Dispensing Plan B may be about “exceptions” but insisting that the government do it and refusing to notify parents that it’s been done applies to everyone. It’s a bad plan to encourage government to assume the parental role and authority. In the long run, it makes more parents - and not just the bad ones - decide that they can’t or don’t have to parent their kids.</p>
<p>Further, since this discussion has focused largely on pragmatics rather than philosophy, what makes everyone so certain that these kids will take Plan B correctly? It must be taken within 72 hours of intercourse. We all know how kids are. Do you really believe these kids will dutifully troop into the nurse’s office for their Plan B pill the next morning? Some might but some will procrastinate and deny, and wait several days to decide maybe it’s a good idea. How effective and potentially dangerous will that be?</p>
<p>The horse has left the barn already. Nobody is forcing the girls to get Plan B. And, as I said, the government has already assumed far more parental authority over kids than used to be the case. Try to graduate from a public school in my state without passing the high stakes test, thanks to NLCB, the brainchild of a supposedly conservative Administration! I just do not see why this is a different issue from many others, including sex ed, the teaching of evolution or creationism, passing a swimming test, etc…</p>
<p>As for the girls waiting past 72 hours to go to the nurses, I have to assume that the nurses are not <em>required</em> by law to give Plan B to anyone who asks. They are not dispensing machines. I would assume that they would take information down, and depending on what they hear, they would agree or not to dispense Plan B. If the girls lie to the school nurse, will they not lie to their parents and to their doctors as well?
So they go to the nurse several days after they had sex. The nurse is under no obligation to, and indeed absoluely should not dispense Plan B if the window of time has closed.</p>
<p>Edit: I just found an interesting set of data on teen-age pregnancies, abortions and births.</p>
<p>While I still believe that access to emergency birth control is important, this thread has raised some questions in my mind:
-Under this school plan does a nurse dispense medication? In states that I know about nurses are not covered to dispense medication unless overseen by a physician. How is that handled?
-In our school system, administration seems to be overly concerned about lawsuits. How would this be handled in their liability coverage?
-One plus of physically being available in a school other than convenience is that stopping in to see the school nurse could be about any issue, whereas if one walks into Planned Parenthood the student may feel that “everyone” knows why they are there.</p>
<p>my daughter school health clinic has a nurse practioner-who can dispense medication
I would imagine that teh clinic would need health records and permission forms signed by parents at the beginning of year to see minor students.</p>
<p>Our clinic does physicals for sports as well as other things-and has a psychologist on staff as well as nurses- I don’t think they are actually employed through the school district- but rather through a local childrens hospital.</p>
<p>“I would imagine that teh clinic would need health records and permission forms signed by parents at the beginning of year to see minor students.”
If this is the case, couldn’t parents who have a problem with Plan B just not sign for treatment at the school health clinic? They could just give persmission on a case by case basis. Or sign for permission to treat with the exception of Plan B?</p>
<p>I can’t find the detailed duties for my state (NC). But from what I understood from talking to administration/nurses/counselors in past, they are only able to dispense medication that the student already has a prescription for (asthma meds, ADD meds, antibiotics most common). They may give out OTC medications with parental permission. But this state has a very poor school health program with no nurse on site everyday. Believe I saw an article that stated each nurse has approx. 1000 students for whom she/he is responsible for — therefore most of their time is probably taken up with record keeping duties and little spent on health education of students.</p>
So because the horse has left the barn for some kids in the past, we have to leave the door open for every kid from now on?</p>
<p>
Of course they are. Schools can barely take attendance these days. Nurses will have little ability to withhold pills from a girl who says she needs it, especially given the 3-day window within which it can be taken.</p>
<p>The nurse at school can’t even give my kid a Tylenol without calling me. And any medication to be dispensed, aside from having clear parental or medical signature, has to be in its original container (I have the tendency to carry around analgesics in a baggy to save space in my pocketbook, and the nurse couldn’t give them, even if they clearly WERE Tylenol!).</p>
<p>The liability laws for dispensing medication without authorization seem to preclude the whole idea of anything more than notification. I don’t think that school personnel, including nurses, can dispense <em>anything</em> (aside from boring homework) without a parent’s permission.</p>
<p>Our school clinic and her previous school nurse couldnt even give Tylenol with out parental permission.
If they dispensed other meds, like albuterol, they had to have the students parents permission AND actually have the student bring the meds in to be held in the clinic.</p>
<p>The main point of this should be that it is another option, not the only one, not the “best” (if there is one)one, but simply another option to help reduce an unwanted pregnacy. While some may not like the idea and offer comparsions with other established programs or they don’t like the lack of parent notification, isn’t this just simply another way to go? Why do we have to like it for it to be meaningful? </p>
<p>Why would I want to restrict somebody who might find this the “best” way to deal with their very personal situation? Do I have to agree with them? Why? Should I try and stop them because they are doing it differently than I would? Again Why? </p>
<p>As far as children communicating their sexual activities with their parents… When did you tell mom? Alot of us set impossible standards that we ourselves would have trouble following. We create these “ideals” that our children are supposed to live up to that for many aren’t really possible or questionable to begin with… then they fail us and our “ideals”… they failed us, how are they now supposed to talk to us about their failure? </p>
<p>As I said before I “hope” that my daugther would talk to me or her mother about any problems of any kind, but I also KNOW I didn’t talk to my mom about everything I did. I’m willing to bet 99% of us never completely told our parents what we did, especially sexually. Why should we make that demand of our kids? How honest do you expect them to be? </p>
<p>If my daugther had a problem, I’d want her to tell me about it on her terms, knowing I’d listen, might get angry, but eventually come to a solution for the problem with her.</p>
<p>Are nurses such pushover? If the nurse insists on a girl talking to her parents first, is there anything the girl can do short of bludgeoning the nurse and helping herself to the pills? </p>
<p>Did you read the stats on teen pregnancies and abortions I linked to? The data is somewhat dated (2000), and though it would appear from recent articles that teenage pregnancies are on the decline, I expect they still number in the thousands, as do teenage abortions. Apparently, there are as many live births as there are abortions.</p>
<p>Do we think that the current situation–teenage pregnancies and teenage abortions–is okay? Those teens had sex and now they must live with the consequences, as will their children? Is abortion as a means of birth control safer than Plan B? </p>
<p>These are the questions I am asking myself, not the rights and wrongs of teenage sex or parental notification. Ideally, no girl should have unprotected sex. Ideally, all kids should have great relations with their parents. Ideally, there should be no reason for anyone to resort to abortion. But the stats tell a different story.</p>
<p>Abortion of course isn’t birth control but a means of ending a pregnancy
PLan B, will not * end* a pregnancy if one is established ( i.e. fertilized egg implanted)</p>
<p>As someone who has gone through amazingly fertile periods ( I became pregnant twice while using birth control correctly- the reason why I was so good about using birth control was because I did not want to have a pregnancy at that time- but I was an adult, in a committed relationship & I also wanted to have sex )</p>
<p>Plan B would not have helped me in those cases however, because I was using birth control correctly- in one case an IUD & it was still in place- in the other I was using foam and a condom
So Ididn’t know I was at risk for pregnancy, until I was actually pregnant.
I also found out as soon as possible at that time, I believe now they can find out much earlier.
I did have two abortions, the 2nd the NP at Planned Parenthood actually tried to talk me out of.
BUt they both were before two months gestation and I didn’t have any problems getting pregnant when I wanted to.
I had been on the pill, but at that time the pills were quite strong and I had a lot of side effects- so the switch to an IUD.</p>
<p>NOw at least teh H- has had the * surgery*, I told him he either did that- or he had the next kid!</p>
I think Calmom pretty much said it all. We may want to address this issue as an idealized, ideological question of how a perfect government interacts with perfect families, but it really comes down to the nitty gritty reality of kids’ minds in adult bodies, potentially becoming parents long before they are ready to handle that responsibility. Proponents of parental control/notification gloss over the number of bad - and really, really bad - parents out there in order to reach a conclusion that makes them more comfortable with their own lives. Opponents of parental control/notification ignore the really bad decision-making powers of many teenagers. I don’t believe that there is a single answer that isn’t the wrong answer in some cases. The pragmatic approach is: which alternative does the most good with the smallest number of really bad consequences? </p>
<p>Is the perceived “support of parental rights” which arises from forcing a girl to either tell her parents that she has been sexually active or forego a form of birth control worth the price of more 17 year olds dying from late term do-it-yourself abortions? That’s the kind of question you have to ask if you want to take a position on this question.</p>
<p>To Zoozermom – if your true concern is, as you say, possible health risks and contraindications with Plan B, here is what you can do for your own doctor:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>have a private discussion with your daughter’s doctor about what services can and will be provided to teens related to gynocological issues, birth control, & testing & treatment for STDs. </p></li>
<li><p>assuming that the doctor will provide these services in confidence to your teen, let your daughter know about it. Preferably this conversation can take place well before your daughter is dating anyone seriously or even thinking about sex, as part of a “now that you are growing up” sort of of mother-daughter conversation. (Even without sex, there are sometimes issues that young teens find embarrassing to discuss with their parents)</p></li>
</ul>
<p>*make sure that your daughter has her own insurance card to carry and that the insurance records at the doctor’s office are up to date, so that your daughter really can make an appointment on her own. </p>
<p>This is what I did, and I know that my daughter has availed herself of these services. Usually, my daughter confides everything in me, but it takes about 3 weeks after-the-fact before she feels comfortable talking to me about it. I wouldn’t want her waiting those 3 weeks to work up the courage to talk to mom to get tested for a suspected STD or talk about birth control, and I trust our family doctor to help her make appropriate decisions. (After all, the doctor probably knows a lot more than I do about the medical issues involved) I have the same doctor, but I treat the doctor-patient relationship as something that is off limits for me – after all, I wouldn’t want the doctor telling my daughter about all my health problems. </p>
<p>I think this is important because there are female health issues that come up when a young woman becomes sexually active that are unrelated to pregnancy or fear of pregnancy – and issues unrelated to sex that a teenager may still find embarrassing to discuss with a parent. So along with the “changing bodies” talk that I had with my daughter even before she entered puberty, I wanted her to know that as she matured, she would be able to discuss these issues with our doctor. </p>
<p>That being said, I know that other kids don’t necessarily have the same services available to them – and I personally would think that the school is one of the safer & more efficient ways that basic services can be provided.</p>
Perhaps the ability to dispense Plan B at colleges like Syracuse is different than it would be in NYC schools, but many college students are under 21 and it doesn’t seem to make a difference at Syracuse.</p>
<p>Cal Mom, you are a very wise woman. My daughter does have a medical card that she carries and we’ve had those talks several times and talk about sex pretty openly. You have made me realize that it’s time to move on past our pediatrician/adolescent medicine practitioner, though.</p>
I have a philosophy that guides my life and, contrary to your statement, it is not based on what makes me feel good about myself. Like you, I care about kids but we simply have different views on how to help them have better lives.</p>
Alot of us set impossible standards that we ourselves would have trouble following. We create these “ideals” that our children are supposed to live up to that for many aren’t really possible or questionable to begin with… then they fail us and our “ideals”… they failed us, how are they now supposed to talk to us about their failure? </p>
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