<p>I’d still like to know if NY HS kids can already legally get contraception without parental permission either through the schools, Planned Parenthood or some other means.</p>
<p>Anyone? Thanks</p>
<p>Okay, how much time do we as parents get to have with our children before we have to hand them over to the State? I understand soon, with univeral preschool potentially being mandated in many states in the not-too-distant future, we get to have, what, three years? Oh, thank you.</p>
<p>Z,</p>
<p>I understand where you are coming from but the reality is that in NY, your child can get the same services at the local planned parenthood with out your consent or notice.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion/fact-parental-consent.xml[/url]”>http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion/fact-parental-consent.xml</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/ec/ec-where.xml[/url]”>http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/ec/ec-where.xml</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-bc-choices-teens.xml[/url]”>http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-bc-choices-teens.xml</a></p>
<p>So if a young woman wanted to do this she still can (granted they are going to take your child’s medical history, but you would be suprised at the number of young people who really can’t adequately give their medical history). Who is to say that a young person would not lie about their history if it meant getting/not getting treatment (it has happened)?</p>
<p>The difference that I see is that the same treatment is available to all whereas, now young women with money (and there are a lot of teenagers from the burbs and aroung the city walking around with an obscene amount of money for teenagers), they can go out and pay for these services without their parents ever knowing. I really do not think that the program is not going to happen with out an adequate professional staff (counselors, health care providors) in place.</p>
<p>Dadguy: I apologize for not responding. I saw the post from Opie and my hair stood on end so I missed yours.</p>
<p>In NYC minors can get those services from licensed medical doctors without parental consent.</p>
<p>Sybbie, thank you for responding so nicely. I would be ok with teens receiving services from a licensed physician or nurse practitioner WITH mandated follow-up, even if the parent is not notified. Planned Parenthood utilizes (generally) such professionals. And, frankly, I think our public school system would work a lot better at educating kids if they weren’t trying to raise them, too.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, speaking as a somewhat-conservative but often rule-breaking catholic, with a D who is uber-conservative (her choice - she is resolutely opposed to any sex outside of marriage and to all manner of birth control - this last for both science and faith-bases reasons), I have to say that I agree strongly with Opie. </p>
<p>In the broader picture, if you think about it, our sons and daughters can with little effort or expense contract for or obtain any number of goods and services - some illegal, some not - just a few that come to mind - drugs, alcohol, firearms/weapons, tatoos, piercings, pornography, poisonous or otherwise dangerous pets, and so on. Considerably less ominously, they can also sign themselves up for general level classes when they should be in AP, or vice versa; they can can choose from EC activities that are deadends rather than experience-builders, and so on. At the end of the day their choices largely hinge on the information and support they have been given, and their influences, which hopefully begin at home; hopefully, too, home is a happy, welcoming and safe haven where open discussion is supported and encouraged, and where sensitive topics and even extremely diverse opinions are highly valued and never discouraged or silenced. </p>
<p>Plan B just strikes me as just one more choice among hundreds of choices, but at that, a better-than-nothing safety net for those that are in the situation that MomoFour’s post points out - those young women who do not have open dialog at home - maybe who are even in very hostile environments - and who may have no alternatives. </p>
<p>I have no problem with Planned Parenthood’s mission, however, I suspect that there are many young women who are in situations where they cannot even find their way to a Planned Parenthood location (or if they can get to it, finding the time to get away without anyone knowing may be a problem), and where a solution at school might be their only possible avenue of help.</p>
<p>First of all, I am a huge supporter of Plan B. IMO, it beats abortion, unwanted pregnancy, or any other host of problems. I do not see it as abortion.</p>
<p>…but I don’t like the idea of KIDS being able to access it without a parent’s knowledge. I had to get my parent’s permission to play sports, get a shot, had to notify them when my vision tests revealed problems, when I went on field trips, if I wanted to be dismissed early, if I came in a second after the homeroom bell… but not need it for medical care? I don’t see Plan B as any different (morally) from a shot, vaccine, or other medical treatment. I think that parents have a right to know if their kid is getting that. The risk of side effects is huge, and some women simply cannot take it. The relevant medical history for something like Plan B would be a family history of hypertension and blood clots; as a high dose of the Pill, Plan B puts users at risk of both conditions. Very, very important that it be administered safely. </p>
<p>I guess I resent the idea of the gov’t saying that it knows better than parents; I also resent the idea of schools being turned into avenues of everything save education. </p>
<p>I do not advocate for parental permission, which I think is a different kettle of fish; I do, however, advocate for notification, or, in the alternative, a discussion with the school guidance counselor about why the parents should not be notified. At the very least, the girl should be sent home with a slip to give to her parents, notifying them that she sought and took Plan B. But parents should not be left out of the equation, and it only undermines their (very important) role in their children’s development to unilaterally sideline them like this. </p>
<p>Just my opinion - one formed from the gut that says that parents shouldn’t be kept in the dark; that parents can’t talk to kids about safe sex or abstinence if they don’t know that their kid is having unprotected sex; and that high school is too young for sex anyway. </p>
<p>For the record, I would strongly support resources in the high school that would point students towards places to get contraception (including the Pill and Plan B), information, and testing; however, I really resent the idea of it being sponsored by the government and run by the schools, over the objections of parents.</p>
<p>Zoosermom:</p>
<p>I don’t see providing morning after pills to school nurses a sign of Nanny Bloomberg. I support Planned Parenthood, but I have no clue as to its location in my town; I expect that teen-age girls would be in the same situation, not to mention their parents.</p>
<p>As others have said, this provision does not prevent girls from discussing their situation with their parents; but it makes it possible for them to act more quickly and to go to an adult whom they can trust. I would hope the nurses are trained to take down medical history and other relevant information. </p>
<p>I am more concerned about the teen age girls at our schools with babies. Some of these girls are as young as 15.</p>
<p>I don’t know why anyone is having any problems with Nanny Bloomberg, since the government has been “insinuating” itself into private lives more and more invasively. Remember Terry Schiavo, for one of many, many examples?</p>
<p>I see the case for parental notification. However, I think there needs to be some consistency of argument. Either one is FOR government interference in personal lives (anti-abortion, as well as anti-parental notification) or against. </p>
<p>As with abortion and the death penalty, people seem to want it both ways. Either all life has sanctity, or not…or you want the government to leave private matters to individuals…or not.</p>
<p>Aries, I would agree with much of what you say as a general and reasonable stance. Otoh, my Mom is an Episcopalian priest and former probation officer and I know of waaaaay too many cases where requiring notification would have been an even worse disaster piled atop a disaster. </p>
<p>And having seen a gamut of school GC’s, I would not want some poor kid’s emotional life held hostage to the competence and sensitivity of a GC either. As for the judicial opt-out features, I’m extremely dubious: most kids don’t have enough confidence and moxie to deal with adult administrative & legal channels. If they did, a lot of dumb questions on this board would disappear. Raise the stakes to a high level and put the kid under emotional stress and that ability is compromised even further.</p>
<p>A misguided law isn’t going to promote the healthy parent-child communications that should be there if they’re not. </p>
<p>I consider the number of students I know whose parents would totally flip out if they knew the student had a Live Journal account.</p>
<p>Because Plan B is only effective up to 72 hours after intercourse, there is a time element to this discussion that is not there when considering other forms of contraception or abortions. That is, a girl who is faced with a situation where her primary contraception but need parental permssion to seek out Plan B, has less than 3 days to screw up the courage to confront one or both parents and then set up a doctor’s appointment for the prescription. So effectively, the parent needs to be told within 24 hours. That is asking a lot of most girls, I think.</p>
<p>The prospect of parental notification might also delay a girl making a decision to seek out Plan B and cost her too much time. I can see where a girl might decide not to get Plan B and just hope she doesn’t get pregnant or settle for an abortion if she does. </p>
<p>I do not approve of minors having sex, but I approve even less of unwanted pregnancies. If I had to choose between that or keeping parents in the dark, the latter seems like the lesser of two evils.</p>
<p>Plan B almost became an OTC item here in the US as it is in Canada. If it was, this whole discussion would be moot becuase it would be out there readilly avialable. And it still may, if a less religious adminstration comes into office in '08 (even a Republican one).</p>
<p>I can see the objection to having the public schools be the place where Plan B is dispensed. Perhaps their role should be limited to referring to Planned Parenthood, if asked.</p>
<p>Even among kids who have very close relationships with their parents, I know of very few who are comfortable discussing intimate aspects of sex and their own sexuality with their parents. It simply is very normal for young teens to seek information and support from non-parents in these areas, expecially when they themselves are becoming sexually active. Also, Plan B users generally are not those teens, or adults, who were planning to have sex - they are those who got carried away, and so potentially may be very embarrassed and not ready to discuss the situation with their parents within the critical time period. The kids who plan for sex have condoms on hand – and at least at my daughter’s high school, those are given out freely with along with regular scheduled informational sessions about safe sex and preventing STD’s. </p>
<p>As a parent I am very glad that I have an open relationship with my daughter, but I would much rather be finding out after-the-fact that she had availed herself of Plan B (or not knowing at all) than be dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. The options simply do not get better over time.</p>
<p>Aries,</p>
<p>Your position on this is so well reasoned, rational and pragmatic, that I’m shocked that others here cannot grasp the simple decency of it: </p>
<p>-Parental Permission to play sports, of course;
-Medical treatment during pregnancy, no big deal, why complicate the procedure. </p>
<p>I can only assume that ideology is putting an undue strain on peoples practical wisdom and reasonablenessunless they think parental permission should never be required, in which case, they are at least consistent.</p>
<p>But back to Marite’s point, how does a young teen get themselves quickly and discreetly to a Planned Parenthood office anyway? I am assuming they would have some difficulty working it in - they would either have to skip school, or, find some way to be able to be there while they are supposed to be someplace else? </p>
<p>Maybe in large cities with reliable public transportation this is somewhat workable but what about in rural areas or cities where there is not a good bus or subway system? And, I am going to guess that many Planned Parenthood locations are going to be in somewhat challenging areas - they’re not going to be next door to the safe, clean, Class A office complexes, right? </p>
<p>It seems like putting a viable option within easy reach and where a young teenage girl can legitimately and safely be has to be a LOT better than an unplanned, unwanted or unsupportable pregnancy.</p>
<p>Yeah, but, FountainSiren I don’t think that “mom and dad, can I go out for varsity this year” is quite the same thing at all as “mom/dad, I need birth control/emergency contraceptives”. They are very different things, the latter of course being so very incendiary and solutions being so time sensitive. </p>
<p>Plus, there is the added issue but hopefully far rarer issue of what if the potential pregnancy was CAUSED by someone in the household?</p>
<p>I don’t think this is in any way ideal but I don’t see it as a dangerous options for those who have very few or no other options in the first place.</p>
<p>I’m very skeptical of the government assuming powers away from parental jurisdiction only to combat the <em>exception</em> to the rule, which incest certainly is, at least where pregnancy is concerned; the vast majority being of the normal hooking-up and boyfriend variety, wouldnt you say? </p>
<p>Otherwise, just classify children as adults and be done with it. </p>
<p>Either a parent is <em>civilly</em> meaningful in society or they are not.</p>
<p>The FDA report suggests that Plan B is very safe when taken rarely for emergency use. There is a significant increase in risk of ectopic pregnancy (a very serious complication) when taken regularly. It appears that “regularly” means anything more than 4 times a year. The FDA link is here: <a href=“http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/03/briefing/4015B1_12_FDA-Tab%205-1-Medical%20Officer%20Review.htm[/url]”>http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/03/briefing/4015B1_12_FDA-Tab%205-1-Medical%20Officer%20Review.htm</a></p>
<p>If NYC implements this policy, I hope steps are taken to make sure girls understand this is an emergency option and not something they can do on a regular basis.</p>
<p>DadGuy: Perhaps Plan B is not OTC because of the Republican administration but I think the elevated risk of ectopic pregnancy may play a role, too.</p>
<p>
I agree, but that’s not the prevailing view in America anymore. We are a village now.</p>
<p>A village implies the people in it: families, shopkeepers etc–or did you mean to say <em>we</em> are a government?</p>
<p>While I respect the individual perspective of the various posters on this subject as a matter of personal philosophy, I have to admit I’m somewhat baffled by the casual assertion that government’s failure to impose control over a person constitutes interference in people’s private lives. Demanding that the government enforce the parents authority over their children is itself government intrusion into personal life, not the other way around.
I have to admit, once I became the parent of teenagers I was kind of surprised at how they accepted the authority of Mom and Dad - even more readily than they accepted the authority of the police, schools, etc. Now that two of my kids are over 18, and legally adults, we can still tell them what to do - and they’ll do it. Not because the government makes them; not because that’s the law. Because we’re Mom and Dad. It seems to me that that authority comes from a different source than the legal authority of the state. Demanding that the government enforce that authority… well, doesn’t strike me as a blow against the nanny state, it strikes me as an appeal to strengthen the nanny state by extending it; demanding that “Big Momma” enforce “little Momma’s” right to be consulted by The Girl.</p>