<p>I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend taking a little CAD if it can possibly fit in his schedule.</p>
<p>Schools have different ideas of rigor in hs. Take the most rigorous path possible. Our school only had ap physics b, and s is one of three in ap calc bc, there is nothing offered after that. Bhowever he is taking mat lab this year taught by an engineer from the local naval airbase. They try and get kids into stem programs in hopes they will come there to work someday. He gc will have to check off the rigor of your Childs schedule, I don’t know if it hurts or not if your school doesn’t have classes. Most colleges I know want bio, chem, physics and calc.</p>
<p>Re: Post #19</p>
<p>Oops.
S2 took honors Geometry last year as a Freshman and is taking honors Algebra II this year as a sophomore.</p>
<p>There are some majors that are considerably easier in college if you have taken related or relevant courses in HS; DD1 wanted to be an architect from 9th grade on and took CAD, Architectural Drafting, Interior Design, House Construction (the whole class built a 1500 sq ft house from scratch in a year), four year-long studio art courses, computer graphics, and art history. Several of the above were Project Lead The Way courses.</p>
<p>Made for some very interesting HS schedules, and an awful amount of money spent on art supplies and tools, but she had no trouble getting a portfolio ready, getting accepted to one of her reaches, getting a merit scholarship, and having a blast her first semester. </p>
<p>Did it all work out as planned? Don’t know for sure - she did not take Physics in HS and she’ll take a Physics for Poets or some such next year; She’s not a math genius by any stretch (math-o-phobe in fact); also, with such an extreme prep curriculum, you either get into Architecture or the Arts or you’re toast…</p>
<p>For engineering, I’m not so sure. </p>
<p>First of all, there’s different types of engineering. I don’t think a 17 year old knows they want to be a materials engineer or aerospace engineer or what not. </p>
<p>Second, succeeding in engineering school is more of a function of how well you survive the first two years with the epic math/chem/phys classes than anything else. So, a heavy AP/IB math based program would be useful. The ‘what does an engineer do’ type stuff can be learned outside school. </p>
<p>And third, contrary to popular belief, programming is not engineering :-)</p>
<p>^I agree, but I don’t know any engineers who aren’t better off being comfortable around computers. And programming (the sort you learn in a high school course) is probably more useful in the long run than the comp sci theory courses that are often offered by universities. That said, I think the best best is a standard math and science heavy college curriculum with whatever electives make sense at your school (at our school AP Comp Sci and an honors engineering physics courses taught by a fantastic teacher are popular for future engineering types.) Getting a taste of engineering can usually be best accomplished through ECs (Science Olympiad, Robotics) and summer programs.</p>
<p>Programming isn’t engineering, but it is a useful tool for most engineering fields, and some sort of programming class is required for most if not all engineering majors. Making the time consuming, typical beginner mistakes in high school rather than college can save a lot of time. Unfortunately, a lot of high schools don’t offer any sort of CS class.</p>
<p>What about learning Matlab-- or is that best left to university? I understand that it is very helpful to engineering, but perhaps it requires calculus?</p>
<p>Is your son interested in studying engineering at a Top 5 engineering school or studying engineering? I ask because many CCers are interested in being prepared to compete at the top and have the resources in their communities to do it. Here in what my daughter’s college classmates refer to as “HokeyPokeyVille” our HS sends multiple grads to engineeting programs every year. I can’t recall anyone being accepted to MIT, CalTech or Olin, but we usually do send students on to Cornelll, RPI, WPI, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve, Union, Clarkson, etc. </p>
<p>The most rigorous curriculum sequences our rural/suburban HS offers to prospective engineers is: Math – Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus AB; Science – Earth Science, Living Environment, Chemistry, Physics (all lab sciences). They also take 4 years of English and Social Studies and at least 3 years of foreign language. Prospective engineers often take CAD as an elective. </p>
<p>The curriculum offered at our HS is weak compared to what you often read about on CC. Yet most of our kids who pursue engineering at the schools noted do eventually become engineers.</p>
<p>I asked my son about MATLAB, since I never heard of it :), and he said it was part of his second semester freshman year engineering class. He said it was no big deal that he hadn’t had it before.</p>
<p>Matlab is more of a tool to solve math-based problems - most software (contrary to popular belief) does not revolve around math… Same way SAS or SPSS are tools to analyze data, not a general purpose platform. </p>
<p>As an engineer turned computer programmer, I’m not sure I agree with the idea that, say, a Civil Engineer will wake up one morning and start writing code to solve surveying problems or prestressed concrete problems if it is not part of the curriculum (which is how I got my start 30+ years ago). Or a Mechanical Engineer will write her own code to design gears… Computer Science or programming classes in HS are useful, but only to build basic skills (how to do this, how the physical world maps to the computer world, and so on). </p>
<p>I see most engineering or industrial tech courses in HS not as preparation for engineering college but more as an insight of what engineers do all day; An AutoCAD course won’t turn one into a CAD designer or Mechanical Engineer, but it removes a bit of mystery from what is it that engineers do for a living. So, by the time the student is applying, they have a general idea of what engineering is, or what an engineer does. </p>
<p>The math/science part, sure. That is needed to survive the first couple years, but one could ace all these courses and still have no insight as to what engineering is all about - again, contrary to popular belief, science by itself is not engineering :-). </p>
<p>So, maybe one needs both, a few Project Lead The Way or Industrial Tech courses to get their hands on some real hardware and see if they ‘click’, and the science/math courses. </p>
<p>Depending on EC’s, the first part may be optional to an extent. I spent all my youth designing and building model airplanes, and by the time I hit structural engineering in college, there was not a lot I would learn that I did not already learn the hard way :-)…</p>
<p>I think turbo nailed it. Engineering requires creativity and problem solving skills. I think the following ECs help to develop these skills:</p>
<p>[Home</a> Page | Science Olympiad](<a href=“http://soinc.org/]Home”>http://soinc.org/)
[USFIRST.org[/url</a>]
[url=<a href=“http://www.aapt.org/physicsteam/2011/]2011”>2011 U.S. Physics Team - Home]2011</a> U.S. Physics Team - Home](<a href=“http://www.usfirst.org/]USFIRST.org[/url”>http://www.usfirst.org/)
[Chemistry</a> Olympiad Competition for High School Students](<a href=“American Chemical Society”>American Chemical Society)
[MAA</a> American Mathematics Competitions - AMC](<a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>http://amc.maa.org/)
[USA</a> Computing Olympiad](<a href=“http://www.usaco.org/]USA”>http://www.usaco.org/)</p>
<p>Students should also look at competitions organized in local cities. For examples:</p>
<p>[Berkeley</a> Math Circle](<a href=“http://mathcircle.berkeley.edu/]Berkeley”>http://mathcircle.berkeley.edu/)
[San</a> Diego Math Circle - San Diego Math Circle](<a href=“http://www.sdmathcircle.org/]San”>http://www.sdmathcircle.org/)</p>
<p>S2 says the kids having the most trouble in his first semester engineering physics course had algebra based versus calc based HS physics. He also had to place into the first series of Chem for engineers - otherwise he would have to take basic Chem 1 as a pre req.</p>
<p>sylvan 8748-Civil is a very broad field and most UG programs will require a course on water/sewage treatment at the very least. Site and environmental engineering require a solid understanding of biology and chemistry.</p>
<p>bucasmom, I have a BS in Civil Engineering, which included a course in Water Treatment. As an undergrad I also had to take 2 semesters of General Chemistry (as did most of the engineers), but I never had to take any biology courses in college. Of course, I didn’t concentrate on Environmental (although H has ABT Master’s), but that is only one branch of Civil. H wasn’t required to take Bio either. Just sounds funny to hear it suggested as a background for a degree both H and I possess :).</p>
<p>Anyway, aren’t ALL HS students required to take the standard year of Biology with Lab?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seems like calculus-based high school physics (AP Physics C) is still uncommon to be offered in most high schools. (And it was probably even more rare when I went to high school, since fewer high school students reached calculus back then.)</p>
<p>Sylvan -et tu? Another engineering couple? H & I are also civils. I think it drives son crazy when Dad and Mom are driving, and both of our heads snap around to to notice and comment on an especially nice drainage ditch. We had a lovely conversation the other day about flexible erosion control blankets. Induced eye rolling in S, who will be a history major. So much for the acorn theory.
At UVM in the '70s the core required an additional 2 science lab courses beyond the full year in chemistry and physics. Biology supported the treatment courses. Yes, we took it in HS, too. It was nice to have as background for an environmental MS.</p>
<p>There is one main thing that you hear college engineering students regret about their high school preparation, and that would be math. Look for the most rigorous math sequence, and also the most effective and rigorous TEACHER available because that makes a big difference. If you have any concerns on that issue, please consider dual enrollment with a local college (community or 4-year) if your state and school district allow it.</p>
<p>Lab sciences, communication skills, computer skills, and problem solving skills are all important. Most of that can be directed by the student’s interest, as it evolves.</p>
<p>w-g, you have consistent good advice in all these posts before me. Take all the challenging courses (across disciplines with an emphasis on math/science) you can. Freshman year of h.s. is where he/she should begin to become familiar with the process and take ownership of his/her life. Unfortunately, many think they have so much time until it is too late and they don’t have the required courses for a particular school. I see this all too frequently.</p>
<p>I would suggest he choose a few schools and have him navigate their website and see what those schools require for admissions criteria. He will then see the value of your advice sooner than later. </p>
<p>Another benefit, if he chooses to do engineering, he might be in a position to use AP credit earned in h.s. creating other opportunities in college. Good luck.</p>
<p>My D is an engineering freshman at WPI. She attended a very small public HS. In HS, she took the most advanced courses available to her. She took math through AP Calc AB, AP Chem (independent- since it was not offered), AP Physics (also semi- independent), AP English Lit, AP World History, AP English Language, 5 years of Spanish, plus all honors classes (biology, US History, band, chorus, etc). The only science that she did not take as AP was Biology, since she really disliked Honors Bio and has no desire to do anything biology related.</p>
<p>She did not have the high school resources to take any classes above the standard classes offered. She did very well her first semester at college, and believes that having a strong foundation in Math and Science, as well as the few 'independent" classes helped her tremendously with her classes.</p>
<p>A friend of mine is currently studying ChemE at a top 20 USNWR school. He maxed out his school curriculum for math at Complex Analysis, took both AP Physics C courses, a course on Microbiology, and went up to O-Chem. He also took a lot of CS classes for the fun of it; really liked programming data structures. But then again, his high school was really good at that kind of thing.</p>