Intparent:
Thank you… yes he is hugely interested in Harvey Mudd
Besides the pub universities in state
He is interested in:
Cornell
Columbia
UC Berkeley
Harvey Mudd
USC
Georgia Tech
UC Irvine
UT Austin and Texas A&M
Why did you say Princeton is a “reach” I agree Stanford might be…
I hoped Princeton might be a better chance… no?
THANKS TO EVERYONE for responding so kindly and patiently
His core interest is Music, Math & Languages
His ECs intensively focus on his love for Math
He has scored 5s in all his APs thus far
I appreciate each and every one of your responses
I am assuming you live in California. In that case, UT Austin & Texas A&M are not going to be options, as they are public universities and you are out of state – he won’t get aid there.
Honestly, this is a list of way too many reaches. I don’t think you realize how competitive these schools are. LOTS of candidates have stats similar to his (and some have higher test scores), and really strong ECs. He is a solid candidate, but so are most of the other applicants, and they are taking less than 105 of them at these schools. If he wants to have choices in the spring, he needs more matches. I assume UCI is a safety (and he can apply to all UCs with one application, right? So he probably should).
Intparent:
I have been reading the “Chance Me” thread and most kids with participation in 25 High School Clubs are considered “strong” (I dont see any focus), I got the impression that by high school kids have to have a “core” EC and stick with it.
No we dont live in California, we live in the Mountain NW
4 from his high school were accepted to CA universities, USC, Harvey Mudd, Pomona and UCLA ALL with scholarships
ALL with lower GPAs and ACTs
In fact the kid that got into USC had a ACT of 32 and he got full ride
All the kids that got into CA Universities had lower test scores and grades than he has
So I am a little confused
Another friend of his that got into Georgia Tech in Fall of 2015 and was a mirror image of my son in ECs and AP classes had 33 for ACT and 3.8 for unweighted GPA
So considering that can Georgia Tech be a “reach” for my son?
A lil nervous…
Stay away from the stupid chance me thread. It is full of mostly kids who don’t have a clue about how things work (not saying that anyone does, except the admissions staff that review your application).
The UCs are no longer giving need based institutional aid to OOS students. Something to consider if you need need based aid.
Would he consider some schools in cooler climates? If so, I would suggest Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, RPI. RIT…all places where he could get either good need based aid or good merit aid.
Good that he has his instate publics on there. The rest of this list is a bit top heavy.
You asked about Princeton being a reach? It’s a reach for everyone. The acceptance rate is less than 10%. The applicants, by and large, are very strong students…just like your son. 90% do not get acceoted.
But he should apply if he likes the school. He could be in the 10% who get acceoted…you never know.
You can’t really generalize about ECs, except to say that the students accepted to schools like Stanford, Columbia, Princeton, etc usually have very very strong ECs (often accomplishments at the national level, and often unusual ECs). Chance threads mean nothing – those students haven’t been accepted anyplace.
One thing you need to learn about is the difference between public and private schools. UCLA, UC Berkeley, UC Irvine – all public universities in California that will not give need based aid to an out of state student, and you would have to pay OOS tuition. Georgia Tech is also a public university – again, probably out of reach due to cost. What is your actual state of residence?
I think you should also educate yourself on the different types of aid. Your post seems to be conflating need based aid and merit aid (and possibly the parents or students you talked to confused the two, people will say that “Johnny got a full scholarship” when in fact they got need based aid that was awarded based on his family income, not his academic qualifications).
A couple of resources that I think would be helpful to you:
- A copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges if you don’t have one
- Googling “Common Data Set” and the college name for schools he is interested in. Most schools provide this standardized document with very useful information on accepted student stats, financial aid, etc.
Even if your son’s stats seem to be in line with what you see in the common data set (and honestly, test scores are what you should be looking at), and if his scores are above the 50th percentile, you also have to look at the acceptance rate. If the acceptance rates are below 20%, you really can’t assume is is anything but a reach. Most schools with those acceptance rates get a lot of highly qualified applicants, and turn away a lot of students with stats like your son’s.
@thumper1 has suggested some good schools to consider adding to his list. Also, does his school have Naviance? It can be a helpful tool as well.
Thanks for the detailed response intparent
Much appreciated
I will not believe the Chance Me thread from now on. That thread completely spun a web around me
I live in Montana.
I have looked at Common Data sets of all the colleges he is interested in
I will look at the other book you suggested.
Thumper1: Yes he is also looking at CMU and Virginia Tech etc
I havent looked at RPI and RIT I will definitely look at that.
He aspires for Ivy just like the Top 1% kids across the country
I am hoping he atleast gets into “almost like an Ivy” school
Will he qualify for “need based” aid? If the family income is less than 80k?
Will he able able to get a combination of need based and merit since his stats are so good?
Maybe his EC is not outstanding
But he works for a hardware company’s R&D lab helping develop products, he was hired as a student employee based on his school performance at the age of 16, he works 15 hours a week currently
Intparent: the case of “Johnny” as you mention, the kid’s parents are the top 1% of the state easily
They both are employed and they live in the most expensive neighborhood in the state
So I am wondering what kind of “need based” aid he would have gotten
Can you hide financial information?
That would be so wrong :-S :-S
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He will be a Senior in Fall
unweighted GPA is 3.99,
weighted is 4.47 and
ACT is 34C,
8 AP classes under his belt, he is taking 5 or 6 next year
STEM
Languages
History
English etc
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Princeton will still be a high reach.
Virginia Tech is yet another public university where you would likely be full pay.
Regarding need based aid, you would probably get some aid with your income. Often merit aid and need based aid don’t “stack” – so if you are awarded both, they don’t just add them up and reduce your cost by that. The merit aid only does you any good if you get more merit than the need based aid you qualify for. But each college handled it different (some will reduce federal loans, etc.). And it is not obvious on their website. 
You need to start running the net price calculators on each college website. This is super important – they take your financial information, and give you an estimate of what aid you would get and what your costs would be. You also need to figure out your budget, and what you are willing to pay. Also what seems sensible to borrow. Your kid can only borrow $5,550 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, and $7,500 per year jr and sr year via federal loans (doesn’t sound like he will qualify for Perkins, income is not low enough). Any loans larger than that are going to be YOUR loans – and are not a great idea.
I think if you live in Montana, it is easy to think that a superstar kid is going to be very special in the admission pools at top colleges, and he will get a lot of admissions. Probably the most unique thing about him in those pools from what you have posted is that he is from Montana, and that might be a very slight help. But really, there are TONS of highly qualified kids who get turned away from those schools. A couple jobs of the parent:
- Set the expectation on finances right up front. Don't say, "we'll figure it out later". Get your budget set, and communicate to your son what that looks like. Tell him if you won't take parent loans (again, not a great idea to take them). It works pretty well for a lot of parents to say, "This is how much we can pay -- you need to look for options within that budget". Help him with the net price calculators. You can research merit options by looking at that section of the Common Data Set that shows how many students get it and average amounts, and study the websites as well. You can see that a lot of his colleges give no merit, very little merit, or it is highly competitive.
- Insist that he have a safety that he is willing to attend, he can get into, and you KNOW you can afford. Maybe a WUE school? Be sure he shows interest if they care, etc.
- Insist that he apply to at least a few matches. He wants to have choices in the spring, and could end up with only his safety. Schools like Case, RPI, WPI, etc. Be sure he shows interest if they care, and writes a specific "Why X?" essay if they require it.
- Certainly, let him apply to some reaches. But maybe set a limit on what you will pay for in applications? Let him apply to maybe 4 reaches, but beyond that he has to pay his application fees, for sending scores, and for sending the CSS profile.
- Don't let your head be turned by what you think happened or is happening with other students. Play your own game. It is YOUR family and YOUR finances. Put on blinders and do what makes the most sense for your family. And don't let your kid guilt you over what other students are doing.
Be the adult – it is YOUR retirement that is at risk if you let him pick a choice that is too expensive, and you KNOW he will be unhappy if he has nothing but his safety (or not even that if he doesn’t have safety) in the spring.
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4 from his high school were accepted to CA universities, USC, Harvey Mudd, Pomona and UCLA ALL with scholarships
ALL with lower GPAs and ACTs
In fact the kid that got into USC had a ACT of 32 and he got full ride
All the kids that got into CA Universities had lower test scores and grades than he has
So I am a little confused
Another friend of his that got into Georgia Tech in Fall of 2015 and was a mirror image of my son in ECs and AP classes had 33 for ACT and 3.8 for unweighted GPA
So considering that can Georgia Tech be a “reach” for my son?
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UCLA sometimes gives merit scholarships, but not usually. And, they aren’t giving the need based aid like they used to.
The USC kid may have gotten need-based aid/grants. That wouldn’t be based on his grades or test scores. He may have also received the USC NMF scholarship if he was a NMF.
HMU and Pomona give need-based aid/grants. I don’t think they give scholarships.
I think you may be misusing terms. Grants are “need based.” Scholarships are usually merit-based.
Do you know what aid the GT student got? That is an OOS public. It may give some need-based aid, but probably doesn’t meet need for modest income students because that may be too much aid.
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Don’t let your head be turned by what you think happened or is happening with other students
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^^^^ This!!
You really have no idea if these people are telling you the truth, nor do you know if the schools are changing policies…like the UCs are in regards to OOS aid.
Sacramento really went after the UCs after it discovered how much OOS aid the UCs were giving. The legislators began threatening to cut more budget if the UCs continued giving money away to OOS.
Harvey Mudd does give some merit aid. Just posted this on a different thread, so have the numbers in my head. 
17% of current students have merit aid, and the average amount is about $11,300. However… the ACT of the OP’s kid is only at the 50% mark (the 25-75% range is 33-35). So at least in terms of test scores, he is not near the top of his class. My guess is that a student with income under $80K would get more than that amount anyway in need based aid, so it may not do any good given the current cost of Mudd (over $71,000 for 2016-17 - oof).
Intparent: If he gets accepted at Harvey Mudd then money will not be a factor. I am encouraging him to apply in a good mix of colleges.
Its impossible for me to be negative and discouraging based on what I read across the Internet.
We are applying to a good mix. If he gets accepted to the ones he loves.
We will make it happen
Thanks for your patience and advice
mom2collegekids: Thanks for the tip
We will apply to colleges we think is right for us
I reached out and asked for “opinion” on the Internet. Not sure how many depend wholly on such advice hope no one solely relies on it:)) Its one piece of advice in a million we get in this two year project…
Similarly for F2F feedback… I wonder how many parents stop their kids from applying to a college because "so and so’s daughter got rejected.
I doubt parents stop themselves from applying to a college because someone on the internet asked them not to
Ultimately as parents we will all do what WE think is right
In real world most parents dont share where their kids are planning to apply until they get accepted
The same rule applies for the virtual world too.
Thanks for your patience and advice
HUGELY appreciated
“Its impossible for me to be negative and discouraging based on what I read across the Internet.”
But you have a number of posters chiming in who can offer an adult reality check. These posters aren’t “selling” their expertise, they have quite a bit of accumulated knowledge and experience.
It’s generally tricky to focus too much on "dream"schools. The competition, as someone stated, is ferocious. A lot will depend on just how well he actually completes his application and supplements and how his letters of recommendation come through-- not simply his hs record and standing there.
Do get a Fiske Guide, as suggested. It introduces a wide variety of colleges and details. Then read and re-read what the target college web sites say, first hand from the colleges. (Not just about admissions processes and FAQs, but what these schools actually offer- and value. See how he really matches that, beyond stats.)
Look at Financial Aid for Dummies or How to Pay for College Without Going Broke, in order to get educated on aid. How income and assets matter, what the schools look at when doling out aid.
And go now to run the Net Price Calculators for the colleges you have in mind. Links are found on each college’s Financial Aid pages.
So the cost of Harvey Mudd is going up every year. Let’s conservatively say that the cost will be $73,000 per year. That is a total of $292,000 for four years of college. They don’t give credit for APs or any other college classes taken during high school, so there is no graduating early. Have you run the net price calculator? I would not glibly say cost is not an issue no matter what the school is.
To be honest, it is pretty clear from your posts that you at somewhat naive about the admissions and financial aid process. There is a huge wealth of knowledge out here – ignore it at your own risk.
As far as I can tell there are no full ride scholarships at USC. They offer “up to” full tuition, which is excellent, but not a full ride. Good motto is believe none of what you hear and half of what you see when analyzing anecdotes
@julyrains Isn’t that the whole point of this site? To get that type of information from people who have been in the trenches and try to make the process transparent? I see too many college conversations that happen in hushed tones out here in the suburbs. That’s a huge mistake and doesn’t do anyone any good.
This isn’t the tinfoil-hat internet of news comment sections. You have been given lots of good stuff to work with here. Drilling down on Stanford and Princeton solely because the numbers look like they could work is perilous.
Good luck with the search.
@JulyRains I think applying to many places and many reaches is great for him especially to the schools that are 100% need met without loans. He certainly would be a good candidate for all these great OOS schools like VT, GT, UT, A&M, Michigan, Purdue, etc BUT if you can’t afford to pay for these at the OOS rate 100% you may find yourself in a tough situation come May if none of the reaches work out and really no matter how good his stats are it’s a crapshoot with no hooks (athlete, legacy, nat’l major award winner, URM, etc). For safeties he should apply to a number of the automatic merit scholarship schools that will give him a set amount of money based on his stats. University of Alabama is a popular one. My son got into a few of those OOS your son is considering and he was offered like $400-500 of need based aid at most of them. He did get a large amount of merit from 2 but he was double hooked at both of those.