<p>
</p>
<p>You haven’t offended me, Hunt. I understand your point, I just don’t agree with it and don’t think religion has anything to do with the issue. I feel sorry for her victims, not for her.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work, Hunt.</p>
<p>IMO, Atkins has been shown plenty of mercy in accordance with Judeo-Christian values. She was not stoned to death for one thing. She has not been deprived of medical treatment or sustenance. She has not been tortured or mistreated. She has been allowed visits with family; she was allowed to marry in prison. Our society has been merciful and she will continue to be treated with compassion as a terminally ill patient in prison. </p>
<p>Atkins does not, however, deserve to die in the place of her choosing. I see a modest degree of eye-for-an-eye balance here. Sharon Tate begged for her life and that of her child; she was refused and suffered a horrible fate. So it’s 37 years later and Atkins would like to plead for compassion to die at home. I see justice, not lack of compassion, in the refusal of this request. </p>
<p>The fact that it’s a high-profile case does not present an issue of unfairness to Atkins. As I recall, the Manson family choose these victims *because *of their celebrity and near-celebrity, because the murders would be highly publicized and send a wave of terror through the upper echelon of Los Angeles society. So publicity and notoriety now comes back to help deny Atkins her release. Some would call it karma. To me, an agnostic politically moderate registered Independent, it was totally the right decision.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Where do people even get “seperation of church and state?” I’m pretty sure it is NOT in the US Constitution.</p>
<p>Personally, I would have rather seen her executed a long time ago.</p>
<p>hops_scout, does the “scout” in your screen name have anything to do with the Boy Scouts? If so, I will add the Scout Law into my sermon about the Golden Rule and about Jesus’ attitude toward prisoners.</p>
<p>Yes it does.</p>
<p>A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.</p>
<p>Apparently I’m missing something…</p>
<p>I don’t and can’t support the death penalty, but I am also uncomfortable in making statements about someone else’s Christianity.</p>
<p>“You’re more likely to get parole if you murder somebody with a lower profile.”</p>
<p>Lower profile … yeah, like my niece.</p>
<p>“Apparently I’m missing something…”</p>
<p>Try Kind. That’s pretty close to compassion, I think.</p>
<p>And ZM, I’m just making statements about what Jesus said and did. If somebody else has a different interpretation of those things, I’d be happy to hear them, and, of course, no one is obligated to think that they matter in the first place.</p>
<p>Hunt, my kind of Christianity doesn’t allow for the death penalty, but I can see that people who do support the death penalty are still Christians. And to me, the murder of a pregnant woman and her unborn child is so inhuman, so unthinkable as to provoke a primal type of reaction – that the perpetrator of such a crime is less than human. I really can see that. These crimes make me recoil in absolute revulsion and my response is much harsher than it might be under circumstances where I could find some mitigating factor. Just like the current situation in Israel. I try to pray for the Palestinians and find sympathy, but the glorificationf the cold-blooded murderer of a four-year old is so monstrous as to make the Palestinians seem sub-human to me. Some crimes are just so grotesque as to be outside of the realm of normal response. Maybe others would see it differently, but I am not Christ, just an ordinary Christian trying to find my way, so if sometimes I am diverted from his path, well that’s to be expected. Rage and horror at the perpetrators of crimes such as these are, in my opinion, good things. we can never accept certain behaviors and if a person chooses to engage, then he loses his right to be treated with the same courtesies accorded other people. Modern day shunning, as it were.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>This is the biggest problem with being a Christian-Jesus set the standard so high! As the ubiquitous bracelets of a few years back would ask: WWJD (what would Jesus do?) </p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong…I believe in an afterlife in which the demands of justice will be fulfilled to the fullest, as tempered by mercy and grace. </p>
<p>As for life here on earth, I’d show compassion to a woman who has spent more time in a CA prison than any other woman, who is dying of a brain tumor within 3 months, is paralyzed on one side and has an amputated leg on the other side, and can only speak 3 or 4 sentences a day. </p>
<p>Showing compassion to those who “deserve compassion” is easy–it’s harder to show compassion to those you feel don’t deserve it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah! And I sure ain’t him!</p>
<p>
Yes, and failing to live up to the standard set by Jesus, himself, doesn’t make someone un-Christian. Just human.</p>
<p>What would Jesus do in this case? I think he would show compassion to Atkins by making sure she was not alone in her dying moments, by offering her forgiveness for her crime/sins, by helping to reduce her physical pain as much as possible and by comforting her if she needed it. All of these compassionate acts can be done within the prison system. She need not die alone, in severe pain, without forgiveness (by God, if she believes in Him) and without comfort from a minister, acting in Jesus’ stead.</p>
<p>Absolutely, ZM. We would all be un-Christian if living up to his standard were the criteria of being called Christian–since we all fail to meet that high standard. Please note that I did not call you or anyone un-Christian.</p>
<p>I hope that is the case, momof2inca. She is in a hospital room, guarded by prison guards. I’m sure that there are some rules as to how many people can be in her room or when they can be there. I do hope that they are liberal rules, because that is likely the extent of the compassion she can hope for.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree that none of us can live up to Jesus’ standard. just that, if we choose to be a follower, it’s incumbent on us to act as if we can. (My interpretation, and I’m not talking so much about this case, as about what I think being Christian is about.) I fail every day, but will never use that as an explanation for not trying.</p>
<p>Cowboy Wisdom (?)
- Courtesy of Lyle Lovett</p>
<p>…
"So who says he’ll forgive you
And says that he’ll miss you
And dream of your sweet memory
God does
But I don’t
God will
But I won’t
And that’s the difference
Between God and me</p>
<p>As for me, I liked MO2I’s thoughts on the matter.
.</p>
<p>And I’m sure Jesus would show compassion to the cowboy poet, too…:)</p>
<p>On a less levity-filled note, from a Christian point of view (not saying that’s the only one, just that this is where I found this thread to be) why would one stop at comfort in prison as MO2I suggested; why not release someone who has repented and not able to hurt anyone? What would be the reason–I want you comforted, but not overly comforted? (this is a sincere question, I can’t see why that line is there) Because more retribution needs to be exacted? How will that make anyone truly more healed? I’m not seeing the scripture that says, exact judgment forever. I’m seeing the “forgive your enemies” lines in the Lords Prayer, in the Sermon on the Mount. True forgiving is total, not “i forgive, but.” Again, a tough mark to aim for, but should we just give up the attempt?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree completely, but only a person’s conscience can say if he is trying. That’s not an external judgment.</p>
<p>
I guess for me there are two reasons as a Christian and two as a citizen. As a Christian, I believe that forgiveness must be sought with a sincere heart and I’m not sure that’s the case here. I guess in my (as Kluge would say) contradictory way, my feeling is that if Ms. Atkins could be so insensitive as to ask for compassionate relief, then she’s still not putting her victims ahead of herself. I know that’s unkind, but it is what’s on my mind. I also think that for other people to look at Ms. Atkins and wish her as much comfort and care as possible isn’t at odds with Christian values. One can wish her peace and comfort, but not release from her sentence. As a citizen, I say that a life sentence must mean exactly that. As I said earlier, every prisoner is going to die of something and that’s the sentence they received. Not a surprise sprung at the last minute. I also think that there ARE consequences to one’s actions and sometimes those consequences can’t be wiped away.</p>