I would just like to emphasize that my point in this thread is not to encourage people to take up underwater basketweaving as a ticket to Harvard, but rather to suggest that when preparing your application for highly selective schools, carefully consider those things you do or experiences you have had that might be of interest to the reviewers. These may not be the most impressive things you have done.
I would also add that I take with a few grains of salt charts or statements about how important various factors are to different colleges, including the essay. I’m not suggesting that these statements are deliberately untrue, but they may be more aspirational than realistic. Thus, for example, even if a college says that essays are very important, it may actually be quite rare for an essay to make a significant difference one way or the other. I think what’s important is the whole package, including the essay and everything else.
I think what we all came to recognize, Hunt, is just how hard it is to put a finger on the ANDs.
And right, the CDS is NOT gospel. In the quest for the holy recipe for the secret sauce, I think people lean on the CDS more than they should. Nothing makes it absolute.
For activities, what I sometimes tell kids is to take a 3-prong approach- this seems to CYA. What you do to pursue your own interests and future goals (might be that hobby, might be the STEM kid who gets some experience, the poli sci ki who gets involved;) what you do for your group(s) (your hs peers or your cultural group, religious, whatever it is;) and what you do for your community. There’s some overlap.
I agree. Objectively winning some state level medal at the Science Olympiad is more impressive than helping the neighborhood association index their files, but my kid was able to make the latter into a much more interesting essay than the first when asked about his “favorite EC”. So he used the more interesting essay, which ended with something like the line “It really made me feel like a historian” as opposed to some generic essay about the fun of competing.
I think it gets back to genuine curiosity and engagement. The highest-performing students have spent more than a decade excelling at answering questions. The best among them are the ones who also excel at asking questions: they have the lively minds that will continue to challenge themselves and grow, be it in Arts, Technology, Medicine, Science, Public Service, or any other discipline. They are the ones the colleges are trying to sift out from mountains of similarly impressive applications.
Would a student that worked summers as a Massachusetts Lobsterman or, say, a Maryland Oysterman be considered an “and” factor or an interesting " breath of fresh air?"
Menlopark - I think you’re completely wrong. Working as a Massachusetts lobsterman or Maryland oysterman or similar would be a TREMENDOUS “and” for a student who already possesses the relevant academic credentials. It’s a breath of fresh air AND you learn lessons about life from those kinds of things. It would totally stand out in a world of newspaper editors and varsity tennis team captains and first-chair violinists.
My impression was the poster was fishing [ pun intended] for an " and" , NOT that he had ALREADY worked during the summers as a Fisherman in Maryland or as a Lobster man In Mass. What are the chances that a HS student has the opportunity to choose between summer fishing jobs in 2 different fishing industries in 2 separate states?
Just my 2 cents…
All you had to do was check the poster’s posts. Anyway what difference does it make if the student had done it or hadn’t yet done it? It’s still a great stand-out-from-the-crowd.
I thought the poster wasn’t trying to be too specific. Being a fisherman oneself, or having a parent who did that as daily work, would be an AND in my book. Fresh air is not having a parent who is a teacher, JD! MD! PhD, businessperson.
Re: posts #344 & #345 - Those could be interesting additions to an application, if all the other factors are outstanding. I think an admissions office could well look more favorably upon an applicant who spent the summer that way than on the hundreds who attended identical, expensive, elite “enhancement” programs. Other posts have noted that any features that identify an applicant (e.g. “The Boise Ballerina” or the “Lobstering Linguist”) in a memorable way can help lift an application out of the thousands of “kid-with-great-grades-and-test-scores-who-played-a-sport-and-joined-some-clubs.” The basic academic chops have to be there, regardless.
It’s even better if the summer jobs support an overall narrative. Working-class kids should never be penalized for seeking paid employment instead of “intellectual” extracurriculars. If you sought a fisheries job out of an interest in Marine Biology, or because you love the coast and the water, or wanted to study the vanishing cultures, that should also be part of your profile.
^ But the vast majority of applicants have trouble presenting a clear narrative, and many muddle the waters with extraneous activities. Instead of deepening a narrative, they add on superficial activities or try to make themselves into someone they’re not.
Know why the lobster or crab thing would be interesting? Because it’s local industry, very hard work, there’s little chance of slacking off. And if there were some consistency- not some one-two week little oh, let’s see how the other half lives. It could make an interesting essay, if done right. But yes, you need the goods behind it. And no, it’s not a hook. The kid could show some interesting perspective in an essay, show what the college values.
Yes, most kids have trouble presenting a clear narrative. And yes, they get far too bogged down by the advice to “just be themselves” or “pursue their own passions.” Life’s not like that, there are things we do because we should (or must) and sure, some hs activities can be of that sort.
To me, the test for an AND is whether a member of an admissions committee is likely to say, “Hey, that’s cool” after hearing it. Personally, that would be my reaction to (say): “He has a 4.0 GPA, SAT of 2290, competes in debate and swimming AND he spent last summer working on a lobster boat in Maine.” Note that it’s not a competitive achievement–the kid who was second chair viola in the All-State Orchestra may have worked much harder to achieve that. But nobody’s going to say, “Hey, that’s cool” about being second chair viola. They may say, “Great, the orchestra director has told us that good viola players are needed this year,” but that’s something different.