Each generation progresses

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Re: #19</p>

<p>That describes an idealized and romanticized view of what marriage and family were like 100 years ago.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>

"My grandparents eloped to Elkton Maryland

My parents did the same thing. Mom was 16, dad was 22 and she was not pregnant.</p>

[dstark]

<p>Just look at this thread…babies born out of wedlock 100 years ago.</p>

<p>Freedom. Choice. What kind of freedom do you have if you don’t get to choose your mate? One of the ultimate freedoms is being able to choose your mate. My mom would have chosen somebody else for me. She was hoping I would marry a daughter of a friend of hers. I am not my mother. What kind of crap is that? Being told who to marry…</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>You have to go back to my great great grandparents before finding a generation without divorce in my family. At least on my mom’s side. My grandparents divorced on my dad’s side in the 60s but no known divorces before that.</p>

<p>My family’s a little different as well. No arranged marriages since the mid 1800s at the earliest though my great grandpa disowned my grandma for marrying a Gypsy. </p>

<p>We romanticize the past too much IMO. I’m quite happy in the present where I am not property.</p>

[argbargy]

<p>Yeah, you have one data point. The reality is that now most marriages are ending in divorce, and 41% of kids dont have a father around. </p>

<p>A lot of progress to celebrate.</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>That’s false about the divorce rate. Most are not ending in divorce. </p>

<p>Show me that 41% study. I’d like to see it.</p>

[Beliavsky]

<p>

@ucbalumnus

That describes an idealized and romanticized view of what marriage and family were like 100 years ago.

</p>

<p>[‘Disastrous</a>’ illegitimacy trends - Washington Times - December 1, 2006](<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/dec/1/20061201-084845-1917r/]'Disastrous”>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/dec/1/20061201-084845-1917r/)</p>

<p>

Out-of-wedlock births comprised 5.3 percent of total births in 1960, including 2.3 percent of white births and 23 percent of black births. Today illegitimate births are now approaching 40 percent, a level that will be reached before President Bush completes his second term if the rate of increase in 2005 (2.8 percent) is repeated over the following three years.

</p>

<p>If people did not have children before getting married and having jobs sufficient to support them, there would be less need to “redistribute” money from the responsible to the irresponsible.</p>

[argbargy]

<p>“The black community’s 72 percent rate eclipses that of most other groups: 17 percent of Asians, 29 percent of whites, 53 percent of Hispanics and 66 percent of Native Americans were born to unwed mothers in 2008, the most recent year for which government figures are available. The rate for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent.”
[Blacks</a> struggle with 72 percent unwed mothers rate - Health - Women’s health | NBC News](<a href=“Blacks struggle with 72 percent unwed mothers rate”>Blacks struggle with 72 percent unwed mothers rate)</p>

[dstark]

<p>[U.S&lt;/a&gt;. Teen Pregnancy Rate Continues to Fall - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/06/20/us-teen-pregnancy-rate-continues-to-fall]U.S”>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/06/20/us-teen-pregnancy-rate-continues-to-fall)</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>Let’s be very clear here. Unwed mothers does not always mean a father’s not around. My mother was unwed when I came along, and my father has been around every day of my life. </p>

<p>You can talk about absentee fathers. You can talk about unwed mothers. You can’t say that these kids don’t have fathers around because of marital status.</p>

[argbargy]

<p>Here is a study supporting the half claim. But the big picture is do we think there are really fewer breakups than when kids were getting “interference” from their families?</p>

<p><a href=“Divorce Courses | Extension | USU”>Divorce Courses | Extension | USU;

[argbargy]

<p>

U.S. Teen Pregnancy Rate Continues to Fall - US News and World Report

</p>

<p>You seriously dont know why that isnt relevant?</p>

[dstark]

<p>Maybe divorce is progress…</p>

<p>Why should people spend their lives unhappily married? Life is short…</p>

[dstark]

<p>Why is declining teen pregnancy not relevant?</p>

[Philovitist]

<p>

100 years ago parents put together a couple based on the qualities and characteristics of the individuals. Today couples put themselves together based on qualities of the other partners performance on party drugs and the thoughts of throwing big spectacle weddings for themselves.

</p>

<p>Bull. </p>

<p>

100 years ago it was understood that marriages were bonds that were meant to last and that problems were going to have to be gotten over. Today the concept of a “starter marriage” that can be walked away from is so well established that its a tv series and if someone isnt “giving you what you need” you move on.

</p>

<p>The TV series represents a minority of people. Besides, why should someone unhappy with their marriage stay in it? Is there actually any real reason when there isn’t a child around? Or is that just tradition?</p>

<p>

Any feelings of guilt are properly dealt with by a combination of prescribed mood stabilizers and divorce parties.

</p>

<p>Bull.</p>

<p>

100 years ago your “baby momma” was your wife. Today nearly 75% of black children are born illegitimately and over 50% will grow up without a male figure in the house. The idea of marrying the woman you got pregnant seems foreign to a celebrity like Tom Brady.

</p>

<p>Tom Brady’s values aren’t really an indicator of America’s. 100 years ago, far more than 75% of black children were born as second-class citizens into a cycle of poverty. Perspective.</p>

<p>

100 years ago the way you act was supposed to be a credit to your family. Today “pimpin’” is considered a valid lifestyle.

</p>

<p>Would the person here who considers “pimpin” a valid lifestyle please stand up?</p>

<p>

100 years ago you were supposed to teach a child right from wrong. Today thats an optional unit in the School curriculum.

</p>

<p>Most schools integrate that throughout the curriculum. Public ones, at least. And, of course, 100 years ago people didn’t really go to school. And, of course, there’s nothing to show that parents aren’t doing a better job at moral education than the last generation of parents did.</p>

<p>

100 years ago, kids dated to find a girl who would be a good wife and mother, today they are looking for a bisexual into COF.

</p>

<p>Will the kid here looking for a bisexusl into COF please stand up?</p>

<p>

100 years ago keeping the family together was the most important thing. Today its “we did our best, the government will finishing raising you. We’ll be in Florida or at the Indian casino”.

</p>

<p>Will the parent who says that please stand up?</p>

<p>

I dont know how much more progress we can survive.

</p>

<p>We can ‘survive’ a lot more, actually. We’ve achieved very much in the last 100 years.</p>

<p>

Human society didnt develop codes of morals and responsibilities just to bum you out and provide a backdrop for the Scarlet Letter. They developed independently all over the world because it was the best mechanism to ensure survival and success.

</p>

<p>And the independent development is still going strong. >.></p>

[argbargy]

<p>

Why is declining teen pregnancy not relevant?

</p>

<p>Because it is neither marriage survival rate or illegitimacy rate, which were the two indicators being discussed.</p>

[dstark]

<p>The decline in teenage pregnancy is progress…big time progress.</p>

<p>Why should people be stuck in crappy marriages when they have a limited life span?</p>

<p>Who are you, argbargy, to tell people to stay together when they are miserable?</p>

<p>Where is a person’s freedom of choice on how to live?</p>

<p>You don’t believe in freedom, do you?</p>

[garland]

<p>Well, this was a fun thread, dstark. I for one am glad Grandma and Grandpa fell in love and eloped and had Mom, even if they didn’t quite go through all the steps in the right order.</p>

<p>I’m glad my African-American friend A married the woman he loved, which wouldn’t have been legal in some states a generation ago. I’m glad their beautiful daughter can just be herself and not have to be pigeonholed as to what race she belongs to.</p>

<p>I’m glad my friend B was able to marry the man he loved, and be able to build a life together. They’re young, and that almost must have felt inevitable to them, but for my other friend, P, to be able to finally marry the man he’s been with for over 30 years, well, that must have seemed incredible.</p>

<p>I’m glad that when abuse shows up in a marriage, it’s okay for the abused, most often a woman, to be able to leave without being shunned by the community or told she should just put up with it.</p>

<p>I’m glad we have choices. I’m glad my D knows that I had the choice to get an abortion when I became pregnant, but that instead, her father and I married freely, because we wanted to, not because we “had to.”</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>Truth, gar. </p>

<p>When I was about 15, I found my grandparents’ love letters to each other. My grandpa’s English was terrible but it was amazing how in love they were. Devoted until the very end when they passed away in the same week. My grandpa said he couldn’t live without my grandma, and never had to.</p>

[dstark]

<p>garland, love your post. Love it.</p>

<p>This could have been a great thread…</p>