And for those of you who are concerned with allergies to service dogs it is important to remember that allergies to dog dandruff are generally mild and only include a runny nose or teary eyes. They also require direct contact with the dogs dandruff which is not a problem unless you choose to pet the working dog (which you shouldn’t). The dog is there to help their handler with a disability of greater magnitude than minor allergies. Though switching seats may be necessary and seem like a hassle, realize that service dog team faces discrimination and inconvenience on a daily basis simply because the disabled person wanted to live a fuller, safer, and more independent life.
^^So if we are sitting next to someone with a vicious, untrained pit bull mix they are using as an ESA, we should just suck it up because we might be unkind to the handler and worsen that person’s anxiety? If you’re that anxious about flying, travel another way. If you need a vicious dog to assist you and will crumple because someone is concerned about their safety and asks to move, find another way to get there. Your mental issues should not endanger others. If your dog is any question whatsoever, don’t take it, or put a muzzle on it at the very least.
ESAs should be well-trained and even tempered. The hypothetical dog you’re describing is not a proper ESA and I, like many other ESA and service dog handlers, readily acknowledge that the lack of proper certification for ESAs and service dogs makes it all too easy for people to masquerade their untrained pets as assistance dogs and so give a poor impression of real assistance dogs. There is no law against asking a person if their dog is an ESA prescribed by a doctor and there is also no law against asking to switch seats on an aircraft. All I suggested was that people do so respectfully as unnecessary disruption or rudeness will not in any way improve the situation and may be quite harmful to a real ESA or service dog team. I have no comments on what happened in the specific case this forums references as I don’t think there’s enough information available to determine if the dog was poorly trained or if the other passenger inadvertently threatened it or the handler. And as a side note I think it’s important to say that pit bulls are not any more aggressive than other breeds. In fact, they were considered nanny dogs before the St. Bernard due to their mild temperament with children. Please remember that the dog is a reflection of its owner. You brought up a good point about fake assistance dogs that I did not address in my previous comment. Thank you for reminding me!
Allergies to animal dander absolutely do no require touching the animal and an allergic reaction can be very serious for an asthmatic.
I’m a big supporter of ESA’s and service dogs generally, but I will confess this case had me concerned on multiple fronts, not the least of which (of course) was the passenger who was seriously injured. It also sets ESAs in a very negative light which is bad too.
But @meandmydog - your points were well taken.
Sue22 brings up an excellent point regarding asthma. I did not mean to equate allergies to asthma at all as they are two very different conditions.
Meandmydog, the"hypothetical dog" you think I am describing is the one that this thread is about. No well trained (or even slightly trained) service dog would rip someone’s face apart if they were “inadvertently threatened”. The reality is, airplanes are crowded, loud, confusing, hot, and full of people who don’t know the perfect way to act around service dogs. If you have a dog that could possibly rip someone apart if things don’t go exactly as planned, you have no right to expose people to them.
And the old argument about how gentle pit bulls are…if you have a service animals whose looks will frighten people, your dog will not get a good reaction. If your dog could kill someone, people will be uncomfortable. There is a reason why people are frightened of the breeds that sporadically attack, maim and kill people.
" I have no comments on what happened in the specific case this forums references as I don’t think there’s enough information available to determine if the dog was poorly trained or if the other passenger inadvertently threatened it or the handler. And as a side note I think it’s important to say that pit bulls are not any more aggressive than other breeds."
Although I agree with some of your points, you lost me with these two sentences. Regardless of any threat, any animal on a plane should be trained enough to not react in that manner or they don’t belong on the plane, IMO.
And yes, pit bulls ARE more aggressive statistically speaking. What a dog breed might have been used for in the past and where that breed is today are two different things.
A large percentage of asthma attacks are triggered by allergies. Put an asthmatic who’s allergic to dogs a few seats away from a dog in a plane with recycled air and you may be asking for trouble.
I understand the need for service dogs and ESA’s but it’s not a simple issue. There are people who can’t fly with a dog near.
I volunteer at an animal shelter. Here are the breeds of some of the most troubled dogs I can think of from my several years there:
Shih Tzu, Boxer, Australian Shepherd, Rhodesian Ridgeback mix, Lab/Beagle mix, Pit mix, Golden Retriever, Dogue de Bordeaux mix, Coonhound/Poodle mix.
The ones who weren’t a problem? The two old pit mixes who had been abandoned in a house together and came in starving, one with an old injury that made one of her legs unusable. The pit mix who had heartworm and would snuggle in your lap while he was supposed to be on house rest. The pit who was missing a leg and whose adoption photo featured him gazing adoringly at his new doggy dad. The pit who was dumped back at the shelter after the person who adopted him unceremoniously left him behind just a few months after taking him in. The 103-lb pit whose only crime was thinking he was small enough to be a lap dog.
And, of course, the dogs we take from puppy mills once they’ve outlived their usefulness there (read: can’t pump out litters of pups anymore). Some of them have never walked on grass before. And yet they’re as gentle as can be.
I believe understand your concern and I was unaware the dog in this thread was a bit pull mix. I thought I had read it was a Labrador which is actually the breed my service dog is. She is a very gentle dog who has never hurt anyone, but I do not doubt that she could. Almost any large dog could do some serious damage, but that’s why we train them to react appropriately in situations that scare them. As I said, I have no intimate knowledge of the dog involved in this instance or temperament or training so I don’t think I have a right to add commentary to that specific aspect of this thread.
http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/12-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf
If you look at this 12 year dog bite fatality chart, it says almost 65% of deaths due to dog bites were from pit bulls. No labs on the chart, likely people will not fear your dog. Of course, this is one resource only.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, @meandmydog. Part of my problem with those who abuse the laws to protect people like you by stretching the rules so they can bring their pet everywhere is that it makes perceptions more challenging for those that really do need and benefit from well-trained service animals, unlike those who just buy a vest online.
Someone recently tried to counter my anecdote about the Shih Tzu by saying he isn’t dangerous because he couldn’t kill you. Yeah, he probably wouldn’t end up on that fatal bite chart. But if he takes your lip or ear off it’s still not gonna go well for you.
Any type of dog can be aggressive.
Sure, bojangles, any dog can be aggressive. My cavalier King Charles are very aggressive, they want to do their job, which is to comfort you. They will aggressively herd you onto the couch to snuggle you, and even hold you down with their little paws, because you must be comforted. And licked.
However, they couldn’t kill or maim you if their lives depended upon it. Their nature is not to hurt you, even when afraid. An aggressive snuggle is quite different that an aggressive attack. :o3
Sure, any dog can be aggressive but some breeds ARE more docile/have a calmer temperment than others.
Funny, that’s exactly how I would describe the pit bull who came to us from a shelter in the South. He had a lame leg and would drag himself along the floor to snuggle in your lap.
Or the other one who would only chew a toy when she was also sitting on you. Or the other one who never got a chance to learn manners because she spent half her young life in the shelter and more before that as a stray. She was my baby girl and I miss her since she was adopted.
It’s silly to imply that any breed could never be aggressive. I’ve seen aggressive Chihuahuas, aggressive Golden Retrievers, aggressive Miniature Pinschers. No breed is exempt. And no breed is doomed to aggression just because you’re scared of them.
@doschicos I completely agree. The lack of legal certification for assistance dogs is a huge problem. For example, Spain has really intense standards for certifying your service dog (and I have no idea about ESAs), but the result is almost no harassment of service dog teams and a much more comfortable public because everyone knows the dog is well-trained. I have very strong feelings about people abusing the ADA to benefit their pets, but at the end of the day I tend to come down on the side of the dog just because I fear someone harassing or provoking my dog in public. I’ve trained her to handle it well, but it can just be so disheartening especially when people don’t understand the legislature that protects us. I guess there’s no real answer, but hopefully all this debate will spark some real legislative changes to prevent fake assistance dogs.
@bodangles I think this is why small dogs can sometimes be even more aggressive than larger dogs. Since their aggression isn’t quite as dangerous, fewer small dogs are trained to not bite. I think it’s a great point that all dogs can be aggressive and, personally, I think it really comes down to how you raise or train them.
There is absolutely NO requirement that an ESA dog be a ‘proper ESA animal’ (whatever that is) or that it has to trained, or even that it has to be a dog. People are extremely allergic to cats, and those are ESA animals (my niece has one). They can be snakes and chickens and hedgehogs. I’m not sitting next to a snake on a plane when there is no requirement to keep it caged. Even if there is, I’m not sitting next to it.
I have no issue with true service dogs the one that have been trained like a Buckingham guard not to flinch or bite or take food, or sniff. I might have space issues with a mini-pony on a plane, but if the person with a disability has one and needs to fly and it’s allowed by law, I’d deal with it. Service dogs are great, ESA animals aren’t okay, and most are a scam. I say that having two nieces who have ESA letters. Both admit they did it to have their animals fly with them for free (and because they don’t want to drug their animals to be in the bottom of the plane). The one with the dog, and it is a NICE dog, still does it. I think she’s wrong. I think the law is wrong. The one with the cat has realized it is too stressful for the cat to fly and now leaves her at home.
But ESA means nothing other than that the PERSON has gotten a doctor to say the PERSON needs the animal, not that the animal has had training. The permit says nothing about the animal at all.
I was at the bank on Saturday and someone had his dog. It was on the counter, it was barking and growling at the security guard. I sent in a complaint and said I didn’t think dogs should be in the lobby. If the person wants to have his dog with him, use the ATM outside. A dog bit my daughter in a store one time and I don’t think they should be in stores unless they are service dogs.