<p>The descriptions of publications applies not only to the NIH but pretty much to all fields of science. Anything that goes against the accepted orthodoxy is sandbagged.</p>
<p>“Most US docs can’t afford to earn less.”</p>
<p>Exactly and this is why there is a coming shortage. My daughter is a third year medical student. From my perspective, its a mistake to become a doctor, especially after seeing all the nonsense about what doctors earn.</p>
<p>One-third of US doctors are over 60. There will be a massive doctor shortage just as the baby boomers enter the years when people need the most treatment. Having my daughter go to med school, is my ‘insurance’ plan. The doctor’s mother will always get to the front of the line for appointments and treatment. (:</p>
<p>It’s difficult to compare how things are done in other countries, without looking at influencing factors. I acknowledge that, but I think it’s still important for attempts to be made to correct the current system where there are millions of people who are uninsured and who lack access to healthcare, and to look at how it works elsewhere. The cost of med school is certainly a part of this, but then so is the cost, in general, of post-secondary education in the U.S. I would bet that what we’re paying for my D’s med school in Canada is a fraction of what we’d pay if she were to go to an American school. Students who qualify for government financial aid automatically get half of the funds in the forms of grants. So, from that starting point, student debt doesn’t exist to the same extent. </p>
<p>I’m not idealistic enough to believe that the current health system in the U.S. can ever be changed so that it’s similar to what I have here but I’m hopeful that some aspects will be addressed, finally. I’m well aware that Canada isn’t the U.S., believe me, in so very many ways, and we don’t have the same issues with poverty, crime, income disparity, variations in the quality of public education, etc., but it always surprises me how unwilling so many people are to look at how other countries do things and to look at possible ways to improve policies and services. It strikes me every time I hear the chest-thumping greatest country in the world claims.</p>
<p>NYMomof2: I am quite familiar with “center grants” and I’m also gathering that you are in academics and NIH research and you are unlikely to be objective in this discussion. Your bread and butter has been funding from NIH. That’s quite admirable but it does not make you an objective judge of health care contributions from the private sector.</p>
<p>alwaysamom,</p>
<p>I love Canada, especially BC. I really do. But can you name for me five – okay three – medical devices or drugs that are really valuable in, say, the last decade, coming from Canada? I don’t know that there aren’t any but my suspicion is that Canada, like England and others, waits for the US to fund the device and drug industries to produce the innovation, then piggybacks on it.</p>
<p>Also, what would be my chances of five year survival with stage 3 or 4 breast cancer in Canada? And I don’t know the answer to this question but I read Alice Munro and I believe the treatment protocols are quite . . . shall we say, economic?</p>
<p>In the medical imaging world where I work, GE,Siemens,Philips,Samsung, are the largest. Only one is based in the US. We do an incredible amount of development, testing etc outside of the US.</p>
<p>sewhappy, who said anything about center grants? I have an R01. You set yourself up as an expert in this area because you “worked on NIH-funded research” at universities (in what capacity?), but you consider me unqualified to participate in this discussion? Fine, I’m done - I’ll leave it to you.</p>
<p>sewhappy, I’m not sure about the answers to your question about medical devices or drugs so I won’t even guess but I’m curious what that has to do with anything that I said in my previous post.</p>
<p>As for survival rates, I imagine you can get those figures with some googling. I have three friends who are survivors of stage 3 breast cancer, two at 12 years and one at 17 years. I also have had the unfortunate experience of one of my children being diagnosed with cancer. Her treatment and recovery covered a period of time where we moved from the U.S. back to Canada and I can assure you that the care she received here was every bit as good as that received in the U.S. She’s the one who is now in med school. I don’t know what Alice Munro has written about her treatment. I do know she was treated for both cancer and heart disease a few years ago. She talked about it at a fundraising dinner I was a part of in Toronto and had nothing but good things to say about her care that night. Not sure what you mean by the protocols being ‘economic’.</p>
<p>dstark: my mom would prefer not to die right now, but she’s not afraid to. And she won’t undergo a major invasive procedure just because she can or a doctor mentions it (this isn’t hypothetical; the recent finding of an abdominal aneurism led to quite a few conversations. And her final word was “I’m not having some doctor open me up, so I can go to rehab for a few months then get pneumonia.”) She’d rather have a good quality of life than add days on “being somebody’s guinea pig.” </p>
<p>And I’m very glad that no one in this country dies from complications of strep throat anymore. I wasn’t suggesting that they should! But the reality is that by conquering the treatable ailments now that had high mortality rates in generations past, we’re now dealing with a lot of people ages 80+ whose “plumbing” is starting to wear out. Many are not good surgical candidates, yet tests are still done to get answers and IMHO as a way to prevent future lawsuits. Less early deaths = more complicated senior medical situations. I totally understand Zoosermom’s comments re: her mom’s situation.</p>
<p>Ok RobD, thanks.</p>
<p>NyMomOf2, I know it is hard, but don’t let the nonsense get you down. Others appreciate your views, like me.</p>
<p>It’s funny…I read this thread and I might come away thinking the major drug companies are US companies. Many are…but, there are many European companies that are pretty large too. And there are quite a few Japanese companies. And Genentech and Genzyme, biotech companies, are now European companies…</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies</a></p>
<p>" but it always surprises me how unwilling so many people are to look at how other countries do things and to look at possible ways to improve policies and services. It strikes me every time I hear the chest-thumping greatest country in the world claims."</p>
<p>It doesn’t surprise me, but…I don’t…want to say anything. ;)</p>
<p>Alwaysamom, I totally agree that there are important problems that need to be addressed, but they need to be resolved in the context of our demographic, which is quite different.</p>
<p>I favor Medicare for all with the ability to purchase private Medigap plans. </p>
<p>Canada has 43,000 patients a year seek treatment in the US. The US has 6 million patients seek treatment outside the US</p>
<p>I may get beaten up for saying this, but I think medical education should be subsidized. I also like tom’s plan</p>
<p>I agree with the both of you. the education is too expensive. Or, too, we could look into how they do it in other countries where they don’t have to get a Bachelors degree first, which just adds years, cost and debt.</p>
<p>I dream that we could have Medical Service Academies- like West Point and the Naval Academy</p>
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<p>Zoosermom, I absolutely agree. The issues are different, no doubt about it. I get discouraged when I think about some of the issues facing the U.S. because they seem insurmountable. When I hear stories like the one on the news tonight about Detroit having 411 murders and Chicago having over 500 murders in 2012, it breaks my heart because so many problems seem so hopeless. I don’t purport to have the answers but I do think that in the context of this discussion, that some of the issues surrounding healthcare can benefit from seeing how things are done elsewhere.</p>
<p>We can definitely benefit from seeing what others do. Take what works, leave what doesn’t.i just sat and read in depth the poverty statistics for Canada. Very different situation.</p>
<p>@always- if you think that’s bad, 1 in every 542 residents in Flint were murdered last year. Residents there consider murdered friends and relatives the norm. </p>
<p>@zoose- A country recently did that. I think it was Singapore. It was quite an interesting process if you’d like to look at what they did :)</p>