ABOUT RANKING, especially even when you are looking at ranking both are ranked up there and especially in BME. Its just so hard. I love both campus, gorgeous I say. Both are located near or in wooded areas. Its so hard
Here is one thing: Stanford loves my school too, in 2008, we set a good 5 kids to Stanford, nearly 80% of the kids who applied that year got in. I don’t know the statistics this year but are Stanford kids this year I know.
I go to a private college prep school in the Midwest.

slik_nik · June 12, 2009, 12:39am

@cdz512:

I know exactly how you feel. I was accepted to both Duke and Rice (which I probably already told you before), and it was VERY HARD turning down Duke. I never thought I would get into either of these fine universities. Duke has a nationally renowned environmental sciences program, and it was hard turning that down as well. It pretty much came to 3 days before May 1st before I made a decision.

However, one of the things that turned the tables for me was Rice’s merit offer; it was too good of an offer to pass up. 30 percent of incoming freshmen this year got a merit scholarship offer of some sort. Don’t be surprised if you get a merit offer from Rice; that is how they try and lure you It is still very difficult to get merit aid, but it is definitely easier to get good merit aid/financial aid at Rice than at any of the other top 20 universities, including Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, JHU, WashU, etc.

frenchhorngirl · June 12, 2009, 1:41am

wow cdz512: you are so wrong

“My response with the SAT/ACT and GPA was in response to this: “You are making it sound like that the student body is of tremendous higher caliber at a place like Stanford versus a place like Duke, and that is simply not true.””
– you just keep contradicting yourself. you want to show that the caliber of the student body at Duke and Stanford are not much different by posting the SAT/ACT statistics of both schools, and then you go on to agree with my earlier statements that SAT/ACT is not all that determines the caliber of a student body. stop contradicting yourself.

"And I would certainly not trust that Stanford’s students have better life experience than Duke because how do you know that? "
– when did i ever say that Stanford students have a better life experience? i just said that because of the extremely competitive admissions rate, the consequence is that OVERALL, the Stanford student body is of higher caliber than Duke’s

“Phahaha I think somebody needs to look over their statistics. “The data are ESTIMATES, based on a statistical model that in turn was based on a survey of 3,200 high school seniors at 500 schools across the country””
– at least i HAVE statistics that actually support my argument. all you ever do is say, “my friend did this, my friend did that, oh and my other friend did blah blah and got into harvard! and this other random person i know (oh, this is a true story by the way), got into Stanford but not Duke. oh yeah and there’s this other guy i knew who…” are you serious? please, do not act like my statistics are flawed when you are the one who is acting like stories from a FEW of your friends represents all of america.

“I would also like to turn this table on you. Here is another true example. This year, this girl applied to SCEA (Single Choice Early Action), if that doesn’t demonstrate interest, then I don’t know what will. She got rejected, what is she now? A Yalie, yes she got accepted to Yale regular choice and rejected at Stanford early action. Lets look again, oh wait Yale has a smaller acceptance percent and number of students than Stanford. Hmmm lets look at that, so she got rejected at Stanford SCEA and accepted at Yale RD, I would say she didn’t demonstrate interest, psh yeah right. You can’t say she was over qualified can you, because according to ranking (because it will be easier for you to understand) Yale is only 2 places ahead Stanford. Oh and according to you she would not have demonstrated interest. Wrong”

– okay wow, i think you REALLY missed the point here, and your argument is so bad its really funny. First of all, demonstrated interest is NOT the only factor, as I have said before. 5,363 students applied to Stanford early, all demonstrating interest. 5,363!!! 5,363!!! of COURSE Stanford is not going to accept all of them. you’re friend demonstrated interest just like all the other 5,362 applicants! Stanford is not going to accept your friend who applied early just because she applied early. You need to understand this: What I was saying before was just that demonstrated interest is a POSSIBLE REASON as to why your friend got into MIT/Stanford and not Duke, as you were making it sound like Duke was better because she got rejected from Duke and not MIT/Stanford. The thing is, SOOOOO many people want to go to Stanford, and stanford can’t accept all 5,363 of the early applicants who show interest, so they pick the BEST ones. Also, remember this: Stanford is on the same level as HYPSM, so they aren’t afraid of rejecting people who show demonstrated interest. SO many people want to go to Stanford, demonstrated interest doesn’t matter to them. Stanford has SUCH A HIGH YIELD ALREADY that it doesn’t need to worry about demonstrated interest, whereas Duke does NOT have a very high yield, so it DOES worry about demonstrated interest. Duke doesn’t want to accept a bunch of overqualified students who are going to choose HYPSM anyway. It’s all part of the college application process, if only you understood.

“Oh and according to you she would not have demonstrated interest. Wrong”
What the heck are you talking about? when have I ever talked about this person, and when have I ever said that she would not have demonstrated interest? Stop putting words into my mouth.

“I think the last thing college care about is their ranking.”

ha. you’d be surprised. colleges care VERY much.

“There is also a reason why there is something called waitlisting.”

again, this proves to me how little you have done your research. Yes, there is a reason for waitlisting, but it is not what your explanation is. Okay, here’s an example. Why does WashU waitlist so many of its applicants? because it only accepts the students that they THINK will attend based on demonstrated interest, BECAUSE WASHU KNOWS THAT THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS WOULD CHOOSE HYPSM OVER THEM IF THEY HAD A CHOICE, and they don’t want to accept EVERYONE who is qualified because then they’re yield would be low! do you still not get it! its so obvious! And remember this: Don’t compare this concept of demonstrated interest to Stanford! It just doesn’t work that way! why? BECAUSE STANFORD KNOWS THAT THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS WOULD CHOOSE IT OVER SCHOOLS LIKE DUKE AND WASHU. I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings and crushes your ego about Duke but its true. you’re silly stories have no argument, they just support everything i’ve been saying this entire time!

the point is. places like Duke and WashU want to INCREASE their yield, which is why demonstrated interest is so important for them – it’s the only way to separate highly competitive students who have almost exactly the same stats from each other. Demonstrated interest is not shown just through applying early decision/action, but also through your essays. ANDDDD —> because schools like HYPSM already have such a high yield, they do not care about demonstrated interest as much as just accepted the very best students. so, sorry to break it to you, but your story about your friend or whatever getting rejected from stanford but getting into yale just supports my argument further.

frenchhorngirl · June 12, 2009, 1:47am

to further explain waitlisting, WashU waitlists many qualified candidates because they would probably get into HYPSM and go there and not go to WashU, so they waitlist them, and if the candidates stay on the waitlist and if there is room left in the class, they start taking those students off the waitlist. its all about yield, colleges care very much about yield and VERY much about ranking – not because they agree with the rankings, but because they know that many americans care about rankings, which in turn affects their school.

frenchhorngirl · June 12, 2009, 1:50am

“The last thing colleges care about are rankings?”
hahahahhahahahhahhahahahaahhaa. thats funny. if they don’t care about rankings, then how come when i searched WashU and went on their website, i found the following passage:

"WUSTL Programs Rank in Top 10

Several WUSTL schools, academic areas, and departments at the graduate and professional levels currently hold top-10 rankings in U.S. News & World Report’s 2008 rankings of graduate and professional programs.

<pre><code>* The George Warren Brown School of Social Work ranks No. 1 among master’s of social work programs.

The School of Medicine ranks No. 3 among research-oriented medical schools. Many individual programs are very highly ranked as well, including the Program in Occupational Therapy (tied for No. 1) and the Program in Physical Therapy (tied for No. 2). Several other academic areas also achieved top-10 rankings. Pediatrics is tied for a No. 7 ranking; audiology is ranked No. 5; and internal medicine is ranked No. 8.
The School of Law’s trial advocacy program is No. 4 in the nation, and the clinical training program ranks No. 6.
</code></pre>

Many other University programs rank in U.S. News’ top 25. The complete list of rankings is available at grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad."

^yeah, they don’t care about rankings. give me a break. that’s almost as funny as saying they don’t care about yield!

slik_nik · June 12, 2009, 2:18am

@frenchhorngirl:

In regards to demonstrated interest, I’m pretty sure that demonstrated interest plays a VERY MINOR role in the admissions process at Duke, if any at all. I don’t know about you, but I have just been through the 2008-09 admissions process, so I have first-hand knowledge about this. Schools that place an emphasis on demonstrated interest, such as WashU, Rice, Emory, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt, will have a spot on the supplement asking what contact was made with the admissions office (i.e. college visit, interview, high school visit, etc.) and a “Why [insert school name here]” essay. Duke did not have a spot regarding admissions contact, and the “Why Duke?” essay was optional (I didn’t complete it, and I still got in).

Duke is on its way to reach the prestige of HYPSM in the eyes of the average American; Duke only accepted about 17 percent of applicants this year. Sure, still easier to get into Duke than Stanford, but selective enough where demonstrated interest does not need to be a major consideration. There were about 24,000 applicants to Duke this year. Maybe 3-4 years ago they had to take demonstrated interest into account, but not anymore.

BTW, Duke travels with Harvard and Stanford when they host college information sessions (along with UPenn and Georgetown).

cdz512 · June 12, 2009, 11:16am

My number one concern is the OP, I wonder how he feels about a debate that has gone so off topics. I want to first apologize to the OP.

hahahahhahahahhahhahahahaahhaa. thats funny. if they don’t care about rankings, then how come when i searched WashU and went on their website, i found the following passage:

Wow, somebody needs to learn the world of business. It seems like ranking has become a new religion for you. When you have a positive feedback from any source, in the world of business, it’s always good to emphasize that feedback to increase your business. In this case, the “business” is the number of application. When you are “ranked” up there, it is best to put it out to the world because it would “look” more attractive and “attract” more people to apply –> more application fee.

– okay wow, i think you REALLY missed the point here, and your argument is so bad its really funny. First of all, demonstrated interest is NOT the only factor, as I have said before. 5,363 students applied to Stanford early, all demonstrating interest. 5,363!!! 5,363!!! of COURSE Stanford is not going to accept all of them. you’re friend demonstrated interest just like all the other 5,362 applicants! Stanford is not going to accept your friend who applied early just because she applied early. You need to understand this: What I was saying before was just that demonstrated interest is a POSSIBLE REASON as to why your friend got into MIT/Stanford and not Duke, as you were making it sound like Duke was better because she got rejected from Duke and not MIT/Stanford. The thing is, SOOOOO many people want to go to Stanford, and stanford can’t accept all 5,363 of the early applicants who show interest, so they pick the BEST ones. Also, remember this: Stanford is on the same level as HYPSM, so they aren’t afraid of rejecting people who show demonstrated interest. SO many people want to go to Stanford, demonstrated interest doesn’t matter to them. Stanford has SUCH A HIGH YIELD ALREADY that it doesn’t need to worry about demonstrated interest, whereas Duke does NOT have a very high yield, so it DOES worry about demonstrated interest. Duke doesn’t want to accept a bunch of overqualified students who are going to choose HYPSM anyway. It’s all part of the college application process, if only you understood.

First off, no where in my posts did I say “my friend” got rejected from Duke and entered MIT. Number two, like slik nik said not all schools care about demonstrated interest. Duke’s and Stanford’s essays doesn’t pinpoint who is interested because they know everyone who apply is interested (hence the fact that even if you are apply as a backup, it still means your interested). If you did your research (which your research was a statistical underrepresented and misleading chart) you would learn that Duke says: “Although we are glad that you may have visited our campus or asked us questions about the school, demonstrated interest is not an advantage in the admissions process.”
<a href=“https://www.admissions.duke.edu/faq/index9ffc.html?iQuestionID=519%20&iCategoryID=1[/url]”>https://www.admissions.duke.edu/faq/index9ffc.html?iQuestionID=519%20&iCategoryID=1</a>

What the heck are you talking about? when have I ever talked about this person, and when have I ever said that she would not have demonstrated interest? Stop putting words into my mouth.

I was not putting words into your mouth for your information. I responded to this: “They could have just rejected your friend because he/she didn’t show much interest or seemed qualified enough to go to a better school.” Self explanatory.

– at least i HAVE statistics that actually support my argument. all you ever do is say, “my friend did this, my friend did that, oh and my other friend did blah blah and got into harvard! and this other random person i know (oh, this is a true story by the way), got into Stanford but not Duke. oh yeah and there’s this other guy i knew who…” are you serious? please, do not act like my statistics are flawed when you are the one who is acting like stories from a FEW of your friends represents all of america.

Did I ever say the represent all of America? no I was simply showing you examples that when you say, “Stanford denies people who doesn’t show interest or seems qualified”. And when you said people who got into HYPSM are going to go there. Also I hoped you learned this in statistics, when you take a sampling, I highly doubt taking a sample size 100 times smaller than the whole is going to produce accurate results. Simple to say, your relying on statistics that is underrepresented. How is misleading statistics going to be good statistics.
I hope you know that my “research” came directly from accurate sites that are reliable. In the case of your “research” and “statistics” your statistics is one that has misrepresented the whole. I find it funny that you are telling me to “research” when one of your first statement was that Duke is a tier 2 school.

– you just keep contradicting yourself. you want to show that the caliber of the student body at Duke and Stanford are not much different by posting the SAT/ACT statistics of both schools, and then you go on to agree with my earlier statements that SAT/ACT is not all that determines the caliber of a student body. stop contradicting yourself.
i just said that because of the extremely competitive admissions rate, the consequence is that OVERALL, the Stanford student body is of higher caliber than Duke’s

How is that contradicting? they are two different things: ACT/SAT GPA stats of the current undergrads and then the admissions process. Simple to say, I proved that Stanford’s students “caliber” isn’t significantly better than Duke. And then I turned to admissions, and said what is universally accepted, that SAT/ACT doesn’t matter in admissions. I first proved the caliber statement in which you ask how do we know that Stanford’s isn’t tremendously better than Duke’s. And then I made a statement about admissions. It doesn’t contradict, nice try, because that “tremendously higher in caliber” was proved wrong.

I simply don’t feel like wasting my time arguing with a person who extremely worships the rankings and adorns numbers. Simple to say, you actually need to work on learning the facts about college ranking and its full accuracy because I highly doubt UMich is any lower than Brown especially when Brown is known little for any of its undergrad programs and UM is known for Ross Business School and School of Engineering. I am simply going to say what the former president of Stanford said: “these rankings-particularly their specious formulas and spurious precision-is utterly misleading.”
Arguing with a person who loves the ranking book and probably has all of them just isn’t worth my time. And NO Stanford isn’t much better than Duke, they are equal, not one is superior over the other and college is not a prize (which you make it seem), college is a match. Allow the OP to go to Duke where he dreams of going, he believes Duke is a fit. You can go apply to Stanford, I won’t stop you but just don’t try to make other people apply to places they weren’t interested in. I will stop commenting because I want the OP to have his thread back, the thread where he asks if he can get into Duke and I believe if he wants to go to Duke, then he should try his work hard on his essays and make sure his grades stay up and simply send the application and wait for the results. This debate has gone way off topic from the OP’s original post and again, I apologize for my posts.

frenchhorngirl · June 12, 2009, 4:08pm

cdz512: i believe you said this.
“Oh just to let you know there are people who get rejected from Duke that get into MIT and Stanford.”
– maybe it isn’t your “friend,” but you still implied the same thing that because people get rejected from Duke and get into MIT/Stanford, that Duke is better, which is not true. and I was just using demonstrated interest and yield as a POSSIBLE REASON as to why people might get into MIT/Stanford and not Duke. duh.

“When you are “ranked” up there, it is best to put it out to the world because it would “look” more attractive and “attract” more people to apply –> more application fee.”
– this is exactly WHY colleges care about their ranking. thanks for supporting my argument again.

“I was not putting words into your mouth for your information. I responded to this: “They could have just rejected your friend because he/she didn’t show much interest or seemed qualified enough to go to a better school.” Self explanatory.”
– when I made that comment, I was talking about a DIFFERENT person – the ones who get rejected from Duke and get into MIT/Stanford. YOU were talking about your friend who got into Yale but rejected from Stanford SCEA, which is not the same person I was talking about, so you WERE putting words into my mouth. This is what you said: “Hmmm lets look at that, so she got rejected at Stanford SCEA and accepted at Yale RD, I would say she didn’t demonstrate interest, psh yeah right. You can’t say she was over qualified can you, because according to ranking (because it will be easier for you to understand) Yale is only 2 places ahead Stanford. Oh and according to you she would not have demonstrated interest.” – see that? When I said, “They could have just rejected your friend because he/she didn’t show much interest or seemed qualified enough to go to a better school,” I was talking about the person who got rejected from Duke but got into MIT/Stanford, NOT the person who got rejected from Stanford but got into Yale. So for YOUR information, you WERE putting words into my mouth. I think its pretty self explanatory. And by the way, that argument about your friend getting into Yale but not into Stanford was already killed by my explanation of how demonstrated interest does not apply to schools like HYPSM, so just drop it.

“when you take a sampling, I highly doubt taking a sample size 100 times smaller than the whole is going to produce accurate results.”
– at least its better than taking a sampling from a couple friends to make a sampling size that’s 200 million times smaller than the whole
“Simple to say, your relying on statistics that is underrepresented.”
– oh, that must mean that you’re relying on statistics that are REALLY underrepresented. Around 200 million times underrepresented to be a little more precise.
“How is misleading statistics going to be good statistics.”
– that is a VERY good question for you.
“I hope you know that my “research” came directly from accurate sites that are reliable.”
– wow, are you serious? My sources have been The New York Times and USNews, which are two of the most reliable sources in the country. please don’t even try to argue that The New York Times and USNews are not accurate and reliable sites.
“I find it funny that you are telling me to “research” when one of your first statement was that Duke is a tier 2 school.”
– first of all, I told you to research because you had no idea how important of a concept yield is to these top schools that are not HYPSM. Secondly, in the context of the top 50 schools, HYPSM is tier 1 and Duke is tier 2. Sorry to break it to you, but Duke and HYPSM are on different levels.
“I proved that Stanford’s students “caliber” isn’t significantly better than Duke.”
– um, no you didn’t. all you proved was that the SAT/ACT stats were similar. I see that you STILL don’t get the point. SAT/ACT stats do NOT show the caliber of a student body – there’s so much that goes beyond just grades and scores. There’s passion, talents, interests, accomplishments, etc…not just scores that show how great a student body is. If scores were the only thing that mattered, people with perfect SATs and ACTs would be automatically accepted to elite colleges, and that is just not true.
“I simply don’t feel like wasting my time arguing with a person who extremely worships the rankings and adorns numbers.”
– first of all, I do not “extremely worship” rankings, I just don’t think they are extremely overrated like you. And second of all, I don’t adorn numbers, I use them as support against all of your arguments because frankly, facts are much stronger than saying, “well my friend did this and my friend did that.” So to turn the table on you, I simply don’t feel like wasting MY time arguing with a person who thinks all statistics, numbers, and rankings are extremely overrated and who never uses any factual based evidence to support himself.
“I am simply going to say what the former president of Stanford said: “these rankings-particularly their specious formulas and spurious precision-is utterly misleading.””
– again, why do I care what the president of Stanford says? To me, he just sounds like he’s mad his school isn’t ranked number one. Again, you need to learn to argue better by using some facts and not other people’s opinions.
“I apologize for my posts.”
– I accept your apology.

slik_nik · June 12, 2009, 5:41pm

@frenchhorngirl: I know I stated that I would stop arguing with your statements, but some of your statements are fallacious, so I have to argue them.

You say that Duke is a Tier 2 school (“in the context of the top 50 universities, HYPSM is tier 1 and Duke is tier 2”), but you haven’t provided any evidence to back that up. You provide yield statistics, but just because Duke has a lower yield than Stanford does not mean it is Tier 2. Based on the information on the NYT article you cited, you gave statistics that 94 percent of “admitees” choose Stanford over Duke. How does that mean it is tier 2? 65 percent of the “admitees” choose Harvard over Yale, a clear majority; does that mean Yale is Tier 2? No.

Regarding the U.S. News and World Report rankings, Stanford is ranked #4, whereas Duke is ranked #8. Again, this does not mean that Stanford is better than Duke because the difference is negligible (Stanford had a score of 94, whereas Duke had a score of 90, 4 out of 100 point difference is negligible; if this was a report card grade, they would both count as a 4.0 GPA)… you cannot say one is better than the other because there are just too many similarities. Anyway, how does a difference of 4 spots make one school Tier 1 and another school Tier 2, especially if they are both in the top 10 list of more than 2474 colleges/universities in America (based on data from Infoplease: [Number</a> of U.S. Colleges and Universities and Degrees Awarded, 2005 — Infoplease.com](<a href=“Number of U.S. Colleges and Universities and Degrees Awarded, 2005)?%5DNumber”>Number of U.S. Colleges and Universities and Degrees Awarded, 2005)?) If you want to rely on US News rankings, Duke is in the 99.67 percentile of all 4-year universities in the United States; how is that not Tier 1?

Maybe to you Duke is Tier 2, but the general public will consider otherwise. I strongly believe that Duke is in the same league as Stanford. As I stated earlier, Stanford has a slightly better reputation and prestige (in other words, name recognition), but greater recognition and prestige does not equal better. The academic quality/rigor, quality of teaching, and the quality of life (although the weather will be better at Stanford, I’ll give you that) are basically the same at both universities. So you cannot argue that Stanford is better than Duke; they are just way too similar in all the qualities that make up a great university.

For your information, Tier 2 schools are those schools that do not make the top 50 on U.S. News and World Report. See this link: [College</a> Search: Second Tier. Colleges](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/second_tier.htm]College”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/second_tier.htm) . It seems that you have already acknowledged this by making a reference to the top 50 national universities though.

cdz512 · June 12, 2009, 5:59pm

– I accept your apology.
My apology was to the OP, why would I apologize to you?
If you did read I said “again, I apologize for my posts.” Again is used to tie one situation to another similar situation that has already been said. In this case, I apologized to the OP first, and so at the end, I apologized again. I don’t see how you could misunderstand that and interpreted as a apology to you, but somehow you did.

– at least its better than taking a sampling from a couple friends to make a sampling size that’s 200 million times smaller than the whole
Did I ever say that I was going to represent my friends as a whole? No. Your statement was that people who get rejected from Stanford don’t show interest or potential, I said no and I gave you an example. I never stated that I was going to use it as a sampling. Most of the statements you made didn’t even said the word “some” or “most”, so to readers, it implies that all of the students are like this.

To me, he just sounds like he’s mad his school isn’t ranked number one. Again, you need to learn to argue better by using some facts and not other people’s opinions.

Other people’s opinion. Hmm isn’t your so called “statistics” opinions? From like 3,200 people. Isn’t ranking opinions? how is it facts, especially when it represents only a tiny fraction? especially when it states loud and clear “Peer Review”. Peer Review is other presidents view on the other college.
I never intended on using my to represent the whole. You simply never use the word “most” and “some”. After we bring up that demonstrated interest isn’t a major factor you then say it is a “possible”.
I highly doubt that he is mad he is not number one. If Stanford has so many applications, he doesn’t care about being number one, he knows that a lot people is going to apply, just like all the other schools and especially top schools that is ranked), especially if he already acknowledge that his school is one of the “top” schools. I’m asking, how do you he is mad he just isn’t ranked number one?

– first of all, I told you to research because you had no idea how important of a concept yield is to these top schools that are not HYPSM. Secondly, in the context of the top 50 schools, HYPSM is tier 1 and Duke is tier 2. Sorry to break it to you, but Duke and HYPSM are on different levels.

I would like you to show me where it says that “HYPSM is tier 1 and Duke is tier 2.”

– first of all, I do not “extremely worship” rankings, I just don’t think they are extremely overrated like you. And second of all, I don’t adorn numbers, I use them as support against all of your arguments because frankly, facts are much stronger than saying, “well my friend did this and my friend did that.” So to turn the table on you, I simply don’t feel like wasting MY time arguing with a person who thinks all statistics, numbers, and rankings are extremely overrated and who never uses any factual based evidence to support himself.

Nice try. I’m overrated? I have not even said anything about myself and my personal credentials. How do you know I’m “overrated”? Again I would like you to know that “peer review” is also opinions, not facts. I thought you read the US News’s methodology. And again I never used my examples to say this represents the whole.

You said “students don’t just rely on rankings, they really do research a lot to make sure they choose the BEST university, which in the case of Duke and Stanford, is Stanford”
This statement, in which you never said anything about majority or some, would make people think you are talking about all students. Simple to say, I said that people don’t always choose the best, even if it is ranked higher.

– um, no you didn’t. all you proved was that the SAT/ACT stats were similar. I see that you STILL don’t get the point. SAT/ACT stats do NOT show the caliber of a student body – there’s so much that goes beyond just grades and scores. There’s passion, talents, interests, accomplishments, etc…not just scores that show how great a student body is. If scores were the only thing that mattered, people with perfect SATs and ACTs would be automatically accepted to elite colleges, and that is just not true.

If you haven’t found out what the word “tremendous” mean, then you might want to search that up, especially because “tremendous” means “large in degree; enormous”. Well the SAT/ACT proved that the “tremendous” is wrong. Again work on finding key words in a sentence, because I quoted “tremendous in caliber” many times hoping you would understand that tremendous is a error in the sentence, which it is since ACT/SAT proves the tremendous caliber just isn’t tremendous.

– maybe it isn’t your “friend,” but you still implied the same thing that because people get rejected from Duke and get into MIT/Stanford, that Duke is better, which is not true. and I was just using demonstrated interest and yield as a POSSIBLE REASON as to why people might get into MIT/Stanford and not Duke. duh.
I would like to explain what my sentence meant for real. If you followed the argument, my sentence meant that Duke denies kids who are just capable of going to Harvard, JHU, Yale, Upenn. I never used it as a intention to say so Duke is better. Also my argument has never been Duke is better. My argument has always and is always going to be about Duke and Stanford is at equal level, there is simply no way to say that Stanford is superior or inferior to Duke. Not one is inferior to other. That has always been my argument. Actually I lied, that hasn’t always been my argument, my argument is that you (frenchhorngirl) should not go around telling people who obvious interested in one school to go apply to another school that the OP wasn’t as interested. I know that slik nik and I have never done that, we both agree that college is a fit, not always go to one that is more prestigious (if one think a prestigious school is his/her fit, then go I have nothing against that)
If you don’t think that you saying I had a friend that got rejected at Duke and got into MIT is putting words in my mouth, then I don’t know what is. Especially when you still believe I was talking about a person I knew somebody who got into MIT and not Duke, which I don’t.

I find it funny how you shut your mouth about Duke and their “demonstrated interest” usage.

To the OP:
Haha, hopefully this debate is coming to a close. Like so many people have reiterated, I’m simply just not that into Stanford. It’s a wonderful school, I admit, but I feel Duke would be such a greater fit.

I’m hopeful too, this will be my last post on this thread, fell free to start another thread and ask your question again. I won’t comment and cause another debate if you make another thread. I am sorry about this. You have the freedom to go where you want, I won’t say anything to get you to go to other schools. And I hope frenchhorngirl will learn to not try to persuade other people who are interested in a college to go to another college.

frenchhorngirl · June 12, 2009, 8:09pm

@ slik nik: “Regarding the U.S. News and World Report rankings, Stanford is ranked #4, whereas Duke is ranked #8. Again, this does not mean that Stanford is better than Duke because the difference is negligible”
– again, I never said that Stanford was only better than Duke because of rankings, there are other reasons which I have previously stated a million times and do not feel like restating myself.
“Maybe to you Duke is Tier 2, but the general public will consider otherwise.”
– another empty statement. Where is the evidence? I have already shown much evidence with the new York times cross admit statistics, where 92% of the general public chose Stanford over Duke.
“I strongly believe that Duke is in the same league as Stanford.”
– and your opinion matters because…?
“The academic quality/rigor, quality of teaching, and the quality of life (although the weather will be better at Stanford, I’ll give you that) are basically the same at both universities.”
– in THE PRINCETON REVIEW’s “The Best 368 Colleges” book (which I might add is considered the best and most reliable college handbook in the country, so don’t even try to argue that my sources aren’t reliable. It’s THE PRINCEON REVIEW). It says the following: quality of life. Stanford 98, Duke 75 – that’s a difference of 23 points – that is HUGE. Even if we consider room for error, Stanford would STILL beat Duke in quality of life. Boom. you’re statement that both universities have the same quality of life just got beat down bad. Next, you say academic quality. Lets see, academic rating (which includes quality and quality of teaching) for Stanford is 99, Duke’s is 92 – Stanford wins again. What next you say? Oh, the weather is better at Stanford, okay. Oh, and what again? I remember you admitting that Stanford also has a better name and more prestige, although I AGREE that this does not mean Stanford is better JUST BECAUSE of prestige. HOWEVER, all of this data gathered from many, many of the world’s most reliable sources all clearly have shown that Stanford beats Duke in all the important aspects to a college. So there it is, Stanford beats Duke in aspects not just of prestige.
“you cannot argue that Stanford is better than Duke; they are just way too similar in all the qualities that make up a great university.”
– I believe I just have, and I just have shown how they are not “way too similar in all the qualities that make up a great university,” as one of the qualities, quality of life, Stanford beats Duke by 20 points. And do NOT even try to argue that The Princeton Review is not a reliable and acknowledged source. That’s like saying the new York times and USNews are not reliable.

cdz512 : “Your statement was that people who get rejected from Stanford don’t show interest or potential, I said no and I gave you an example”
– never have I stated that “people who get rejected from Stanford don’t show interest or potential.” I actually said almost the exact opposite, that Stanford does not take demonstrated interest into account. Your example was worthless because it just supported my argument that Stanford does not take demonstrated interest into account. Learn to read better.
“why would I apologize to you?”
– for wasting my time

“Hmm isn’t your so called “statistics” opinions? From like 3,200 people.”
– um, my statistics from The New York Times, The Princeton Review, and USNews, which I might add are very reliable sources, were used in support of my argument that Stanford is a school much more desired than Duke, and because they are so much more desired, they have a large competitive applicant pool, which leads to higher caliber students, which leads to a much smaller acceptance rate, which leads to a higher yield, thus NO NEED for demonstrated interest. MY POINT IS THIS. All of the statistics I have been using are used to support my argument, and the fact that some statistics I have used ARE sometimes other people’s opinions GOES ALONG with my argument that desirability, which is an OPINIONATED subject, leads to NO NEED for DEMONSTRATED INTEREST. You, on the other hand, are using one person, the dean of Stanford’s, opinion as if that is going to prove anything. Again, why does the Dean of Stanford’s opinion matter over anyone else’s opinion? You need to find numbers of larger groups of people to support your argument. As far as I know, statistically speaking, 3,200 people’s opinions are far more accurate than one person, “the dean of stanford’s”, opinion.

“I’m overrated? I have not even said anything about myself and my personal credentials. How do you know I’m “overrated”?”
– I meant to say “overrated like you DO.” As you, or slik nik (I keep mixing you two up), has stated before, “Although I bet Stanford is phenomenal as well, I feel it is overrated, along with Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT. There are so many excellent institutions out there, like Duke (which I also feel is somewhat overrated, but not as much)”

“Again work on finding key words in a sentence, because I quoted “tremendous in caliber” many times hoping you would understand that tremendous is a error in the sentence, which it is since ACT/SAT proves the tremendous caliber just isn’t tremendous.”
– and I’m saying for the hundredth time that ACT/SAT does NOT prove the caliber of a student body, because there are other things to take into account, like passions, talents, interests, etc… Oh, and even if Stanford’s student body is not “tremendously” better than Duke’s, you still can’t argue that Duke is better. find a few reason’s Duke is better. I have already shown many reasons why stanford’s better – quality of life, academics, prestige, student body, weather. Yeah, find a few for Duke please because all you or slik nik has been saying is, “they are the sameeee goshh you can’t compare they’re like equalll, but I still think Duke is better! you know why? Cuz mah friend did this and mah friend did that and oh yeah, the dean of Stanford said blah blah.” Find some facts because I ain’t buying these stories about your friends.

“My argument has always and is always going to be about Duke and Stanford is at equal level, there is simply no way to say that Stanford is superior or inferior to Duke.”
– yeah and um, I killed that argument a few paragraphs up when I showed how Stanford beats Duke in all the important aspects of college. Yeah sorry, but I think The Princeton Review is a pretty reliable source.

“my argument is that you (frenchhorngirl) should not go around telling people who obvious interested in one school to go apply to another school that the OP wasn’t as interested.”
– again, you are putting words into my mouth. My first comment was a compliment, I even said it was a compliment in my second post, and the OP even said he didn’t mind. But then you took the compliment way too seriously and started arguing with me. “forget Duke, apply to Stanford!” was an expression for, “wow you’re stats are really good!” I was not actually ordering him not to apply to Duke. I thought I made this clear when I said, “yes that was a compliment.” Again, learn to read better.

“we both agree that college is a fit, not always go to one that is more prestigious (if one think a prestigious school is his/her fit, then go I have nothing against that)”
– I NEVER said college is not a fit, and I never said it was a prize. I also have said OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again that prestige does NOT mean a school is better. See? You keep putting words into my mouth over and over again. What I said is that prestige is ONE OF THE FACTORS (the others were quality of life, academics, weather, student body, etc…), that makes Stanford better than Duke. I NEVER said it was the only factor. In fact, I have said multiple times that prestige is not the reason why a school is better than another school, so stop putting words into my mouth.

“I find it funny how you shut your mouth about Duke and their “demonstrated interest” usage.”
– I find it funny how you can’t read. Just in my last post I talked about Duke and Demonstrated interest. Again, learn to read better.

“I am sorry about this.”
– I accept your apology. haha just kidding. not really.

“I hope frenchhorngirl will learn to not try to persuade other people who are interested in a college to go to another college.”
– again, I WAS COMPLIMENTING HIM, NOT TRYING TO CONTROL HIM. As this is what I said, “yes it was a compliment.” See? “yes it was a compliment” does not mean “no I was actually trying to order him to not apply to duke,” as you took it.

To the OP: I had NO IDEA my compliment would have gone this far. You have great stats and I’m sure you will make it into Duke. And I hope cdz512 will learn to read better and not take other people’s compliments in the wrong way.

cdz512 · June 12, 2009, 10:35pm

This is going to be short:

In fact, I have said multiple times that prestige is not the reason why a school is better than another school, so stop putting words into my mouth.

Multiple times? where?

Oh, and even if Stanford’s student body is not “tremendously” better than Duke’s, you still can’t argue that Duke is better. find a few reason’s Duke is better.
Funny how you tell me to read when I clearly said I didn’t have the intention to argue that Duke is better (thanks for putting words in my mouth)

“dean of Stanford”
Love how you are telling me to read when I stated “former president of Stanford” and the letter even says president. I think you need to read

rankings are “very reliable sources”
lets do a pool and ask how many people think US News, Princeton Review rankings are reliable and that precise to be able to say exactly which one is better, down to the single positions.

which I might add is considered the best and most reliable college handbook in the country, so don’t even try to argue that my sources aren’t reliable. It’s THE PRINCEON REVIEW
The best and most? wow can that ever be an opinion. I think individual colleges’ own postings and information (from their website and handouts) are more reliable than Princeton Review.
Show me where does it say princeton review is “most reliable”

– I find it funny how you can’t read. Just in my last post I talked about Duke and Demonstrated interest. Again, learn to read better.
Hmm, after you said this “places like Duke and WashU want to INCREASE their yield, which is why demonstrated interest is so important for them – it’s the only way to separate highly competitive students who have almost exactly the same stats from each other.” You pretty much backed out on the part that demonstrated interest is “SO IMPORTANT” to Duke and not even talking about the “importance” of demonstrated interest for Duke.

If you know about academically reliable sources, which it seems like you never had, and something I hope you learn when you go to college, news and journals are unreliable, go ask your school’s teachers.

The fact that you went around Duke threads and said the same thing to each (5) chance thread that appeared in relatively the same period (less than 36 hours). It becomes more interesting when ALL of them said “I am applying ED”. When you say that to each chance thread and each one that has people asking about their chances at ED, your motive doesn’t seem so apparent.

Duke 2014 Hopeful

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