ESA animal mauls another passenger on airline flight

Parent Cafe
41

There are two different laws. The ESA only applies to airlines and housing. It is the person who is certified as needing an emotional support animal, not the dog or cat or monkey as ‘safe.’ Florida has made it clear that ESA animals are NOT welcome in grocery stores, restaurants, sport arenas, stores.

This has to change and congress has to do it. My niece does it with her dog purely for her convenience and because it is cheaper. Her dog is a great traveler, but that isn’t the issue. My other niece did it for her cat and found the cat is not that great at traveling so now prefers to leave her at home and have a friend check in with her every few days. Neither niece needs a pet to travel.

Service animals are covered under other laws, including the ADA. They are welcome in all public places. The animal is trained.

42

Good friend has disabled D with guide dog - full blood lab so probably 70 lb. He flies with her at her feet, BUT my friend said she can’t make those arrangements without talking to real person at the airline. Then her D is given seat with extra space at foot and also a seat next to her for traveling companion (Mom or Dad). He stays at her feet the entire flight. They have traveled cross country and abroad. So there is a way to have large dog at your feet - a crate would take up far more room than just the dog. They go thru proper channels and have a documented trained animal.

I feel like if the pet gets special accommodations, it should be able to prove a level of training - not just “my dog makes me calmer.” Agree that those that abuse it make it worse for everyone. There are some professionally trained ESA dogs but fact anyone can buy a vest muddies the water. It ought to be required that to get allowances for pets you should have proof of training, especially if not contained.

With regards to allergies - that’s a tough one. If I had bad allergies, I think I would assume I’d be exposed and prepare accordingly. As someone mentioned, it’s possible for some to react to hair and dander on passenger even when pet is not actually around. Same with peanuts. What do people do that are that sensitive? You can have peanut free flight but can’t control what passengers do before they get there.

43

I was recently boarding a Southwest flight and sat next to a man with with an ESA dog that weighed about 35 lbs. II knew after we took off this was NOT a trained service dog because the pup sat up and rested his head on my knee. I wasn’t bothered and the owner was responsive to the dog. I just assumed that I was in a safe situation. I think the take-my-pet-everywhere-because-I-want-to is ridiculous. This story is just so sad.

44

It is with some irony that I recall someone on this board suggested a “sophisticated” way of bringing one’s pet on an airplane; an ESA letter. It was a few years ago. I can’t remember what brought that up. It should have been called cheating way not what know-how people do.

45

The ADA is pretty clear: you can’t inquire what the disability is, but you have a right to ask what specific task the animal is trained to perform. Oh, and only dogs and miniature horses are covered by the ADA. In the past, Costco here was quite successful at kicking dogs that were riding in shopping carts, whimpering, peeing, etc. out of the store because it was quite apparent the dogs were not even trained to do some very basic things (like listen to their owners commands). This is from 2013 - what sorts of animals are allowed and where in WA:

http://www.wla.org/assets/WALE/2015WALEConference/Service%20Animals%20and%20the%20Washington%20Law%20Against%20Discrimination.pdf

Not sure if this is still current or the ESAs have gotten more rights in the 4 years since it was published.

46

People should take an “Emotional Support Pill” and leave the animals in crates.

47

ESAs will be infiltrating your kids’ dorm rooms soon, too.

Same.

48

It’s already a thing at some colleges and universities.

https://esadoctors.com/allowing-pets-in-college-dorms/
https://collegian.com/2015/02/emotional-support-animals-can-live-in-dorms-help-students-reduce-stress/

among many others online…

49

This is horrible.

As a doctor, a couple of times a year someone asks me for an ESA letter. I have not yet agreed to do one–absolutely not trained for this and generally it does seem like people want them to save money more than anything else. I’ve tried to learn more about the requirements but they seem quite unclear. Dread the conversation every time.

50

I had to go to the ER this morning (nothing serious - just a scratch on my eye and my eye doc was in surgery all day - so off to the ER - which I was trying to avoid by not going last night. Anyhow, as I was in the ophthalmology room a hospital volunteer came in with her dog for me to pet…The dog even has his own business card with his picture on it and his paw print signature.

My airport also has dogs for people to pet after going through security.

We just stayed at a Kimpton hotel in Austin which is pet friendly and it’s a $400/ night hotel.

My mom travels all the time with her emotional support dog but still has to pay extra for her.

I believe it is only trained certified service guide dogs (like for the blind) which are allowed everywhere. There is a women in my town with a service guide mini pony. She can go anywhere and bring her pony.

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/capital-region/2017/05/upstate_ny_blind_woman_nurses_sick_guide_horse_back_to_health.html

51

Thank you for being one of the responsible people out there. It would be too easy to just say yes, but it sounds like often it’s not the right thing to do.

The victim needs to sue the crap out of the dog owner. When it comes down to it, he is the responsible person. Sure, sue everyone down the line to try to change things, but bringing a non-muzzled, potentially dangerous non-trained dog is selfish and irresponsible. Just because you can use the law to get away with it doesn’t mean you should.

And the airlines should absolutely keep charging for pets in the cabin. Can you imagine how many animals would be onboard if they didn’t? Every other row would have an animal on it, because people would ignore the limits on how many animals are allowed onboard, they would just bring them on and try to get away with it. Because once you’re in your seat, apparently you can call “base”, and good luck to the airline trying to get you off. :open_mouth:

52

@Booajo Thank you. Please keep up the fight.

53

"The animal “must be trained to behave properly in public settings as service animals do,” according to Delta’s website. “A kennel is not required for emotional support animals if they are fully trained and meet same requirements as a service animal.

So where was the documentation? Sounds like a good suit against Delta if that is the policy.

54

If my SIL had been on that flight with her tiny little uncrated dog, it would likely have been attacked by the larger one. Another reason why every pet in the plane and in the airport should be in a crate (except the verified trained ones).

55

Yes, it is already a thing in dorms. In some colleges it is being promoted.

My D had one in her single room and it never left her room. It’s a lizard. Yes, it seems weird but she needed very low maintenance, and she was familiar with them because her younger siblings had them as pets.

This is how it came about:

While D was in college, she had not one but two medical crises within a few months.

It was a very, very, very scary time, and she was away from home and dealing with it on her own.

When things settled down over a year later and D was in a single room, a representative of the disability office suggested she file a request for an ESA since she had expressed interest in one before.

Over the previous year, from the time they first allowed ESAs, they saw that students with ESAs were all doing noticeably better (EXCEPT for those with dogs. We were told the dogs were not as successful as ESAs in the college because they would whine when the kids went to class.)

So D submitted the paperwork and letters from a medical specialist and her therapist attesting to the fact that she was receiving appropriate, conventional treatment but was still experiencing residual anxiety. The request was granted.

Can I say if it helped? I don’t know. But she enjoys it and it was there at a time in her life when really nothing was enjoyable. So maybe it did its job.

56

You reminded me of a funny interaction W and I had a few weeks ago. We were walking to the parking garage of an outdoor mall and in the distance at the garage entrance I saw a huge dog. I thought to myself, “That dog is as big as a horse!”

When we got closer I realized, “That dog IS a horse!” Anyway it turned out to be a donkey that the owner was training as a therapy animal. She was going in and out and up/down the elevator to get it familiar with the process. We stopped and played with the donkey while our little 20 lb puppy sniffed it all over, which the trainer/owner said was all good training for it.

57

Found this in comments section of an article about ESA animals: ’
It’s a bit long but really points out the perils of people who game the system and will destroy a program needed by those with true disability. I especially liked the last paragraph.

"I am hearing impaired and also suffer from confusion and bi-polar disorder. I have a service dog for both disabilities, that later being the most severe. I have a patch on my dog’s vest for these disabilities as well, and the LEGAL papers and TRAINING as required by law.

I chose to have a patch that said emotional support, instead of a more intrusive label. This dog has saved my life on a number of occasions due to my bi-polar disorder.

Because people are abusing this system set up for people with real disabilities, I and many others with real service dogs have suffered in many ways, that these people passing off their fake service dogs don’t even consider.

I have a bichon frise a small dog who helps me with my daily life. When I decide to go out which is not very much, of course he comes with me. I have had so many mean things said to me about having my dog and how he is a fake, that I sometimes cry for hours and question myself as to weather I want to keep on living.

These people with fake service animals are literally putting my life in jeopardy and causing me to have less of a life because now I seem and am seen to be included as a part of their scam, when I am the one who is disabled and following the law.

I love my dog like anyone loves their animals, but I love mine more because of the fact that he is around to make sure I am alive, weather it is by him helping me by not getting hit by a car in the street because I did not hear it or weather it is by him stopping me from taking my own life.

Having a service dog comes with costs not perks of free airline travel for your pet and open access to wherever you feel like going with your pet.

Service dogs cost money to train and acquire based on the receipients needs. The handler or the person who is disabled does not have the luxury of “pet perks”, often we take many medications, and often suffer from many debilitating diseases and physical or mental impairments.

Yes we have our animals to help us, but then we must constantly acknowledge our disability by the patches on our service animals vest and attest before everyone what they do for us (that’s a loaded answer coming from us people with legal service animals).

I think those found guilty of using pets to pass as legal service animals should be arrested for fraud. Those people also should be fined the total amount it costs to pay for a service animal to be trained and then give that LEGAL service animal to someone who is really disabled. Maybe even also have them spend a week or a month with someone who is disabled and has a legal service animal, to understand the difference between “pet perks” and
service animals."

58

I wrote this before, but I have been asked many times to write a letter for emotionally support dogs. I limit to only long term patients. Even then, my letter was abused. The gal went thru local attorney to federal. Even though she had asked me for a copy of my letter, written 2 years prior, she told federal lawyer it was a service dog. She lied to 2 lawyers, and it cost me hours of my time, As well as the lawyers. You can’t believe the hard luck stories I hear, yet, people are willing to pay $$$ to get a letter to keep their precious on their plane, and not pay cargo fees.

59

The person who wrote that comment, gouf78, is not correct. If she calls it an ESA, then it is not a service animal and doesn’t have the right to go into stores, restaurants, public places. If she wants the benefits a trained service animal gets, she needs to follow the rules and label it as a service animal. I have never had an issue with true service animal. I’ve seen them in church, court houses, at camps, on public transportation - all doing their jobs and helping their masters. ESA are jumping around, whimpering, snapping at people.

Often you can tell the difference because the service animals are NOT allowed to be petted by the public. They are working. The ESA people want their pets to be accepted so have children petting them, feeding them, taking them away from their owners.

For the vet in the original post, I feel bad for him. He should have a SERVICE dog (the article switched back and forth between ESA and Service dog). The Wounded Warrior project does provide trained service dogs.

60

I don’t feel sorry for him at all. He didn’t control his vicious dog, that greviously wounded someone. He didn’t even have it muzzled. As veterans, we are obliged to protect people, not hurt them. Vets have a higher responsibility, I think, they should not automatically be looked upon as victims.