<p>Lol Guttentag was repeated that stat over and over again. Most people who get into Duke and Georgetown choose Duke. Most people who get into Duke and Brown choose both evenly, etc.</p>
<p>Since I’m sticking with the real data put forth by the Duke office of undergraduate admissions (hey, maybe some other schools would have complained if Duke lied…but no one did…) and you seem to think the survey of 3000 students and a model makes it actually a more popular choice among students though actual data shows otherwise…it looks like our debate over what schools attract top students is getting nowhere.</p>
<p>So, since we’re stuck, lets try to find another way around it. Let us assume that the more students that choose a certain university equates to that universities students being stronger - can you agree with that? As in, if Brown gets more cross-applicants than Columbia, Brown will have stronger students. Or, if like you say, Georgetown gets more cross-applicants from Duke, Georgetown’s students will be stronger since the students themselves chose the stronger university, and since more top students went there, the strength of the study body increased. Thus, Georgetowns study body will be stronger than Dukes. And since Georgetown’s student body is stronger, we can assume it attracted more top students. I think this is actually an excellent way of looking at it.</p>
<p>So IMO I think this is a safe overall assumption to make. After all, you titled the thread “Duke’s inability to attract top students.” Does this way of looking at it work for you?</p>
<p>Haha Vienna i actually meant present day, not 25 years ago - alot changes in two decades, specifically Georgetown’s place in the academic pecking order…look at any statistic regarding current student body strength and see that Duke is stronger than Georgetown</p>
<p>Couple of examples:
Georgetown’s SATs - 1290 - 1490
Duke’s SATs 0 1360 - 1540
50ish points gap, more than the gap between Duke and any other school in the country</p>
<p>Number of national merit scholars - long considered to be representative of top students in America
Duke - 110ish
Georgetown - 40ish</p>
<p>Ranking into top feeder schools:
Duke - top 8ish
Georgetown - top 20ish</p>
<p>Rank on US News, THES, newsweek (which is the worst ranking of all) etc.
: Duke wins in all of them by a significant amount</p>
<p>So, instead of talking alumni from decades ago, lets talk strength of students right now…I think thats whats most relevant after all</p>
<p>Banana - I was just using that as an example of an assumption if Smart Guy would say thats a valid prediction</p>
<p>So since Gtowns students aren’t as strong can we assume it gets less students than Duke from cross admits? </p>
<p>In any case, Columbia Brown Dartmouth and Penn have student bodies almost identical in terms of strength - and they split 50% of apps according to Duke admissions</p>
<p>Of course Duke loses 85% of apps to HYPSM - all stronger schools</p>
<p>Northwestern JHU Georgetown and Cornell are in the next category, with Duke edging them out for students - and since Duke’s student body is a bit stronger, this makes sense</p>
<p>See, looking at it from a different perspective breaks the deadlock</p>
<p>Btw pizza eater…I’d rather be a doctor, lawyer, or businessman than a ruler of the world - being a ruler of the world is risky these days…(see Thailand)</p>
<p>You mean like Susan Hockfield (MD), Brendan Sullivan (JD) or Patricia Russo (businesswoman-runs largest colossus in the world)? Or like Tina Jonas, the CFO of the Defense Dept., the largest financial entity in the world ($300 Billion per year at least in expenditure)?</p>
<p>What is it about the Duke board that attracts people who don’t like the school to read and post in it? Our animal magnetism must be hard to resist. That or some people are just really, really insecure…</p>
<p>vienna - thethoughtprocess posted a more than adaquete defense of the fact that Duke does in fact have a stronger student body nowadays.</p>
<p>Yeah, and William and Mary is obviously better than both of them because Thomas Jefferson went there, along with John Marshall, James Monroe, John Tyler, George Washington received some degree there, and John Stewart (!!). How can you dispute that?!</p>
<p>I’m not in on the Vienna-Thought Process squabble, (Like I said earlier I am mad at both schools for not bringing home basketball gold)but if I was hiring a researcher for US News, the Thought Process would be my first choice.</p>
<p>Various people you posted in response to the doctor, lawyer, businessperson comment graduated in the mid to late-mid 20th century. What century is it now?</p>
<p>Actually, I’m fairly sure ttp doesn’t even go here. And even if he does, I’m sure you’re smart enough to know that one student != entire population of a university. So your joke’s lame, trollish, and completely wrong. <em>thumbs up</em></p>
<p>Pizzaman, the people you are mentioning probably graduated somewhere in the late 70s…actually, google will help me verify that
Brendan Sullivan- 1964
Patricia Russo - started working at IBM in 1975 so graduated sometime before that (also went to Harvard post-grad - which Duke places more students into by Georgeown by alot)
Hockfield - early 1970s, went to med school there</p>
<p>In 1975, maybe Georgetown was a better school than Duke. I don’t know. I don’t care. How Duke was 30 years doesn’t matter to me. </p>
<p>Either way, mentioning a few alumni doesn’t prove anything - I said Duke’s student body is stronger as a whole and it is. Don’t pretend famous alumni who went to Georgetown 3-4 decades ago prove anything about Georgetown’s strength relative to Duke today.</p>
<p>When kids apply to colleges, they are considering their future, not the schools past. BTW I take the “TTP should work for US News” as a complement!</p>
<p>TTP,
I probably shouldn’t have inferred that Duke is unable to land top students in the title (“(in)ability”). Surely it does attact top students but this scholarly study looks just at a school’s desirability to applicants. It doesn’t address other stats you seem to love to YELL adnauseam (ie., SATs, feeder schools, rankings, etc). In this case, G-town beats Duke–albeit at a small percentage. Just get over it. And please, oh please, don’t mention Guttenberg’s quotes about cross-admit rates…</p>
<p>It’s an absurd assertion that things haven’t changed since 1999. This is college. Things change from year to year. I will submit to your argument if you want to crunch the numbers from something more recent, but I suspect you’re not interested in doing so. (I certainly am not.)</p>
<p>Duke’s student body is in no way inferior to Harvard or Princeton’s. Duke is just less preferred. With a yield of 40-45%, that’s not a shocker. Who cares???</p>
<p>Add Sylvia Earle to Duke’s famous alumni list. :)</p>
</p>