<p>OP, I feel your frustration. However, I don’t think what happened to your DD is anything unusual. If every kids with stats above last year’s average gets into Harvard, they will all have 20,000 admitted students.</p>
<p>As this is our second time and my nth year studying college application. I don’t think I have ever heard once that the information speaker told anyone not to apply. Their job is to sell the college and drive up the total # of applicants. </p>
<p>As many have said, the admission is stats plus luck in many of these very selective college. On the other hand, a very well written essay or some strong letter of recommedation could over take top stats.</p>
<p>As to the never ending debate of whether one should take easy classes to get A or hard classes. My answer is based on our own children’s situation. They took the hard classes to challenge themself, to be with their peers, and to gain more knowledges. Do you know how boring it is for an advanced student to take the low level classes? In other words, taking tough class should not be because they look good on the transcript. A good student should be able to Ace any class.</p>
<p>For a long period, I was pushing our children to do things that looks good for application only. Thank God the kids know better. They do thing they enjoy doing. When you look at EC of another kid and think they are weak from your point of view. But what you do not is that some of the most common or plain things are most appreciated.</p>
<p>From what you said, your DD sounds like a wonderful student. Please don’t let one decision bother you. She will shine and you will be happy.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say there are admissions offices that blatantly lie or mislead, but many are certainly less than transparent. It’s also clear that many, perhaps most, have initiatives designed to drive as many applicants into their doors as they possibly can through various methods. Unfortunately, one of those methods includes promoting some degree of false hope. I think this is especially true of schools that are trying to move up the rankings ladder. Sure, they may still employ a holistic approach in many instances, but make no mistake about it, some are definitely being proactive about pushing up the numerical stats of their class profile. </p>
<p>I agree that it can be very frustrating to prospective applicants who don’t realize they must sometimes read between the lines and can’t always take the admissions marketing machine at face value.</p>
<p>enough18: If the adcoms honestly did love her recs, rigor, etc, than I find it hard to believe that they didn’t let her in because of a GPA cut off. Perhaps the other students had legacy, URM status, etc?</p>
<p>The other thing to consider, which is less likely but I suppose a possibility (and if true, something for her to work on), is: is there anything in her app that would be a turn-off for the adcoms? Maybe two recs were glowing, but one was less than positive? Maybe her essay was really cheesy? Did she have any suspensions, etc? If her GPA and Scores are above average, it was probably just bad luck, but it might be worth seeing if there is a way to make her application even stronger for RD, if there is any concern on that front.</p>
<p>I agree with everything you said except this. No one is good at everything, and some people who are exceptionally good at most things also fail at a few. It also depends on the rigor of the curriculum: There are schools where no one gets all A’s, and yet send many students to top schools.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t want a lurking youngster to get the impressiontoo easy to do on CCthat unless you have perfect grades, it’s not worth trying for top colleges.</p>
go read je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi’s daughter stats and you’ll cry. Her daughter was rejected at some of the schools that even sent her a note to say her essays were excellent. IIRC, her stats were near perfection as far as I can tell, something like 10 APs, 4.0 uw GPA, 2300+ SAT, and legacy at some schools.</p>
<p>The OP didn’t say what her daughter’s GPA is. Whether or not the “cutoff” statement is true might depend on how low the unweighted GPA is. Are we talking about a 3.4, for example? I don’t think in that context a “cutoff” would mean that everyone with a higher GPA got in – just that the school might not want to accept students with below a given GPA without seeing their senior year midterm grades. </p>
<p>I would note that it is a lot easier for a school to tell a parent that they have a hard policy based on objective criteria than to get into a debate over nuances.</p>
<p>The admission officer clearly stated that for early action there was a clear cutoff for GPA-plain and simple. I am sure that there are many factors that play in a college’s admission process. However, they are not upfront with students or their parents. They present a very rosy picture for those students who do well and give a false sense of being ready for admission. If you don’t believe that you should quit your admissions position.</p>
<p>After having three kids in college, I have come to some conclusions about admissions:</p>
<p>1.Different colleges place differing weights on GPA and SATs. Some place a lot of emphasis on SATs such as CMU. Some are SAT optional.</p>
<ol>
<li>Although there are a few colleges that do look at the strength of the curriculum and the amount of honors/AP courses, in general, a high GPA will take precedence over a kid with slightly lower GPA and all honors courses. This is a HUGE myth that high schools are spreading in order to boost the number of kids taking honors and AP courses in order to raise their high school rankings. In truth, Getting a high GPA, even with all regular courses, trumps getting a lower GPA with all honors. Yes, there are exceptions. However, this is the rule for most schools.</li>
</ol>
<p>Moreover, when in comes to scholarships, unweighted GPA is KING! Keep this in mind.</p>
<p>Finally, when it comes to invitations for honor’s programs, unweighted GPA is king and weighted GPA is generally ignored. I have seen this with my own kids. My son, who didn’t take any honors courses, got a 3.65 GPA and was admitted to the honors programs at our state university. My daughter, who had all honors and APs with a GPA of about 3.5+, didn’t get into the same honors programs despite my daughter having a slightly higher SAT average!</p>
<p>enough, your daughter hasn’t been rejected. A deferral is just that – the school wants more information.</p>
<p>Did you ever ask whether her GPA was high enough for an EA admit prior to applying? Or did you just assume it would be ok, or did you mistakenly believe that an EA applicant had increased chances of admission over an RD admit?</p>
<p>I think sometimes students and parents hear what they want to hear at informational sessions. Every session I ever attended, there was an emphasis on good grades. If students or parents as, “is it better for the student to have A’s in regular courses or B’s in AP courses?” the rep from the school ALWAYS answered, “it’s better to have A’s in the AP courses.”</p>
<p>Of course every school is different and the grading standards of different teachers is variable, but I think it falls into the category of “making excuses” when someone blames a lower GPA on the rigor of the courses. The fact is that there are other students making A’s in those tough courses. I think the A’s in the rigorous courses can signal to a college, “this kid can do well no matter what the challenge” – where a B in the tougher course might signal, “this kid is bright but not really able to handle the extra challenge.” </p>
<p>There IS a lot of hype at informational sessions, but the purpose of those sessions is for families to learn more about the school, not get information on individual “chances”. I think that families typically misuse these sessions by asking questions that they can easily find the answer to on the college web site or figure out on their own --when they should be asking questions geared to learning more about what the school is like after acceptance.</p>
<p>Getting a high GPA with all honors trumps the same GPA with all regular courses. </p>
<p>THAT’s why the colleges focus on the rigor of the curriculum. The top colleges want students who are going to be able to do well in a rigorous academic environment.</p>
<p>Wait a second. Enough18, are you saying that an admissions officer at the college in question told you there was a strict cut-off for unweighted GPA at the Early Action stage? When you complained about your daughter’s deferral?</p>
<p>If this story is true, and this private college really has a cut-off GPA for early action acceptances, I think enough18 needs to tell us the name of this school as a public service for future applicants. I agree with JHS that this story sounds strange. I have also never heard of a strict cut-off like that.</p>
<p>There’s no way you can know that, and it appears to be wrong based on recent reported acceptances on CC. I think we have every reason to believe that, say, 3.6 in a very difficult curriculum is better than 3.8 or even higher in a “standard” curriculum.</p>
<p>Yes generally A’s from all honors courses> A’s from all regular courses> B’s from anything else. HOWEVER, it has been said before in these forums, unweighted GPA is king for the vast majority of schools for both admission, scholarships and honor’s programs. If your kid isn’t capable of getting mostly A’s in honors, but are capable of getting A’s from regular courses, the second approach is better for the reasons noted above.</p>
<p>Moreover, you would be surprised at the huge number of schools that don’t give additional credit for kids that take a lot of honors and AP courses. I have seen this many times. I would bet that, absent about 40 schools, the rest of the colleges don’t count or weigh honors courses. </p>
<p>However, this has to be balanced with the notion that honors and AP courses are generally better preparation for college.</p>
While I’m sure that’s true, you don’t have a chance of getting into the elite (say top 30 USNWR) schools without a healthy dose of honors and AP courses, or failing that you attend a school that has convinced those colleges that their courses are “all honors or AP level”.</p>
<p>I can attest that at least one school in that top 30 will overlook some less than stellar grades if other aspects of the application make the applicant attractive. (BTW I’ve also heard the Yale admissions officer answer the question “B’s in AP/honors or A’s in regular?” with “It’s better to get A’s in APs/honors.”</p>
<p>OP: When you say that your D’s GPA is above average for the school she applied to, did you mean weighted or unweighed? I’d just find it very odd that, if a school did have a cut off, it would be significantly above their average. I’m not saying you’re lying, just trying to get all the info, because that would be a strange policy indeed. I mean, I could maybe see a school thinking that is someone had a GPA at or below average that they wanted to wait to see mid-year grades. But someone already above average? How does that help them? (Unless they think they are going to get WAY more competitive this year). </p>
<p>Of course, schools reject plenty of applicants above average, but you’d think that once you are above average, they’d start to look at other things (at least SAT scores!) when deciding who to cut.</p>
<p>Elite colleges want their applicants to show how they have challenged themselves in their high school years. Now that my first son is half way through the college app season, I’d like to reflect on what it means to “challenge yourself” and “maintain a high GPA”. </p>
<p>In theory, how many things you do (and how deep you go) is only limited by the amount of time you have. We all have 24 hours in a day. The aptitude, will and discipline of the student determines how much he or she can do and still perform at a very high level in all the activities. There is a breaking point for everyone, even for the most gifted. So while Jenny the valedictorian can take 8 AP classes and serve as the captain/head of 4 teams and clubs and still maintain a 4.0, Jenny’s performance will start to slip, possibly even significantly, if she adds one more class or activity to her schedule. She could even reach her breaking point by simply spending a little more time on one of her existing activities. This reminds me of the Chinese spinning plates – you reach a point where you just can’t add another plate without crashing everything.</p>
<p>So, the question is should Jenny stop challenging herself more if the additional time/energy required is going to erode her 4.0 GPA? It really depends on Jenny. What does Jenny want? If by devoting more time Jenny can publish a paper or help more homeless kids or win a big award, then perhaps a 3.8 isn’t all that bad. But, how about a 3.7 or a 3.6 or, gulp, a 3.5? You get my point. Adcoms from elite colleges understand this, and I believe this is one of the reasons why these colleges don’t have a GPA cutoff for admission.</p>
<p>My son has a 3.58 unweighted GPA, but he has done amazing extracurricular things and he has taken the most rigorous course load. I’m sure his GPA suffered because of it. Guess what? I like the amazing things he did and I sure wouldn’t want him to miss them just for the sake of maintaining a 4.0 or a 3.9. He found his passion and I’m glad I didn’t stop him. Did I ever question myself? Sure, more than once. The father in me can’t help but wonder if he could have had at least a 3.7 if he had done less of xyz or if he had dropped abc sooner… But, these doubts went away quickly each time when I see his beaming smile.</p>
<p>As mathmom stated above, many elite colleges will overlook some less than stellar grades if other aspects of the application make the applicant attractive. I can also testify to this. My son has two acceptances and two deferrals from 4 top 20 schools in the EA rounds.</p>
<p>Regarding college admissions, the only thing I’ve ever asked my kids to do was their best at whatever they decided upon. I would never force them to pile on a bunch of AP classes just for the sake of an Adcom - same is true of ECs. Adcoms are so arbitrary that I don’t think trading a kid’s quality of life to impress them is worth it. </p>
<p>The opposite has also been true. If my kids wanted to shedule APs and activities out the wazoo because they enjoy that sort of thing, I don’t put limitations on them for fear their GPA may drop a notch or two. When all is said and done its their life and I resent the idea of them trying to mold themselves to the wishes of adcoms – many of which are made up of people who have never put themselves under similar rigors.</p>