Mathprof I think coming from a lower tier high school, one that has never sent a kid to an Ivy, for instance, increases the chance of admission for kids with the “AND” factor. There is a lot of talk a out socioeconomic diversity on selective campuses, for one thing, and a kid who can achieve something in the context of a poorer quality school shows an ability to overcome obstacles as well as an inner drive.
I have read that given the choice between a kid from a prep school and a kid from a lesser high school (who has some achievement potential), colleges like Ivies will go for the latter, because the prep school kid will do fine anywhere and the lower-income kid will benefit more from the opportunity. Sorry I cannot cite this!
I don’t think it is just lower SES . It’s the IT factor.
My son was the first from his HS to be accepted at his college. He had formed a math club, found A sponsor, and took Few kids to state. Head of honors society, had a business. After him, the college opened their eyes. Next year, a tech school accepted 3! From his HS, a first.
I cannot say enough about his friends. One went to Peace Corps, and
now is in a top law school. Another close friend in Navy academy now flying. Another, the Presential scholar, to HPY, now working at a great company. Every so often, the planets line up just right…
I can’t be more proud of these kids. I wish them every happiness.
While it is not necessarily to be completely maxed out (4.0 unweighted with lots of post-AP college courses, 2400 SAT, 36 ACT, 5 scores in all AP tests, etc.), the academic credentials do need to be top end by normal standards. The students asking if their “unique [whatever]” will compensate for their 3.2 GPA at HYPetc are not being realistic (and their “unique” aspect is probably far from unique on a national scale).
@compmom - yes, I would agree with that about the lower level high school. From their stats, about 14% are first gen students. We’re now up to 65% of the pie taken up by private school + international + first gen, assuming first gen are all from public schools - may not entirely be correct, but I don’t think that will change the numbers much.
That just means unhooked public high school students from more affluent, mainly non-first gen communities (a fairly large subgroup of the applicants) are all vying for an even smaller portion of the pie . From a probability point of view, it seems a private high school kid may have better odds of admission compared to a public school kid in the same economic bracket.
The AND doesn’t need to be at the level of rocket scientist or curing cancer. My S1 played a card game, went to regional card tournaments, and eventually became a judge for the game. It was his passion, and he wrote several of his essays about it.
@HRSMom the thing is, it doesn’t have to be that way. There are so many “manufactured” kids, who are products of hyper competitive high schools, stressed out by overbearing parents and who hire consultants to package them for thousands of dollars that AOs I’m sure are refreshed to see a kid who has a genuine passion that they can articulate in their application, in their own words. Sure, you want HPYS, you’ve got to be the master of everything (unless you’re hooked), but if you start looking in the ranked 20th and below (which are 99%+ of all universities and colleges out there) you can get in by being a solid overall student (solid as it relates to the averages of your given target) and talking about what you love in your own voice.
I think the point was that it was not something expected like working on cancer research or rocket science, but something offbeat, interesting and very individual- and not driven by college admissions if possible!
Mathprof good and interesting point about the higher-ranked, higher income bracket high schools. The same group that also gets hit with full pay but falls between those who get a full ride and those who have less trouble paying.
Other posters here have mentioned the importance of superb essays. I wholeheartedly agree that an AND is crucial, and want to add this: the essay is the ideal (if, functionally, not the ONLY) way to convey an applicant’s AND factor. It amazes me how frequently this fact is overlooked. This thread is one of the few honest elite admissions threads I’ve seen on here.
Also a good point. I think of admissions like cupcakes. The solid cake, hooks might be the frosting, and then the “AND”'s as Hunt describes them are like the sprinkles on top. (But I think my percentages might be off!)
Again, not all successful applicants to top schools have something like this. But if you do have something like this, don’t suppress it in your application.
It is a future thing. They are expecting you to continue with an & or else you are not right for the college. Essentially, you need to be interested in things other than your getting through your major for you to be a fit.
The problem is that now students will start to look for a unique “and,” instead of just pursuing something they’re interested in. Remember the good old days, when students played a sport because they enjoyed it and not because they were supposed to? Or played a musical instrument, or did volunteer work, and so forth and so on.
I think it also can be a thoughtful combo or pairing (NOT a laundry list). My S’s application consistently showcased his interest in music and in astronomy, and he showed intersections in them in several ways, in his activities, his essay and in the recs which touched on this. Someone on CC once said you should be the “Adjective Noun”–in his case, the Trombone-playing Astronomer.
I also think coming from a lower SES HS, NOT the more common affluent-area public school, actually helped him, even though he himself did not come from a lower SES family. Very few students from the school apply to Ivies, but a surprisingly high percentage of the ones that do get accepted.
“Sure, you want HPYS, you’ve got to be the master of everything (unless you’re hooked), but if you start looking in the ranked 20th and below (which are 99%+ of all universities and colleges out there) you can get in by being a solid overall student (solid as it relates to the averages of your given target) and talking about what you love in your own voice.”
I wanted to comment really for the purpose of making sure that kids reading this don’t get discouraged if they don’t have an “AND.” My D is a BWRK whom I love dearly but who really did not have an “AND” and she was admitted to more than one top 20 school.
