Embryo implanted in wrong woman

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am a Democrat. I am in favor of a public option–in fact, I am in favor of single-payor universal health care.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I really do not see the behavior and motivation ascribed to zoosermom here by AnudduhMom. And btw, if you are so assiduously checking her posts, I’m sure you will have noted that she has used the word “ugly” to describe behavior in the past. It’s a construction she favors. It has nothing to do with race. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.</p>

<p>I’d suggest taking the fight you are trying to pick to the political forum.</p>

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<p>Then there’s the story of Carolyn Savage.</p>

<p><a href=“Sept.%2021”>quote</a> – In a few short weeks, Carolyn Savage will give birth after going through in vitro fertilization. But she and her husband will be forced to say hello and goodbye in just a few moments before they give the baby up – because the baby she’s carrying belongs to someone else.</p>

<p>Savage was implanted with another couple’s embryos at an **Ohio fertility clinic **in February.

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<p>Highlighted the Ohio so it was clear that this kind of mistake is not limited to NHS-style health care systems. </p>

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<p>Human error can happen anywhere. Bravo to Carolyn for having the courage and generosity to carry this baby to term for the sake of the biological parents.</p>

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<p>If they could put in stuff headed for the trash, what else could they put in?</p>

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The story was all over the Internet. I first read about it on the AOL welcome page.</p>

<p>This is still not the politics forum.</p>

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<p>I find that posting the Wikipedia section on ad hominem abusive to be sufficient for these kinds of arguments. You don’t have to defend yourself - you’re just pointing out that the other person made an error in reasoning. In this case, the person knew that he or she was making an error in reasoning and did so anyways. I don’t understand that but there are people out there that do so.</p>

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<p>Thanks BCEagle. I try to keep politics out of the parents cafe and I know that was why Pima chose to post that story here. </p>

<p>As a mom, the whole thing tears my insides out.</p>

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<p>Anudduh…you take a huge leap on why I selected that link…I selected it because it was the only one that was print and not video. I saw it on the Today show. I never even heard of free republic. I try to keep with TOS and not link blogs or video, thus, it placed me there.</p>

<p>It is shocking that zooser and I were attacked because we stated that there are other issues involved, that when I first saw the story that I did not think of. It was through others posting that made me realize that there are a ton of legal ramifications. It was never about the woman having an abortion, especially since I support the right to choose. It was about the fact that the embryo donor was informed after the implantation and subsequent abortion, on top of being told it was damaged, which is different than destroyed. </p>

<p>Back on topic.</p>

<p>The Savage family are amazing people. However, the case is still a little different because that was a fertilized egg that both parents would be biological. In essence she became a surrogate. I feel for them on how do you explain that Mommy is carrying somebody elses baby. The case in the UK, would have been the birth mother was carrying the biological mothers embryo while the biological father was her(birth mom) mate…so in essence you have 3 different people involved directly. </p>

<p>I think that IVF is wonderful, but wonder if we have federal regs in place tight enough. First it was octomom, than the 60 yr old mom with quads, now this. I do not want them to stop this medical wonder, but it leads me to believe that there are some shoddy IVF clinics out there. This is true, for any part of the world, I understand that, so please don’t go down that route of attacking other industries. This thread is about the implantation of embryos, that are rarely done incorrectly, yet have life changing results.</p>

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<p>A poster said that UK health has an incident rate under 0.5. 0.5 would be 250 incidents per year which seems like a lot to me. If you consider the tolerances on automobiles at Toyota and Honda that are extremely complex to produce and consider industry programs like Six Sigma, you’d realize that this level of error shouldn’t be tolerated.</p>

<p>Yes, quality costs money (not always though) but it can be done by improving process and procedure in many cases.</p>

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<p>Oy vey. No woman, surrogate or not, is merely a walking womb. Every woman in the US has the right to terminate a pregnancy up until the legal date in her state. So far, no woman can be forced to carry a pregnancy.</p>

<p>As for Carolyn Savage, I respect that she is walking her walk. I would also respect a woman who make the difficult choice of putting her own health first and terminated the pregnancy.</p>

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I would too. There’s just no good answer here. Just terrible.</p>

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<p>I wonder if the other woman would consider being implanted with one of the Savage’s embryos and carrying it for them in return…</p>

<p>BTW, regarding the “boyfriend” noted by Wis in the UK case: the article notes that they have been together for 17 years. Who knows why they have chosen not to legalize their relationship, but clearly it is a committed one.</p>

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<p>bulletandpima –</p>

<p>I see how that could happen; if that was really your intention, I sincerely apologize. Although please note that I had no trouble posting the link to the original timesonline article, here it is again:
<a href=“http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6494055.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2[/url]”>The Times & The Sunday Times: breaking news & today's latest headlines; and
[Woman</a> aborts other mother’s last embryo - Times Online](<a href=“http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6493900.ece]Woman”>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6493900.ece)</p>

<p>There was never any need to post a link to “Free Republic, The Premier Conservative Site on the Net”, and in fact I wonder how that can even happen, when links to huffingtonpost, and other lefty sites routinely get modded out on CC. Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?</p>

<p>A lot of Americans are unaware that Britain is the font of sensationalistic journalism, and having worked in a Media Center in London, I can tell you that The London Times, and timesonline, are not immune. </p>

<p>The timing of this post was interesting too, wouldn’t you agree? As the debate becomes more shrill, and people scream in town halls and wave around marginally-literate signs, reasonable people should note that a system which serves the entire United Kingdom with free health-care should not be judged on single (albeit horrible) cases. Health-care is managed by people, and people make mistakes. Yes, there is a system of accountability, and the sharp-eyed among you might note that in the UK as well there is a means of redress (they sue just as much as we do), and it was stated in the article that the couple accepted a financial settlement.</p>

<p>Judgments and opinions based on emotional anecdotes represent unclear and low-level thinking anyway. Look, I feel the same way about “pro-abortionists” waving signs with coat-hangers on them, cluttering the debate with “back-alley abortion” horror stories, and imposing a moratorium on frank and scientific information concerning fetal development and the abortion procedure. They want to convince you that “a fetus is not a baby”…yet, if a woman at any stage of a pregnancy is murdered, the perpetrator can get convicted of a double homicide. You can’t have it both ways --it either is or isn’t a person. For people making public policy based on self-interest and personal agenda, science is the enemy.</p>

<p>So anyway, if we want to form opinions based on single cases, I’d like to add a story that I would headline</p>

<p>SOCIALIZED MEDICINE SAVED MY BABY!</p>

<p>I was a couple months pregnant, and had to go to France on business. I started to go into premature labor, with regular contractions. I went to the neighborhood clinic, which was cost-free, despite that I wasn’t French. The doctor on duty fixed the problem quickly and efficiently (the French do like their suppositories, lol) and followed up.</p>

<p>Back in the U.S. H had started a new job with new insurance. I had no insurance with my job. His (our) insurance would not cover this pregnancy, as a “pre-existing condition”. No doctors in the D.C. area would see me. I was advised to use the Washington Free Clinic, which has a couple of midwives on staff. The midwives did home births. Several months in, the Social Worker at my H’s job told me that there was a funded program, that I could use a midwife practice that operated out of a hospital, for a hospital birth. On the big day, the midwife, who was really inexperienced, panicked when the heartbeat faded, turmoil ensued, and due to circumstances still unknown to me, screwed an electrode into the baby’s skull. That may have been standard procedure, but it resulted in complications and much worry due to lack of information. </p>

<p>Viva la France et ses medecins sans pareil!</p>

<p>(the baby is now 21 and doing beautifully :))</p>

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I wouldn’t agree. Pima made a decision to post here, rather than in the politics forum, because she was moved, touched and troubled by the story and wanted to keep politics out of it. She has no trouble starting threads on the politics forum, so there’s no reason to believe she was confused.</p>

<p>The thing is, you don’t know what any of our reproductive histories are to think that you could assume because of our affiliations, what we might think or feel about this particular thread. This being such a personal and intimate issue, you might be surprised.</p>

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<p>Zooser is correct…this was never a political issue to me. This was a horrific story of a woman who found out that her last embryo was implanted in another woman, who subsequently aborted it and she was told that the embryo was damaged.</p>

<p>I have no desire to make this political, if you want to pick it up on E& P go for it…notice there is a “new thread” button above the threads. Hit it and there I will tell you my opinion on socialized medicine in the UK.</p>

<p>This was my heart broke for both families thread. At first, my heart only felt for the woman who lost her last embryo, and now it has changed about how the woman who terminated the pregnancy also must have felt knowing that IVF is the last hope for many women. I have no issue politically about the health care, except I would love to attack the clinic for being so irresponsible to emotionally damage both families. Sorry, but where was the check- double check? Lives were forever altered and they will never forget this, we all should want this to never occur to another family regardless of health insurance.

BTW…You give me way too much credit! Are you insinuating that I asked the Today Show not to broadcast the show until health care became an issue here? The show happened yesterday, where exactly did I have control on timing, shouldn’t you blame NBC and not me?</p>