<p>Good q, hedoya. The runaway bride was treated for mental health issues, but still had to deal with the consequences of her behaviors. Let the legal system work for Ms. Mangum too. If she is guilty but mentally ill, or not guilty by reason of insanity, that can be determined as the she grinds her way through the legal system. It should work both ways. She should be charged for making false reports.</p>
<p>The “runaway bride” knew she was making a false report. On the other hand, most people who dealt with the Duke stripper felt that she believed (and believes) what she reported was true. If so, that’s not a crime. The intent of making a false report is an element of the crime. There’s a difference between justice and revenge - it’s worth thinking about when you vent your anger at everyone associated with this case. The desire for revenge fueled the false charges in the first place; should we follow the “eye for an eye” principle and respond with a scorched earth attitude now that “our side” has the upper hand? If she’s really not guilty, because she lacked the intent to make a false charge, do you want her prosecuted anyway? If so, does that make you any different than the “Group of 88” or the NBPP?</p>
<p>My overriding feeling throughout this case is that the thing which allowed the injustice to occur wasn’t malicious intent as much as a lack of professionalism by the DA. There are always going to be whackos like the Duke stripper. If the DA adheres to the proper professional standards in performing his job, it ends there - regardless of his personal opinion, election prospects, etc. Nifong allowing his desire for the report to be true to override the dictates of professional ethics is the root of this matter getting out of hand, as simple as that.</p>
<p>
While I understand Nifong is entitled to a vigorous defence, how can a person who has voiced this opinion represent him? Is there some kind of lobotomy one gets in law school that keeps his head from exploding?</p>
<p>
Sorry, kluge, but what Nifong did constituted a GREAT deal more than “lack of professionalism.” If one “desires” for a report to be true…and works to prove that by any immoral or illegal means necessary…it’s called an “agenda.” Lack of professionalism implies to me a shoddy job, not something with a deliberate malicious intent. Nifong’s refusal to meet with Reade Seligman to discuss his exculpatory evidence and the hiding DNA results that were favorable to the defense go waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond “lack of professionalsim” into dirty, deplorable, agenda-driven illegal/immoral tactics. BIG difference.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t buy for a NY minute the idea that Mangum believed the story she told. She has no credibility and has a known (and documented) history of “problems.” She told a deliberately false story for her own personal and financial gain.</p>
<p>It’s NOT an “eye for an eye” to want JUSTICE. And justice in this particular case involves holding EVERYONE accountable for his/her actions, including the stripper.</p>
<p>Do we have enough information to truly know if Ms. Mangum did or did not know she was making a false report? If I recall, the second stripper changed her story about the events of that evening, and the accuser was perceived to be inibriated or intoxicated when they went to the local convenience store.</p>
<p>This isn’t about vengence. Itis about applying the law equally to all parties involved. Nifong is getting his due prosecutorial justice. The system should be applied to all parties. If it is found to be the case that Mangum did not purposely file a false report, than that is fine. The system will have completed its assessment of the situation.</p>
<p>“If it is found…” That seems to be the conclusion those in a position to make a knowledgeable assessment have concluded. What more do you want? Should a prosecution be instituted even if there isn’t enough evidence to support a reasoned conclusion that her guilt - as to every element of the crime - can be proved? You seem to think that because the students were forced to defend themselves against a prosecution that never should have been filed, she should too. Isn’t that just revenge speaking?</p>
<p>People are angry that the students had to defend themselves, even though they were exonerated. I agree. The DA never should have filed charges against them, even though an accusation was made, which some people believed at the time. It is his professional responsibility to weight the evidence impartially and only charge those he thinks he can present proof beyond a reasonable doubt of their guilt. If the DA (then and now) adheres to that standard, situations like this shouldn’t arise.</p>
<p>I really feel for the 3 Duke students and have for some time-. I also wonder if this case illustrates how the “system” can railroad those who can not fight back. How many poor kids have been found guilty or took a plea bargain to false charges. As a society we need to take a closer look at our justice system.
I am glad the students had the means to expose this travisty.</p>
<p>Again what happened to the womans kids? If she is nuts and can’t be held responsible for false accusations then why are her kids stuck with her? It’s very scary no one is mentioning this. And where is Sharpton and Nancy Grace they are GUILTY of stoking racial fires!!!
Also if they don’t take NIFONG’s license away I heard that he will never go to jail because if the bar doesn’t find it serious enough neither will the criminal court. So the fix is in…give up your license, then apologize and we will keep you out of jail and take your license for a few months to keep people quiet. TOTAL BS system. Big surprise!!!</p>
<p>I love the apology that was made during the reading for voting yes when Nifong lied to the Grievance committee. The panel was worried people might go after lawyers??? HEAVEN FORBID!!! Why create the laws if they can break them and wink!</p>
<p>So…Nifong has now been found guilty on 27 of 32 counts!! Thank God!! I certainly hope that they decide to disbar him during the second phase!</p>
<p>
I would agree with this. I mean, I haven’t read anything declaring this woman to be disconnected from reality. It would seem the burden of proof would on her…not the other way around. Otherwise, I’m going to assume that she was VERY WELL AWARE of what she was doing, as was Nifong.</p>
<p>Kluge-
Who is it that has determined she believed (believes) what she reported was true? Has there been a comprehensive psychiatric/psychological evaluation performed on her? If so, is it confidential or has it been released and available for public disclosure to review? Do we know if she knew (knows) the difference between right and wrong? There were many, many , MANY opportunities along the way for the accuser to say she wasn’t sure, she didn’t recall, or what have you. But no, she just kept changing her story. If she was purely a pawn for Nifong, and he pushed and goaded her to keep going with her story and her accusations, that is one story. If she purposely kept going, and bending the truth as she went along, that is a different story entirely. I have not seen anything published that says she was delusional, psychotic, or otherwise incapable of separating reality from fantasy. If this information exists in the public arena, I would be interested in reading it. If it exists, but is kept confidential,I would still be interested in seeing where that is referenced. Who are the “most people” to whom you refer who believe she though the story she fabricated was true? I am not aware of having seen this in the press.</p>
<p>Like hedoya, am concerned for her children. Has social services not stepped in to evaluate the situation and place the kids in a safe environment if Ms. Mangum is unstable and unable to care for them appropriately?</p>
<p>This article from the NY Post is harsh (and the NY Post is not exactly the best in journalistic elegance, to say the least) but it makes the point about Ms. Mangums lies. <a href=“LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED”>LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED;
<p>I’m just glad that one representative from each family had the chance to let loose on the lies, misrepresentations, incompetence, arrogance, and unethical behavior exhibited by soon-to-be-by-the-grace-of-God-former DA Michael Nifong.</p>
<p>jym, the fact that the stripper had been diagnosed with and treated for serious mental health problems - including a week or more of treatment in an in-patient mental ward within the past couple of years - has been reported before. If she was consciously lying she always had the alternative of retreating behind “I don’t really remember anymore” - and she wouldn’t be the first to do so. She continues to insist she had been assaulted - behavior more consistent with delusion than conscious deception. </p>
<p>Roy Cooper, the AG who was in charge of the investigation after Nifong bowed out, when asked about this after the news conference at which he announced the conclusion that the students were innocent, reported that the people who interviewed her felt that she actually believed her story, even as it changed and was confronted by contradictory evidence, and that there was no plan at that time to prosecute her. I see no reason to question his professionalism or judgment on that question.</p>
<p>
Roy Cooper, though “professional,” is not a MENTAL HEALTH professional, and neither are any of the people who interviewed Mangum regarding this case. They are not qualified to make judgments in that regard, IMHO, and I’d like to see this pursued because NO ONE should be allowed to cause this type of devastating set of events and get off scot free unless they are diagnosed BY A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL as being unable to decipher the difference between fantasy and reality. I sincerely doubt that is the case with Ms. Mangum. People can be treated for all sorts of mental health issues–that doesn’t mean they don’t know fantasy from reality or that they are unaware of the consequences of their actions. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Nifong’s counsel said that Nifong believes disbarment is the appropriate punishment in light of the findings. Nifong waived further appeals.</p>
<p>^^WHOA!!! :eek:</p>
<p>I really, really think Mr. Nifong needs to see a specialist… I am not saying this out of meanness, or schadenfreude, or anything other than the perception that his actions throughout this affair and throughout this week point to some real issues that he needs to work through. I think, after 28 years of being a hard-working, but mediocre, public servant, he snapped on this and needs someone to help him un-snap.</p>
<p>jym~</p>
<p>The article you linked in post #1072 is excellent and reflects my feelings perfectly.</p>
<p>This is especially noteworty…for its TRUTH:
I believe that was the EXACT motivation for this decison.</p>
<p>Also:
AMEN.</p>
<p>Yesterday he said he will resign as DA. </p>
<p>Today, at the last minute, He has his attorney say that he accepts Disbarment and will waive his right to appeal.</p>
<p>Clearly he needs some jail time to teach him that he is no longer in control!!!</p>