<p>I love JHS’s post. </p>
<p>I think he is correct.</p>
<p>However, how much money could we really save as a society if we weren’t so fat? </p>
<p>You said it yourself. This is also wellcare.</p>
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But it goes back to the fact of rationing. Other places do things more cheaply because they don’t make the luxury choices that we do, and they don’t pay for so much for people who just stroll into their countries and make demands. It’s hard to tell grandpa, who is 75 and loves golf, that he has to be uncomfortable rather than get new knees, but when you have billions of dollars of grandpas who want things every year, your budget has a problem. Maybe if my husband knew that if he doesn’t lose weight at 48, he will have to face the consequences when he’s 60, it will spur him on. But too many people don’t have to face the consequences of their choices and don’t have the vaguest idea of the actual costs of the healthcare they consume. Having that separation is a huge mistake.</p>
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<p>Penzly? It’s not working. Personal responsibility is the only way to fix that problem. Treating the diabetes and providing talking glucose meters is not well care and it’s not a solution.</p>
<p>Zooser…</p>
<p>We are agreeing on responsibility, but treating diabetes is absolutely well care. Amputations and kidney failure are much more expensive than glucose monitors, insulin and dietary education. Right now in most every low income clinic I visit, I see corrective medicine. Not preventive medicine. That is why I say it will take generations to right this ship. Prior to now, many people have no access to information and well care treatments.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, I look at the bottom line. Our healthcare costs too much in absolute and relative terms. Our outcomes are not better.</p>
<p>Our healthcare system is not working. Are there alternatives in the world that are working better? Not in every single circumstance, not in every little detail? Overall?</p>
<p>The answer is yes. </p>
<p>We ration healthcare in this country…today. Let’s be truthful to ourselves. We ration healthcare in this country.</p>
<p>You can’t get artificial knees is Europe?</p>
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So if you run for office I would vote for you, too. That’s all I’m asking for. Honesty from elected officials. Don’t patronize granny, tell her what’s really happening, what it’s going to cost and where it’s going to come from.</p>
<p>In the future, it would be interesting to see how many people here will turn into selfish seniors.</p>
<p>[Health</a> Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html]Health”>http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html)</p>
<p>I like this link…There is a lot of info here…</p>
<p>This is embarassing…</p>
<p>“Pearson: Spending on almost every area of health care is higher in the United States than in other countries. For example, nearly $900 per person per year goes on administrative costs. This is far higher than in, say, France, which spends $300 per person, but which also has a system in which health care services are reimbursed in a similar way to the U.S”</p>
<p>I have good insurance. I am a retiree who gets no coverage from my previous employer. I DO see the other side VERY clearly through the eyes of my two 20 something kids.</p>
<p>
Well in the context of the thread, I don’t really get the whole “early retirement” thing unless one can afford to support one’s own lifestyle for many decades. But I don’t plan to retire. One of my co-workers retired in November at 82 because of Hurricane Sandy, otherwise she would still be here.</p>
<p>Lots of people don’t plan on retiring but life is full of unexpected circumstances.</p>
<p>"busdriver: “People who have great health care often don’t want single payer systems because they don’t want to lose the great deal they feel they have.”</p>
<p>People who have a great deal at the moment can still care about the people who don’t. “I got mine, so screw you” is not an attitude that builds a strong country in the long term. I don’t want to live in a libertarian paradise where people who can’t afford health care die of untreated high blood pressure. We’re talking about preventable suffering and death here.</p>
<p>If people really can’t see beyond their own needs, they still ought to question the system for self-interested reasons. No one is truly safe from the prospect of losing that fantastic employer-based coverage. I bet the people who had great coverage through their jobs at big corporations like Kodak, Pan Am, and Arthur Andersen are seeing the light nowadays. Having a healthy work force and consumer base are pretty important to keeping those corporations alive, too.</p>
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I couldn’t agree with this more. You are so right. It extends from healthcare to other things, as well. Which is what makes me so angry about the letters to my local newspaper. They all basically say “I got mine and to heck with you” and I wonder if they really understand that it’s to heck with their kids and grandkids or they just don’t care.</p>
<p>I love the attitudes of a lot of boomer types. They think they’re different than other generations before them, that they’re taking better care of their health, that they’re going to work until they drop and some are concerned about their children and grandchildren. No matter how well you take care of yourselves, you’re going to get sick and die. It is unlikely that you’re going to just drop dead. You may need long term healthcare for diseases that you could not plan for - Parkinson’s for example. Based on the savings rates I’ve seen for boomers, they should be more concerned how they’re going to survive than their unborn grandchildren because they will be a direct burden on their children.</p>
<p>I have a great “broken system” story on the artificial knees front:</p>
<p>My mother-in-law is 90. She has advanced Alzheimer’s, and has been in a nursing home for the past six years. (As a private pay patient, by the way, although her money is probably going to run out in about 12 months.)</p>
<p>Until recently, at least, we tried to have her out of the nursing home and in the world as much as possible. She was always in great physical shape, and liked nothing more than to take walks or play tennis. As her ability to do anything intellectual receded, walks became more and more important.</p>
<p>Three years ago, at 87, she fell and broke her hip. It was not a terrible break, and we were told she could get almost full functioning back, so we approved hip replacement surgery. She had the hip replacement surgery with no problems, no questions. Then, of course, she was released from the hospital, and needed rehab. Medicare paid for two weeks of PT, and then cut her off. She had never used a cane or a walker, those things didn’t come naturally to her, and her Alzheimer’s made learning new tricks difficult. So after her fabulously expensive orthopedic surgery, she was left an invalid, confined to a wheelchair because she couldn’t get enough PT to learn how to use a walker. What an incredible waste!</p>
<p>She could walk, of course. I used to take her out of the home walking, to show the staff she could do it. I would take her to the supermarket, or Target. She never got enough practice to be able to use walkers, but she sure knew how to use a grocery cart. Until a few months ago, she would cruise the aisles of large supermarkets or Target for an hour or more, happy as a clam . . . and then go back to the nursing home where she was officially not able to walk. (The ACA has made some difference, but too late. The rules on “ameliorative care” changed recently, and now she gets regular walking therapy – but her Alzheimer’s has advanced to the point where she really isn’t stable anymore, even with a walker or a grocery cart.)</p>
<p>I agree with you, DocT, that most people are going to end up with a serious health condition. Most people have multiple serious health conditions by the time they are in their 80’s, even if none of them are life-threatening. And even a very healthy lifestyle is no guarantee, although it certainly improves the odds. Two examples: I know a woman who has always been a health fanatic, who had a major stroke in her early 50’s. And my sister, who has always been very thin, with very good eating and exercise habits, was diagnosed at age 45 with type 1 (NOT type 2) diabetes, auto-immune origin. </p>
<p>I hate it when people ascribe certain attitudes or attributes to an entire generation.</p>
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<p>It is interesting that even the loudest opponents of single-payer medical insurance in the US are not proposing to abolish the existing single-payer medical insurance schemes that the US already has for parts of the population.</p>
<p>You’re absolutely right, NYMomof2. It’s not the entire generation by any means. But this is the first generation with such a small number of kids and such a long life expectancy. We simply, as a society, haven’t made accommodations to account for those major, important changes.</p>
<p>I agree, zooser, that the current demographic changes are the source of many of our current problems. What is the number of working people supporting each retiree these days? Isn’t it down to less than 3 workers/retiree already, and getting worse?</p>
<p>But there is also the problem that many people are working well past retirement age, and not freeing up jobs for younger people. There have been serious proposals to lower the retirement age significantly to open opportunities for new and recent graduates, who are facing such dismal prospects.</p>