Nothing wrong with an interest in Egyptology. It does not necessarily isolate one, nor suggest a lack of social skills. Odd example.
I am hard pressed to come up with an example of something that a student might be passionate about, but that reflects “isolation, self-limits, judgment, etc.” (Presumably, that’s poor judgment.)
If Egyptology is not an example of a passionate interest that might reflect “isolation,” how about going off into a separate room to “work on barnacles”? Or living alone underground all summer, as a dry run for the boredom of travel to Mars, as a member of a manned space mission? Or working on an elaborate tapestry, and then hiding it in the attic, rather than showing it to anyone? What is an example that a student might actually mention that shows poor judgment? Something like cow tipping as a hobby? Who would mention that? I really don’t know.
Barnacles sounds fascinating to me. Same with pre-Mars. Do we really need a named example?
If living alone underground all summer does not reflect “isolation,” I don’t know what would! A student passion that is also “self-limiting”? Um, running a taste test of every type of breakfast cereal available at the local grocery store?
Oh, c’mon, Q, you;re being so deadly literal again. :-/
It’s not too tough to find examples of ill-advised passions. Ethnic jokes, WOW, stalking celebrities, white power causes, and mind expansion through drugs are all thing one could be passionate about, but in most cases they wouldn’t be passions that would enhance a college application.
My son’s first passion was a less-usual sport in which he’d been participating since he was young, the other on-line gaming. Guess which one he wrote about in his college essay?
Now that he’s in college he’s involved in the club that encompasses his sport and has taught courses for other students for free. OTOH, a couple times a month he stays up way too late with his roommate and shoots at fake terrorists while drinking. It’s not hard to see which “passion” is offering more to the school community.
Warren Buffett(I think it was him) once talked about investing by asking listeners to pick out one person in their class that they could get 10% of their earnings for life. If you do that in a classroom, most of the kids would likely pick from a handful of their classmates. That’s the “AND” that colleges are looking for that is so difficult to extract out of an application. Classmates know because they have been with these kids for years. They don’t necessarily pick the smartest or best looking or whatever, but they know who will be successful. Admissions officers unfortunately do not have that same insider info.
Haven’t had a chance to read most of the replies yet, but I couldn’t help thinking of this hilarious essay. http://www.fnord.org/occult/high-weirdness/thesis-of-superman
I’m responding to the comment, “You can be passionate about things that run counter to the overall a college is looking for, maybe reflect isolation, self-limits, judgment, etc.” I did take that statement at face value. Then I tried to connect the statement to something that an applicant might be extremely interested in, which fits that description. For me, it has been extremely hard to think of anything legal that fits the bill. (C’mon, barnacles? Really?)
I don’t understand the point of being negative about (legal) topics that might be of passionate interest to a student, if my example of holing up underground all summer is perfectly ok, and doesn’t snag the “might-reflect-isolation” trip-wire. Was it about solo video gaming?
So maybe hs kids should get to choose? After all, they like Billy or Susie- and by 12th, they know what makes college and life success? Billy is class president and Susie is kind and started a popular club? (Or vice versa.) Forget the application and a college’s values, the community it tries to build and the adcoms who work with profiles year in and year out, not to mention the opinions of teachers and GCs, just let hs kids tell you? Ever look back at your own hs yearbook, the kid voted most likely to succeed?
Boy, that would make it easier to get into, HYPSM- til the class fills up, that is.
We’re getting distracted.
"If you do that in a classroom, most of the kids would likely pick from a handful of their classmates. That’s the “AND” that colleges are looking for that is so difficult to extract out of an application. "
Are you serious? High school popularity contest?
From my personal experience, there is no shortage of "AND"s among the elite college hopefuls… as others have pointed out, it is not uncommon for a student to be talented at both math and music, or be committed to both a sport and volunteer work. (I’ve noticed that many of the “Chance Me” threads have remarkably similar ECs…) Because particular activities are more common, however, those students might be perceived as being less passionate or creative.
Of all the students in my high school graduating class, the one who impressed me the most was a girl who loved fitness and got certified as a Zumba instructor (she was also training for Pilates instruction, I believe). She led fun classes during lunch periods open for anyone at school, including teachers/staff. She also taught free classes at the local community center, mostly for moms who wanted an upbeat workout. She’s now at a top 20 university. Although I’m sure she also had excellent grades, her creativity in sharing her workouts with others was really cool (and probably set her apart from classmates on the debate team, volunteering as tutors, etc.)
Of course there’s nothing wrong with the more “typical” ECs, but it’s possible that they’re perceived as less interesting. A student might join mock trial or the math team because that’s what all the other smart kids do. It’s kind of like being pre-med… while there are plenty of pre-med students who are genuinely fascinated by anatomy and pathophysiology and want to care for sick people, there are many others who are pre-med by default… hence the huge population of incoming pre-med college students.
All that to say, I’m not totally convinced that “AND” is the key to college admissions. For some students, it might be, but others might have a single interest or activity that punches above its weight.
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it is not uncommon for a student to be talented at both math and music,
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IMHO, this is just not adequate, for those super prestigious schools, that is. I know plenty of kids (if not majority) who can claim this. I am thinking about my kids’ Calc BC classes. I believe all of them got 5 on the AP tests and I am pretty sure most (if not all) know how to play an instrument or two. And I am pretty sure not all of them are at HYPSM. :o)
Perhaps, I sound snobbish. But I think cracking the top 20 research U or LAC (US news ranking) is not difficult. However, cracking those 5 HYPSM is a very different ball game.
At any rate, I am happy that I do not have a horse in this race. Often, I am just an outsider looking in and could not help but be amazed at some of the accomplishments of these young people.
I am pretty aware that we are on CC. Majority of “normal” people will find this conversation a bit strange and neurotic. Most parents will be incredible happy for their kids to attend affordable, decent colleges in top 100-300.
High school seniors vote for our government. They can fight in wars. Are they too stupid to pick a classmate who will succeed? I think you underestimate them, and overestimate the wisdom of college admissions officers, who are barely older than those they are evaluating in many cases. A 19 year old is ignorant, yet the 24 year old is brilliant? I think not.
Yes, it was me in my high school, and you would be damn happy to have 10% of my earnings in life. I wasn’t in any club, didn’t play any sports, didn’t participate in a single extracurricular. How did they know?
I don’t think the most popular kids would ever get chosen as the theoretical source of earnings. You are most popular in HS for really stupid reasons. Ask your own kids who they would choose.
You don’t get it. I’m glad you were voted most likely to succeed. “What other hs classmates think” is a measure that often favors suck-ups. It certainly favors extroverts. And it certainly favors the obnoxious culture of paying attention to everyone else’s business instead of just putting your head down and doing my own thing.
My kids each had significant ECs that were based outside the school. No one other than their close friends would have known about these ECs. They were enough of an “AND” to catch the eye of elite school adcoms.
We’ve always portrayed the pov that you’re never going to see the vast majority of these people (kids you went to hs with) again in our lives, so what the collective “they” need to know about you is minimal, and spending your time impressing them is a waste of time. Have your close friends, great. The rest of them? Who cares?
So no, I reject the fact that there’s some magic crowd wisdom among 17 yos.
“Perhaps, I sound snobbish. But I think cracking the top 20 research U or LAC (US news ranking) is not difficult. However, cracking those 5 HYPSM is a very different ball game.”
I think it’s odd to slice the bologna so thin. At any 10,000 foot level, it’s all the same.
I am still trying to come up with an example that fits the statement: “You can be passionate about things that run counter to the overall a college is looking for, maybe reflect isolation, self-limits, judgment, etc.”
This statement nags at me, because it seems to go beyond, “This is a great applicant, but we just don’t have room for all the great applicants we would like to admit,” over into “Well, we certainly aren’t taking him/her!” I don’t understand where the negativity comes from–and this statement does seem to indicate a real dislike for some types of applicants, which it would be best for a student who would like to go to a top 50 school not to activate accidentally.
Passions for things that run counter to what the college is looking for overall, yet are legal? Here are my next stabs at this, since Barnacle Chuck Darwin apparently passes muster, and would not be excluded on these grounds.
Candidate A: I am passionate about 1940’s polka music. I love to play on my accordion, inexplicably named “Old Wheezy” by my friends (who, incidentally and also inexplicably seem to be fewer in number these days). I am self-taught! I rescued Old Wheezy from the trash can outside the local Goodwill drop-off, and renovated him. I will definitely be bringing Old Wheezy to campus with me, because I particularly enjoy playing every day for about an hour just before I go to sleep at 4 am. It takes a lot of muscular power to play continuously, but I also enjoy that as a form of exercise. In order to keep cool while playing, in the winter I will open my dorm windows. That way, the entire quad can enjoy the music as much as I do.
Candidate B: In pursuit of an international title in kick-boxing, I have honed my reflexes to split-second and razor sharp. However, I do not anticipate that any problems will result from this after I enroll at Highly Prestigious University. As long as my fellow students maintain a clear 5-foot radius around me in all directions at all times, they will not wind up slammed against any walls.
Candidate C: Garlic is one of the most remarkable agricultural products! For good reason, it has been thought to cure colds, increase SAT scores by up to 400 points, and repel vampires! So I am an enthusiastic garlic farmer! Although I cannot bring my entire multi-acre garlic farm to campus with me (I do plan weekly flights home to work with my garlic), I will be bringing a 6 foot by 8 foot specially designed garlic-growing box to campus. I am sure it will fit into the dorm room with no problem. Also, cooking garlic is a second passion of mine. I think garlic tastes best when it can be cooked to transparency. I am still refining the temperature profile to accomplish this, so I will need to bring a gas stove to the dorm room. I am sure that I can tap into the dorm’s gas line safely!
@pizzagirl,
Perhaps it’s because I came from a small high school class, but if I had taken Warren Buffett’s deal, mentioned by @parent1337 in post 106 I would have made money hand over fist.
@QuantMech, I gave some examples in post #. It’s not illegal to be a member of the KKK but I would steer clear of candidates who list organizing White Power rallies among their activities.
A candidate who likes video games does not necessarily pose a problem, but I would advise an applicant against listing Mortal Kombat or GTA (extremely violent video games) as his “passion.”
A candidate who’s obsessed with the Real Housewives of New Jersey has a passion, but the fact that she has spend countless hours watching and rewatching episodes and reading RHONJ blogs does not make this passion desirable to colleges.
QM, why do you make this so hard? One can claim to be “passionate” about things that really, in the particular scheme of things, are meaningless to your college admissions review. What the freak?
As for hs kids choosing their peers for top colleges, spend a little time on the chance-me threads and you will see how hs kids, those 16-17 year olds who have yet to live on their own, who are so mired in their own little hs boxes that they struggle for perspective, are misguided in what the colleges seek. They rail when their val friend is rejected or fuss endlessly on threads about who scammed whom. Informed always beats anecdotal and too many of these kids, on their own, never even learn what their own target colleges seek.
Spend a little time reading apps and see how little too many kids know abut the values of a particular college, what makes a match, or what sort of essay expresses what the colleges need to see in a candidate, what makes one a more natural likely than another. It simply isn’t popularity, whose peers have faith in him or her.
Let the adult reps of the colleges, who know those schools, decide who they feel best fits and will thrive, per that college’s values, its experiences, its strengths. Not some hs kid from his one little microcosm. Not those kids who think leadership is a hs title or founding some meaningless club or tell each other not to do more because they just know it will be seen as padding.
All the elites emphasize the whole, the community, a level of thinking and choosing that goes beyond whether the ordinary hs kid thinks Johnny is super.