<p>Obviously some have issues reading for detail. The past does not always translate into the future. What was maybe true 20-30 years ago has zero impact on grads today. </p>
<p>Hops–you would be making a very bad investment in your future. You would make back that gap many times over on average. Also you are wrong on the costs. EIU is around $20,000 so just a $5k gap. U Illinois would open many more doors.</p>
<p>EIU $19,500
Illinois BASE $28,200</p>
<p>Still a signficant difference. And you would only make that back IF you’re able to get a job that pays so well. There are no guarentees of that.</p>
<p>EIU’s cost is not as you stated as UI includes more in their budget. And EIU gives the comparable total as $23,000 with rented texts which cost much less. UI assumes purchased texts and more generous food plan, spending money etc. .</p>
<p>[Eastern</a> Illinois University :: Financial Aid - Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://www.eiu.edu/finaid/cost.php]Eastern”>Eastern Illinois University :: Office of Financial Aid - Cost of Attendance)</p>
<p>There are no guarantees in life. You play the odds you know.</p>
<p>In engineering or CS, going to a top school (for the major) is advantageous for one’s internship or first job because out of area employers will be attracted to recruit there (local employers tend to be willing to recruit at nearby schools out of convenience). For subsequent jobs, work history, rather than school pedigree, is more important. CS is also somewhat more open to those with self-education in CS even if they have no degree or an unrelated degree. So the non-flagship state university graduates (including those who started at community college) could easily find their way into a top firm alongside graduates of state flagship or top private universities.</p>
<p>From what I have read, good lawyer jobs, management consulting, and investment banking tend to be much more school pedigree conscious than most other jobs, even many years and jobs after graduation.</p>
<p>barrons posts often on the UW-Madison site- has ties there. Often views contrary to mine. Not a ■■■■■ but not always knowledgeable about the world outside his own.</p>
<p>Most schools will be third- or even fourth- tier schools, barrons. They serve a very useful function in their regions. Many, or most, teachers go to their state schools that have the mission of educating teachers as a primary role and can do a better job than the state flagship U. Most are not elite- there is a large world outside of the one you appear to exist in, barrons. Business is not the ultimate in most eyes like it is for you. </p>
<p>Interesting how a few hundred students can change things at a college. They had enough room for all students who wanted the dorms unlike schools that have waiting lists and forced triples. Too bad housing can’t be exported to where it is needed… Hopefully they will still be able to provide students with the same quality academics as before. Most of this country is run by students who either didn’t finish college or went to one of the lesser colleges disdained by some. The teachers who did a good job preparing my gifted son for a first tier school most often went to one of the once state teacher’s colleges, now UW schools- some maybe even 4th tier (gasp).</p>
<p>Going to an elite school and those opportunities is irrelevant to this topic. It doesn’t matter at all to most what business majors do- less than 10% of UW-Madison undergrads willl get degrees from their business school. I read the UW Business School report link posted on the UW site and note than those with some Letters and Sciences degrees can earn much more straight out of college than most business majors. Businesses are often run (at many levels- don’t forget more than CEO’s are required to get the work done) by those without business degrees, especially as an undergrad degree.</p>
<p>Not trying to hijack this thread folks, just trying to counteract one poster’s bias. There is room for many different successful lifestyles. A degree from Podunk U matters in Podunk, USA.</p>
<p>Actually this country is run by a President who graduated from Ivy schools, a Supreme Court where elite credentials are required and a Congress with an over-representation of highly and well educated people.
Private businesses are still the largest employers in the US so most will work for one.
For the best of those with excellent pay and benefits you should look to the better companies and most of those are pretty selective in their recruitment. You quickly limit your odds of getting a job that will enable you to live a nice lifestyle if you don’t go to the best school you can. Even the best public sector jobs look first to best schools. It is not a cut and dried issue but you want all the odds you can get in your favor as the job market going forward is NOTHING like it was 20-30 years ago. If you think that is not true you are deluded. </p>
<p>And I am not advocating for a business major or any particular major. What is true is that an engineering major from Stanford will get a better job on average than one from Purdue or UW and that those from PU and UW will have more and better choices than those from Northern Illinois. That’s reality. If you even get a teaching job today good luck. UW was in the Top 7 for schools sending people to the very competitve Teach for America this year. How many did EIU send?</p>
<p>Considering the Teach for Americas original premise was to pull non-education students into the teaching world and was founded by Ivy-league graduates that, in the beginning, focused primarily on other highly-selective college students, that is a bit biased. However, since EIU has an excellent teaching college, I bet it would be safe to say that more EIU grads are actually TEACHING in America.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>With all due respect for our current and past presidents, there is no way on earth I would want that job!</p>
<p>It may not be a good thing that so many UW grads are doing Teach for America, since one of the main forces driving its popularity is the inability of elite college grads to get a job.</p>
<p>Teach for America is filled with wealthy kids being supported by their parents while they ‘serve’. The exact opposite of the type of student that EIU graduates.</p>
<p>To be fair, I read a story last year about the Wabash graduates who were doing TFA, and both were scholarship students that did not have family money. However, both planed to leave the program and go to Law School, so neither will stay in the teaching profession long term. </p>
<p>It is strange how we demean the state schools that train our children’s educators. It is odd, though, how, at leat in the Midwest, the “teaching colleges” seem to be strong in education and little else.</p>
<p>If you want to be a teacher the state teacher’s colleges are typically fine. Just don’t pretend they are great for everyone looking for a great education and future. And don’t ask about the average test scores of these future teachers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My alma mater has been turning people away for a couple of years. I think this year they were in the process of getting hotel rooms set up.</p>
<p>My employer employs about 40 people. Two of them went to University of Missouri, one went to Baylor, and one went to Saint Louis University. Everybody else went to “no name” universities or no college. All gainfully employed and the business has grown and grown.</p>
<p>Not a matter of disdain–just a matter of facts. And anecdotes about people who graduated 25 years ago are not facts.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In what industry are you basing your claims on?</p>
<p>“A great education and future”- a business degree from ANY school is not my idea of either of those. A good businessman may be a lousy teacher. We need people with different strengths/skills to fill different jobs. barrons- you are not stating “facts” in a neutral manner, you are making very biased statements. Not everyone shares your biases- you show a lack of knowledge or intelligence when making those statements. “High test scores” - those do not measure who has the ability to be the best teachers.</p>
<p>In Wisconsin many of the state U’s evolved from teacher’s colleges, hence the emphasis. Also, the state offers some majors at only some schools to consolidate small ones- in fact, there are a few not offered at the flagship. No school can, or should try to be, all things for all people. I suspect Illinois also has several schools fulfilling similar functions. I’m not curious enough about the posted school to delve into its problems- hopefully they can identify the cause for the trend and find solutions.</p>
<p>It is nice to have schools spread out across a state to accomodate all residents- especially those who need to stay in a given area. It also improves the regions by exposing the people to colleges in their towns. It is not enough to have big flagship U hundreds of miles from where the state residents/voters live- having even a mediocre college in town improves the intellectual tone and opinions of higher education. </p>
<p>Most of the population is average, most college students are average college students. One could carry the argument further and state that if you can’t go to a top 10 (or 5, or 1) school you shouldn’t bother. UW is considered a mediocre school by the very elite, btw…</p>
<p>Wis75:</p>
<p>I can tell you that, if not for the likes of EIU, WIU, SIU, UNI, UW-Platteville, etc…companies like John Deere, State Farm, and Cat would not have enough candidates to fill available positions in IT, accounting, HR, operations management, etc, etc. These schools are absolutely critical for them. They hired grads from these schools 20 years ago and they are still doing it today.</p>
<p>AHHH, where did I even say business majors? Do you even read before posting? That includes ALL majors. All I said about business is that most people end up working for one. Lots of engineers, scientists, and even history majors work for businesses. The point was people from better schools tend to have better careers, on average. Why–probably because they attract better students on average. That is exactly what a recent major study found. And if you are a male, from a poor family, or minority you better go to the more elite school. And I think that the gap will grow as the job market shrinks for most college grads.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.irs.princeton.edu/pubs/pdfs/563.pdf[/url]”>http://www.irs.princeton.edu/pubs/pdfs/563.pdf</a></p>
<p>Also – I think with today’s electronic databases, it is easier for a hardworking student to get a superb education at an out of the way place. Access to material has been expanded. When I went to school (don’t ask when) the library at my R1 school was, IMHO, exponentially better than many small schools. It is still better, but the difference has appreciably decreased.</p>
<p>Here’s another article that says pretty much what I did.</p>
<p>[Innovations</a> - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“Innovations: Americans: Over- or Under-Educated?”>Innovations: Americans: Over- or Under-Educated?)</p>