<p>"As such, their argument that a court order compelling them to keep on a student who violated community standards by joining such organizations would actually be an actual applicable example of violating their right to free association. "</p>
<p>Who defines community standards? Using your beloved Oberlin, is a student who (on his own time) works for the local Tea Party organization or attends a pro-life rally “violating community standards”?</p>
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<p>It has been defined by the college’s administration with collaboration from the faculty, students, and the college community at large. </p>
<p>Regarding the student joining the organizations you’ve cited, no for two reasons. One both organizations are open to anyone who is interested in joining to support those causes. Second, as registered non-profit political organizations, they aren’t remotely in the same field as a stereotypical fraternity/sorority or a secretive organization with a history of racist animosity and terroristic violence against those of different races and religious creeds like the KKK.</p>
<p>I’m assuming, of course, that the pro-life rally is sponsored by a legitimately registered non-profit political organization promoting that viewpoint and not ones…especially secretive ones which promote terroristic violence.</p>
<p>“One both organizations are open to anyone who is interested in joining to support those causes”</p>
<p>What about an off-campus religious organization that is only open to members of that religion? That’s not “open to anyone.” Or an off campus organization meant for members of a certain ethnic background.</p>
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<p>I forgot to add that both organizations aren’t strictly student organizations. </p>
<p>Since the campus community rules also allow for the student’s right to exercise their religion so long as they do not infringe on the rights of other college community members from doing the same so there will be a conflict with not joining secretive or highly exclusionary groups. Not sure, but then again…students inclined to join such exclusionary religious groups are exceedingly unlikely to select Oberlin or other colleges like it. Isn’t likely to come up. </p>
<p>Incidentally, had a friend at Middlebury who attended when the campus effectively forced all religious groups to not only allow open membership to non-adherents…but also all leadership posts on grounds that excluding them from leadership posts constituted discrimination. Said friend was somewhat troubled by the possibility a militant atheist or even someone with strong closeted anti-Semitic sympathies may end up becoming the president or a senior officer of a campus Jewish religious group he was a part of when he attended. </p>
<p>As far as joining off-campus groups which are racially/ethnically exclusionary, that is likely to result in disciplinary measures for any members happening to be currently enrolled students if the college admins found out about it.</p>
<p>" Said friend was somewhat troubled by the possibility a militant atheist or even someone with strong closeted anti-Semitic sympathies may end up becoming the president or a senior officer of a campus Jewish religious group he was a part of when he attended. "</p>
<p>That makes zero sense. Why would the Jewish student organization vote someone with anti-Semitic views to be the president? Why be “afraid” of such an improbable occurrence?</p>
<p>"Of the hat isn’t racist, but its use amongst a bunch of disrespectful brats strips it, imo, of culture and makes it the brunt of some insensitive joke.
Fried chicken isn’t racist, right?</p>
<p>Still used to mock blacks."</p>
<p>It’s stereotypical of French people to like cheese, crepes, profiteroles. It’s stereotypical of white Americans to like white bread and mayonnaise. It’s stereotypical of African Americans to like fried chicken and watermelon. I’m trying to come up with reasons / distinctions why some of these feel more offensive than others.</p>
<p>Crewdad,</p>
<p>First, prior affiliation with organization may merely mean being a longtime non-adherent member of said organization, not necessarily that they are adherents to said belief. </p>
<p>Also, this is the part which my friend was probably referring to which troubled him:</p>
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<p>A group could be co-opted and there are many very activist groups on college campus. </p>
<p>If a school has 50 Jews and half form a religious club, it may be possible for the group to be taken over by 26 anti-Semitic activists that join the group with intent to hijack and redirect the group.</p>
<p>School rules prohibit excluding folks who may be diametrically opposed to the group. That’s ridiculous and is antithetical(though not unconstitutional) to the right to free association.</p>
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I can’t blame anybody for not knowing–but if they’re going to host a part featuring these hats or other symbols, they’d better find out.</p>
<p>Also, does anybody really believe that these parties are innocent mistakes by students who had no idea that someobody might be offended? My sense of reality tells me that many of these themes are chosen because they are offensive. That’s why education, seminars, teach-ins, etc., do not solve the problem.</p>
<p>I agree w Hunt’s last paragraph. Which begs the question whether getting " outraged" does any good. After all, if they want a rise out of people, what better way to thwart them by not giving them the satisfaction?</p>
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I think your choice is either to ignore it, or to levy some significant punishment. The middle ground–trying to improve awareness and the like–doesn’t get through to these yahoos.</p>
<p>Or protest.</p>
<p>I mean, imho, these college kids are there to get an education. Some of them don’t realize, yet, that acting like a boorish pig will get the disapproval of their peers and community. </p>
<p>Let them face the natural consequences. Nobody is going to be impressed.</p>
<p>I don’t think any older “adult” needs to step in, unless it is their parents who might want to splain things to them a bit about how the world really works. They will get the disapproval of their peers, and change accordingly.</p>
<p>We used to let kids sort some of this out. I think we step in too quickly and don’t let them feel the pressure. I imagine, because this is how it goes, that the sorrorities will decline or cancel mixers, and they will begin to change.</p>
<p>that’s the way the real change happens, imho.</p>
<p>Not speaking specifically of this incident, but there is a “boy who cried wolf” aspect to getting hugely offended over everything.</p>
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But will they really get that disapproval? Will people stop going to their parties? It is my observation that this isn’t very likely. The frats aren’t really interested in the approval or disapproval of members of the Women’s Center, or of the Asian-American Student Association, etc. Maybe if sororities cancelled mixers–but will they?</p>
<p>The hypothetical is silly. If 26 anti Semites hijack the Jewish club, then the Jewish kids will leave and you’re left with the same number of anti Semites you had in the first place so what has changed? It’s a dumb hypothetical.</p>
<p>Sure, some sororities might cancel mixers.</p>
<p>If there is enough pressure they will. </p>
<p>Yes, there will always be a subset of total idiots on any college campus. (or anywhere else, for that matter)</p>
<p>But, I agree with you, either bring the hammer down hard. Or let the kids sort it out. Awareness campaigns tend to be condescending, to those groups being “made aware” as well as to those being advocated for, and ineffective.</p>
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I’d be very interested in knowing if bad behavior by one Greek organization on campus typically, often, or ever results in negative consequences from other Greek organizations–and I mean real consequences, not just a “tut, tut.” Anybody have an example?</p>
<p>These organizations are completely dependent on their reputation. if they begin to get a reputation for racism or bad behavior, the “better” organizations will slowly pull away. </p>
<p>You can find anectodal evidence of this on any campus with greeks.</p>
<p>In the end, if the student body disapproves of their actions, they will be made to change by peer pressure. The greek system IS a system of peer pressure. This is why older adults coming in wouldn’t work nearly as well as the gross out factor from peers.</p>
<p>When my D was about 7 years old, she asked me to buy her one of those hats from a souvenir shop in the heart of SF’s Chinatown, and I did. I also bought her one of those satiny robes, and as an adult, she still wears one she bought at a Hong Kong souvenir shop several years ago. It can be difficult to know when one is being offensive sometimes.</p>