Even without an AND, the majority of them should find their way into a top college, assuming they are not applying only to 3 colleges and their parents are willing and able to pay their EFC. However, for the ultra selective few, they do need AND’s. The ones who don’t need an AND are the “lopsided” talents such as - a 17 year old rocket scientist. Everyone else needs at least one AND and maybe more. Some can have it easy. For example, they happen to be born into a super rich family and their father is ready to donate a few million (i.e. “development case”) and some happen to be born into a family of “URM”. That AND is powerful, if they have good to excellent grades and test scores. For the rest of those with high stats, the AND’s are necessary. High stats only often times are not enough for the super selective. On the other hand, for those athletic, artistic and other talents these colleges are recruiting, excellent academics are not necessary. To them, their recruitable talent is the “main dish”, and their AND is to meet the academic “threshold”… Talking about the multi-faceted “institutional needs”.
“I am guessing their application pool does not consist of 40% private school kids…”
I don’t doubt it all. CC seems to think that all publics are like their generally affluent, aspiring public hs. There are 30000 high schools in the country, the vast majority in which not a single student has ever thought about an elite school, much less applied. I think it’s quite possible private school kids could be far over represented in the applicant pool and hence the admitted pool.
@hunt. It is a good tip.
I must admit, it is frustrating for kids who find themselves to be “typical or boring” bc they don’t have an oddity. These kids are the meat and potatoes of these elite schools, though. The clowns and saw players are the side dish, hopefully not the norm.
I’m off to search for someone to teach my S to play the Yale fight song using only a chain saw…recommendations;)?
I can only speak about Yale, but it’s my observation that a very large percentage of the students there do have some pretty interesting activities beyond academics. It may just be that this is a common trait of super-competitive students.
But it’s not about an oddity. It doesn’t have to be strange or odd or bizarre or unusual. It just has to be interesting. A breath of fresh air.
^ Even a different spin on something many others have done…
Personally, I have never been surprised by it; it’s quite logical. Private high schools, overall (not all, of course, but the ones which are more demanding and more selective than some) not only admit higher-level students from the get-go, but they also, importantly, prepare those students for success at similarly difficult private colleges. Retention rate is a big deal at any college, but especially at high-profile private interested in keeping their respective “positions” and prestige. And there’s a consistency at such high schools, within the curriculum year-to-year, within the staff, which --if the school is well-run and not administratively dysfunctional – tends to stay there for absolutely years. Poorly functioning administrations suffer from high teacher turnover, which also affects morale of staff & student body and produces uneven academic results. IOW, although one will find students in some publics who can match the best within the private high schools, there is less consistency and uniformity in the educational product. Thus, fewer, percentage wise, are selected for elites.
OTOH, for certain good public university systems, a public in-state high school which offers a competitive curriculum is often the best way to go for that admission path, especially if/since the public U admits somewhat by formula (weighted grades, scores, and numerical points for various categories of the application). That is because, at least in some publics in some States, the grade inflation is obscene and the parents exert enormous pressure upon the faculty & administration, who often cave in to parental demands for grades.
The problem with the latter is that you can’t have it both ways. Mere grade inflation at a public will not necessarily result in a stunning teacher rec for an elite private college. It doesn’t “translate.” Too many parents do not understand this fundamental difference, insisting that if the student is, quantitatively, material for the State’s top flagship, he or she is necessarily similarly advantaged for a private college. Not necessarily (and usually not).
In this other thread, a former Cornell admissions officer talks about “level of awesomeness” and mentions (twice) a kid who built a weather station in his house. See http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1799182-ivy-league-admissions-officer-reveals-how-they-pick-students.html
Good thread.
Imo, when it comes to the single digit schools, ALL kids need the right ANDs. Contrary to the opinions of CC hs kids and some parents, your hs excellence is shared by thousands of others who present with 4.0 and good scores, the same old combo of hs activities. Those elements are often the product of your school district’s offerings and expectations, not a reflection of your own might. The right ANDs are more about you personally.
But lots of folks confuse “unique” or “standing out” with what the colleges really seek. They don’t need you to unicycle to school or build that nuclear generator in your garage or whatever you think no one else does. They need you to show the ordinary vision and follow through that leads to adult success and some awareness of and caring for those around you. You can’t claim that, you have to show it.
One of the more important ANDs to me is “AND comes across as a nice kid.” (Which is a whole lot more than being loved by friends and family.) That’s part of the “gets it” about life, your time, what you take on (including both related to your academic interests and some breadth) and your perspective. Very hard to fake or buy from a private counselor. So forget the unicycle, just get activated and grow and be savvy enough to be receptive to good advice.
No, you don’t need major awards. That’s the same ‘in the box’ hierarchical thinking. They’re nice, but they aren’t ANDs.
I think the “ands” helped both my kids, though one had the grades, ranks and scores that put him in a slightly higher slot of eliteness possiblities than the other.
For the oldest the “and” was really just being a really, really capable computer nerd with letters from at least two outside adults who said he programmed as well or better than grad students or professionals in their employ. I think he also managed to show his sense of humor in his essay, even though it was more “good for an engineer” than a truly great essay.
My other son had an unusual hobby/business making origami earrings. He also wrote some pretty funny and clever essays. He was not afraid to take some risks with them. (For example, he listed all the reasons he didn’t want to go to U of Chicago in his “why Chicago?” essay - which they commented on when they sent him a holiday card after the EA acceptance.)
Judging by the essays of those who are admitted to Harvard and Stanford, perhaps the “AND” needs to be either coping with difficulty/overcoming adversity or demonstrating growth and improvement/being optimistic : http://www.businessinsider.com/these-words-mark-the-difference-between-a-winning-college-acceptance-essay-at-harvard-versus-stanford-2015-8
^Regarding the above, I was surprised by the prevalence of the word “cancer” in the essays of accepted students at Harvard. I wondered if many students themselves had battled with cancer, or whether they wrote about their experience watching a grandparent or other loved one deal with cancer. I had thought essays about grandparents dying and the student dealing with a “tough” (another key word) medical problem were too old hat.
There could be a big difference between the essays of admitted students, and essays that made a difference in whether a student was admitted or not.
The source for those essays is an external stat-up, not the schools themselves. How do they get them? or rather, who says they’re representative?
One link from the Bus Insider article says they offered students money. And we had a thread about the supposed records availability, then (last time I checked,) the entire issue went dark.
There’s a lot we still don’t know about this start-up. I didn’t check deep, but don’t see what their database really is, how fresh, how accurate, what the real numbers are behind the word crunching. There are other sites that purport to share H essays, eg, and most of those are not very exciting.
I don’t know how much it counts as an “AND,” but I hope that colleges look for evidence of actual intellectual curiosity among applicants. I see so many high-stat students posting on threads who seem to lack any true love of learning for learning’s sake. The student who is wedded to the prestige of a college “brand” is likely to reveal that unknowingly in an application as opposed to the one who has drooled over the course catalog as if it were Nieman-Marcus’ Christmas catalog.
I’m sure that intellectual curiosity is something they try to look for, but other than the essays (which might not seem to apply to that topic to many kids) and the letters of recommendation, how’s a college to know? I don’t think anyone at his school has a clue about the range of things that interest my kid. It’s not something colleges can see from the transcript, because the course options when you have to take English, social studies, foreign language, math, science, and PE/health every year are not wide ranging at most high schools.
I posted on the “weaker signal, more noise” thread that you could get a good picture of my son’s interests from his Wikipedia browsing history. I’ve heard that some colleges ask for a list of books you’ve read in the past year. Maybe a Wikipedia topic history would give an idea of interest in learning for learning’s sake.
(The past week on his PC: Politics of Sweden, List of countries by GDP per capita, Bernie Sanders, Morning star (weapon), Altruism, Ideological Turing Test, Information cascade, Electronic dance music, Braille, Lunar laser ranging experiment, Earth-Moon communication, Water splitting, Stonewall riots.)
^So did your son write / is your son writing about his reading habits in has placation essays?
Love it, Ynotgo. I remember my surprise when I learned D1 (then in college) had CNN as her home page. I think you get intellectual curiosity from the way a kid self presents. Blah-blah-blah or some excitement conveyed, some neat observation. Same as with some/few chance-me kids who seem to have a spark. I used to say the whole darned app is a test. Stanford called it entrepreneurial about one’s education (or learning or some such.) Most kids get to the word entrepreneurial and think it means programming apps or earning a few bucks.