Educated and Cheaper by the Dozen - February CC Book Club Selection

The only context where I could accept sanitizing books is in a purely entertaining book for children. Any book that purports to teach us anything about the world as is was when it was written (or earlier) has to be true to that world.

Straying a bit from the topic, I’ve just finished “A Tsar of Love and Techno” by Anthony Marra, set in Russia. It’s a beautiful although a very sad book, which I highly recommend. It starts with a depiction of a painter in 1930’s Russia who was tasked with removing the latest jailed and/or shot officials from all group portraits.

I’m reading all the comments with interest but haven’t had time to gather my thoughts enough to post. My daughter had her baby (first child - girl - my second grandchild - first granddaughter) last night and needless to say we’ve been otherwise preoccupied the last couple days. I feel the need to add that the baby is healthy and beautiful. Hey, I’m the grandmother. :wink:

I find the comments thoughtful; they are enriching my reading, as usual. I haven’t been able to spend time on the linked info but look forward to doing so.

Whoo hoo! Congratulations!!

Congratulations, @ignatius! How exciting!

Hoisting a glass celebrating your new granddaughter @ignatius!
You now have a boy and a girl. How exciting for your family !!!

Woohoo @ignatius ! I’m still waiting for someone to get married!

Idaho is an interesting place, so beautiful, but definitely a magnet for some questionable people.

Congratulations, @ignatius! That is wonderful news!

I don’t know much about Mormonism, so I’ll tread lightly here, but it seems that Gene’s faith is practiced in extremes: Mormonism reveres modesty, so he rails against the dance costume (the daughters of “good Mormons…jumping about like whores in the Lord’s house”). However, music is an important aspect of the faith, so he enthusiastically embraces Tara’s singing. And in some small way, apart from religion, there is the idea that “music hath charms to soothe a savage breast.” Tara writes:

I thought the “Tiny Harlots” chapter was interesting because of Tara’s mother’s behavior. She drives 40 miles to buy the leotard and tights for Tara, but then lies to her husband after the recital, acting as if she had no idea what the dancers would be wearing, describing the outfits as shocking and obscene. Fear of her husband runs deep.

Also, just a shout-out to one of the kind people in this memoir: It was nice of the dance teacher Caroline to design the entire group’s costumes to make Tara more comfortable (even if it didn’t work, in the end).

I don’t know much about LDS, either, but the family is described as fundamentalist Mormons. Tara’s mainstream-Mormon classmates at BYU shocked her by wearing form-fitting clothes and clothes that were less modest. I know BYU female athletes wear typical uniforms for volleyball, gymnastics and other sports. Their dance team and cheer may be slightly more modest than other universities, but nothing extremely different. I wonder if her dad’s issue with the dance costume was a religious objection, or just against his own sensibilities, or just a way to control his household.

I looked at Google maps and census data to get a feel for how really isolated they were. If I interpreted Tara’s descriptions accurately, they lived at the base of Buck Peak about 25 minutes by car from the nearest town of Clifton. Clifton’s population is about 300 and it has a post office, a library, an LDS church, a deli and a tiny grocery, but not much else. All the schools are in another town five miles away. That town is Dayton and it has only two streets going north/south. It’s population is about 450. Dayton also has an LDS Church and a post office plus the high school and elementary schools. The next town is Preston with a population of about 5000. They have more to offer - grocery stores, Burger King, Pizza Hut, liquor store, small service and retail businesses, including a store front for the Westover oils. They have several LDS churches plus a couple of other denominations. That’s probably the town Tara’s mom went to to buy the dance leotard, and where Tara got her ACT study materials.

The mother is a contradiction. She had the independence and courage to become a midwife and the entrepreneurial skills to create a successful business, yet she was so dominated by her husband. For me, she’s the most complicated character in the book. Tara said about her: “She’s really talented, really competent, but she is really submissive and passive. She will always defer to my father.” I wonder what is her background story.

Tara’s maternal grandmother was horrified at how her son-in-law controlled his wife. She knew her daughter/the wife knew better but was controlled. That scene where the grandmother asks Dad why he’s never taught his children to wash their hands after using the bathroom was laugh-out-loud funny, and horrifying at the same time. “I teach my kids not to piss on their hands!”

@csfmap, thanks for situating Tara’s home for us. That gives me a good picture of how remote she was from “mainstream” civilization.

She also had that peculiar method of faith healing – or more accurately, faith diagnosing: “muscle testing.” I understand that there is a link between body and mind in the healing process, but as with everything else in the Westover family, it’s taken too far. Passages like this made me think she, too, had some sort of mental illness:

Congrats on the new granddaughter, @ignatius !

I read Educated a year or two ago when it first came out and did not reread, so I’m refreshing/reliving through your posts. I had forgotten the dance recital and all its complications.

It struck me while reading Cheaper how the tone of each family was set by a dominating father. Lillian was no shrinking passive woman, by any means, but she was along for the ride (in Foolish Carriage and in life). I was glad to read more of her own accomplishments in your links!

At first I could not stand Frank-- such an entitled egomaniac! Bursting into the classroom and telling the teacher how to educate his kids. The mean trick with the horn. All the buffoonery upon entering a hotel. Calm down, man, you are not the center of the universe! (I knew this was intended to be funny, and I wondered how this group would take it. I was happy/relieved that you all had some criticisms of him, too!)

As I worked through the book, the real joy and affection in Frank Jr. and Ernestine’s tale warmed me up some. And the siblings cared for and looked out for one another. That reminded me of my dad’s family-- he also was one of 12 kids. Like in the Gilbreth family, each older one was assigned a younger one to take care of. That created special bonds that lasted into adulthood and old age. And like the Gilbreths, they all felt special being part of “the twelve,” even though youngest and oldest had little time in the household together. It was a strong part of their identities, all their lives.

Yes, there’s more to education than book learning – basic hygiene was also missing from Tara’s homeschooling. She realizes later that her college housemates, Shannon and Mary, must have had the same reaction as her grandma. Tara never helps with the chores, seldom bathes or showers, and still doesn’t wash her hands after using the bathroom.

I’d be curious to hear what Shannon and Mary remember about that phase of Tara’s life, but I couldn’t find any interviews out there with any of the book’s peripheral characters.

I thought Tara sounded like the world’s worst roommate!

It was hard to believe that she really grew up in a pigsty, even if there were things like the handwashing that her Dad made fun of.

^ @mary13 it would be interesting to hear the roommates views of Tara.

I can’t remember if Tara’ mother’s brain injury ( I had forgotten that she too had brain impairment from an accident ) happened before all the “clicking” or after.

thank you @csfmap for the details about the towns, and distances to larger places, Preston 5,000 people.
Clifton, with 300 residents, is shockingly small. Clearly, when Tara pulled away from family, there was “no going back home” Ever for Tara.
Had she been raised in Salt Lake City, she could have returned and lived her life, but a town or 300, everyone knows the Westovers.

I’m glad to know that Hayden Lake the site of the Aryan Nations, right win supremicists is an 8 hour drive from Clifton,

I know a fair amount about Mormons, and Val (Genes) religious views would be considered cult like by the mainstream Mormons, and the survivalist, end of days stuff just makes him more renegade.

I’m struck, often, by how much prejudice there is against Mormons. Believe me I understand how unusual their views are, but I respect their beliefs , as I would any other religion.

Kudos to Tara for not antagonizing the LDS church.

Re: Val’s mother Connie. She was mainstream Mormon married, or sealed as they say, in the Mormon temple which is only for the devout.

Here is her obit.
And, how is it possible Val’s father had two brain surgeries.

Seriously, how is it so many of the family members were brain damaged?

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/hjnews/obituary.aspx?n=connie-westover&pid=131943772

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/hjnews/obituary.aspx?n=don-westover&pid=175281823&fhid=6828

I’m one of “only” seven, but this holds true for us as well. We are all about a year apart, and very close as adults. I wonder if this is part of the reason Tara kept trying to return to Shawn & family, even when it was unwise.

The “rules of dominance and hierarchy” that Tara learned were pretty skewed though.

Oh, you’re right! I would guess that factored into her unusual (obsessive) clicking behavior.

Tara’s mother is lucky she survived that accident.

This was a great discussion! Thanks, everyone!

Normally, this is the time that I would suggest we pick our next book. But we’ve already done that! So I’ll see you guys on the other thread.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/2170786-middlemarch-april-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html

For anyone who is not reading Middlemarch with us (or is a speed reader), what book are you picking up next?