What option a middle class student has if he gets into all 8 ivies and want to attend one?
Presumably ,that smart student and her family checked their financial position before deciding to apply, weren’t shooting in the dark. Smart kids, smart enough to hpothetically get into multiple elites, should be smart enough to first consider what they can afford. And be realistic, not dreamy, no wishful thinking.
Let’s not asume rich kids aren’t smart and accomplished or that low SES kids can’t possibly be competitive. Let’s remember that for most generous colleges, there is still a student/family contribution for poorer kids.
Sure, the donut families may not find it easy to pay for college. That’s not a plot to tailor their class in certain fashion. It’s an issue across the board.
@lookingforward How did you come to middle class student being superior conclusion? I commented on them not being inferior and having as many distinguished scholars as rich or poor peer groups.
Yes. They are in their own. This is very clear and I hope they do make good decisions. Just mentioning there is no support for this group but their parents if they know the process or can sponsor.
Your words, “there are only so many students who are creme de la creme and its a safe guess that a significant percentage of those students are middle class.”
@CupCakeMuffins Where did you son end up committing? I am thinking that you told him he had to turn down Amherst because you cannot afford it. Now, you are resentful.
Amherst does not offer merit money. Who would they give it to? Every student there is extraordinary. Merit is a way of attracting students who perform at a much higher level than most students at that college. Amherst does not need to do that. Even if they DID offer merit money, how do you know your son would have gotten it?
Based on your previous threads, the reason you couldn’t afford Amherst is because you pay for two the colleges of nephews in a foreign country. But for that outlay of money, you could have sent your son to Amherst. Amherst – indeed, no college – is going to subsidize your nephews. They do not subsidize personal choices.
May son got off of a waitlist where he’ll go but our dilemma made me understand this issue better. He is exceptional and even if parents or ivies or Amherst didn’t help him, he has merit scholarships at decent colleges and he’ll make it on his own without anybody’s help. Many of his bright friends didn’t get enough merit from good colleges and many parents can’t or won’t cover high EFC so its worse for these kids and made my son feel fortunate.
As far as not subsidizing personal choices, its not up to the students to make those choices.
"My point is about middle class kids being punished by colleges, families, loan agencies. What option a middle class student has if he gets into all 8 ivies and want to attend one? Parents say no, colleges say no and loan agencies say no. These teen get no sympathy, just asked to compromise and handover that spot to next poor or rich teen.They can go attend “lesser” colleges but so can rich and poor smart kids.
Even in admissions, admission counselors know these pattrens, they can tell wich income range is less likely to attend even if offered. I doubt it doesnt play into yield protection at some level. If they can offer free FA ride or know student is wealthy enough to worry about expenses, why would they pick a middle class student who is more likely to say no as he can’t pay."
I helped a kid with his application strategy and financial aid strategy a few years ago. His family was the perfect example of the statistical middle class. (I’m not talking about someone who lives in Chappaqua NY and “feels” poor on $250K per year. Which is a thing btw, but they are not middle class no matter how they spin it). Statistical middle class, two working parents, own a home with some equity, and a retirement account, some modest college savings.
Princeton’s financial aid ended up being $5 off from where the Net Price Calculator said it would be; it was by FAR the cheapest option for this kid (PA resident, so both Drexel and Penn State were much more expensive for his family.)
Cupcake- I don’t think you have facts to offer here. You often talk about the middle class in ways which make me suspect you are talking about people who earn $180K+ per year. That’s not middle class. You often talk about parents who can’t or won’t cover their EFC’s-- but it doesn’t seem to be because one parent is on dialysis and has high out of pocket medical expenses, it’s because they have upper income lifestyles which they won’t trim to pay for college.
So dial it back. It stinks to be poor. But to claim that it’s worse to be middle class- or upper middle class- wow, that’s just completely tone deaf. A middle class kid who can get into an ivy is likely to get a much better deal there than at virtually any other college except for West Point and the other academies (free) or commuting from home to a state U with low tuition but high dorm costs (many of them).
Here’s where you are missing the point. U.S. college financial aid is based on the premise that PARENTS are the first source of funding for their own children’s college. That’s just the way it works. I understand that you don’t like it. So just say that you WISH colleges would give financial aid to families who choose to spend their available funds on things other than their own children’s college expenses. It’s OK to have that wish, but at the same time you have to acknowledge the reality—that they do not subsidize parents’ personal choices. Again: U.S. financial aid is based on the premise that PARENTS are the first source of funding for their own children’s college.
One more thing: Merit money is a bribe, not a reward. Merit money is not to “help” students (even though it does help those who get it). Merit money is for the benefit of the college, to attract students with stats that will raise the college’s averages and help them rise in the rankings.
Even if I’m naive, wrong and biased on every count, the fact remains that no children (rich, middle or poor)have any control over if or how their parents earn or spend.
No one said it is the child’s decision or control. Brantly said, “you could have sent your son to Amherst. Amherst – indeed, no college – is going to subsidize your nephews. They do not subsidize personal choices.”
This refers to your choices. You have presented yourself as the parent here.
Your choice to underwrite your nephews, at the expense of your son. Fine, Your choice. Not Amherst’s responsibility to cover. They don’t give more money for other discretionary choices, either.
Colleges have no control over it either, so why should they shoulder the burden of the consequences of your actions instead of your kid? Providing for your family isn’t their responsibility.
Yes it does. You are correct. But that’s irrelevant to the college financial aid system. Parents are the primary funding source for a college education in this country. You are ABLE to fund Amherst, but your CHOSE to do something else with the money. Not your son’s fault. But not the college’s responsibility.
That’s true-- but in our country, kids are entitled to a free education through grade 12… but after that, they are mostly on their own. They may qualify for about $5000 a year in Pell grant money if their parents are poor enough; they can qualify to borrow $5500 up to $7500 a year; and they may qualify for work-study jobs to earn a few thousand more in hourly wages. That’s it – that is how our system works.
There are other government programs to help young people. My son worked half time for Americorps while in school, for minimum wages, but it came with an educational benefit that he later used to help pay off his student loans. Kids who are willing to commit to military service can get ROTC scholarships — and kids who are willing to go straight into the military after high school will qualify for educational benefits when they are discharged --as well as being classified as independent students for financial aid, so they won’t be saddled by their parents’ choices to spend money on thing other than saving for their college.
Lots of bad things happen to kids because they can’t control what their parents do. Their parents may divorce, and that means some will live in near-poverty with a working, single parent who makes barely enough to stay afloat, but won’t qualify for financial aid because the colleges will insist on factoring income of a wealthier, noncontributing, noncustodial parent.
As frustrating as it is for many, we live in country with many relatively inexpensive ways to get a college education. Most states do have affordable public 4-year college options, even if it in at a “directional” college rather than at the flagship state U.
Wow! You’ve been indignant in your posts but it’s your child that should be indignant…at you! Your responsibility is to him, not your nephews.
I’m always surprised at posts from folks who complain about inadequate aid and then it’s revealed that they can’t afford college because they’re sending money to relatives. Yes, that’s their right. But no college is going to give aid just so that practice can continue otherwise the college would essentially be providing money for those relatives. In those cases families need to simply tell their kids not to apply to schools that only give need based aid.
When your child was applying did you tell him that you can’t afford to pay much because you’re paying for his cousins’ educations?
It may be a crime to help orphans but colleges do subsidize other poor choices of parents, all the time colleges give FA to ones who don’t earn well or spend earnings instead of living frugally and saving.
My son knows it well and supports us, if it wasn’t for a health situation which may decrease income and increase expenses, we were expecting to pay whatever it took. Obviously, weren’t considering an early retirement when made the committment to help out. It was indeed poor planning. If he didn’t have other good options and it was between community college vs Amherst then obviously we would have made a different decision.
Actually, the Ivies and other top universities and LACs are very generous with their financial aid. If you run the NPCs you can see that they DO offer FA to middle class families. The “lesser” colleges you mention generally don’t, so that’s where merit aid is needed. We ran the NPC on many colleges and there was a huge difference between what top schools would offer us compared to colleges that do give merit aid. What works for one family doesn’t necessarily work for another. But a kid from the real middle class will get FA at the colleges you mentioned. If you are making a lot of money but haven’t saved much and “feel” middle class because of your choices then, yes, you’re probably not going to get much aid if any.
As far as merit aid goes, it’s complicated. My alma mater gives some and there are alums pushing for them to stop. They are saying that it benefits the kids who don’t need the money. What’s the right answer? Well, for us we went with what worked best for our family. I’m glad your son has an option that can work for him.
This is inaccurate. Nobody is saying you shouldn’t pay for your nephews’ educations. They’re just saying not to expect US colleges to help you do it. It’s not a"choice" to be poor, and most financial aid offices don’t provide enough aid for a meaningful number of low income students to attend. They also aren’t giving lots of aid to people who blow through their earnings. Income is the main driver of families’ EFC, and those who earn a lot but don’t save for college will be out of luck.
First time i’ve ever heard my decision to devote my professional life to low income first generation college students a “poor choice” because it means my kids qualify for need based financial aid! I get that you’re upset, but … wow. Everyone who doesn’t “earn well” (whatever that means) made a poor choice?
Any kid who has the qualifications to get into an Ivy can also qualify to get into many colleges likely to offer substantial merit aid.
And parents who have such high income or assets that they don’t qualify for financial aid usually can afford the costs to send their kids to their in-state public universities.
You might as well ask what “option” a truly middle class person has if they want to drive a Tesla or charter a private jet. (They drive Toyotas and fly commercial in economy seats… but they get where they are going all the same.)
Yes-- life circumstances do change and sometimes parents or their kids were not prepared. But that’s life. It could be and often is a lot worse for people… settling for a less prestigious college is pretty trivial in the greater scheme of things.
@ordinarylives I’m not generalizing, just saying it happens as well. Not everyone who has lower EFC is a victim of circumstances or working for higher cause, some don’t work hard or overspend and build debt instead of savings.
@calmmom They can but so can every single one of those students who get in these colleges with or without aid is good enough to attend some college for free so this is not even an issue for any good student, rich or poor or middle.