^^Well said, gouf. Exactly!! This is a freaking crazy policy, and it’s awful that people are going to have to get viciously attacked to get some changes to go through.
@gouf78 said:
That’s not true according to current law.
It wouldn’t bother me if they did away with this whole ESA concept. Unless they subjected both the owners and the animals to the same scrutiny they do Service Animals anyway.
I’m curious if the airline would have sat a parent with a lap child next to that huge dog of questionable breed.
I do feel sorry for airlines right now. I think, after all the hullabaloo of late, they are in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. I could easily envision headlines and the uproar if they refused the dog and people went off about how wrong they were to deny a vet suffering from PTSD from having a support animal, blah, blah, blah.
Some level headed people need to think through and implement a well thought out policy and address all this and close some loopholes allowing folks to take advantage of a policy that is too loose as it currently stands regarding ESA animals.
For those who keep saying Delta didn’t follow their own policy:
Their policy cannot trump federal law. The law states that ESAs must be allowed unless there is an obvious danger. Just because a dog is part pit bull does not mean it is inherently dangerous.
I think people are still getting ESAs confused with Service Dogs. Service dogs must be specifically trained. ESAs do not have to be trained or supply proof of training. The owner simply may be required to supply the letter from the physician prescribing it. Delta cannot refuse the animal if proper documentation is presented unless the dog was a clear danger. For all we know the dog was acting fine and dandy at the gate. The problem imo lies with the law and not the airlines who are required to obey it.
The guy was sure his dog would be put down I heard that part. I haven’t read anything that he was totally surprised at his dog’s reaction. But instead of the normal “seize dog” procedures in real life he got put on the next flight out (which probably did surprise him) while the victim went to the hospital to face probably plastic surgery and painful recovery.
His dog got properly crated and stowed for the next flight–guess his “emotional support” wasn’t so important after all.
Which was the proper procedure to follow the first time.
Fool me once…
Why?
Delta was trying to cover themselves and smooth things over as fast as possible. They screwed up big time.
They are better at their “make it go away” policy.
Hence the "chocolate lab/pointer mix " description, the “golden retriever on the grass” pictures–since not many pictures are available, the “vet” angle–poor guy! If they want to be good to vets–let the pets fly free.
But if I did it I’d be vilified for having a dangerous dog and nobody would say “awww, let the girl go with her too big dog who isn’t that friendly”. Gotta gain sympathy somewhere.
And Delta especially doesn’t want to be accused of allowing a dangerous dog on their flight especially since their policy specifically states they don’t allow specific breeds.
Ugh. Could have been me or you just as easily. The victim had the window seat and someone shows up with a 50 lb pit-bull mix to sit next to you with no warning. In the middle seat no less Now we can terrify two passengers instead of just one… Big guy with a big dog. And sits. You are fair game and trapped. I’m sure the people a row back were looking for the emergency exits too.
“the “golden retriever on the grass” pictures”
I haven’t seen the golden retriever photo but reportedly it is in a news story. That’s can’t be put on Delta’s shoulders.
@gouf78, their policy against certain breeds cannot be used in the case of ESAs, only your average Joe bringing his dog. Policy cannot trump federal law.
UNLESS the dog was showing aggression before boarding. That’s the question I have about it.
I’m not sure about that. Certain breeds are not allowed because they are likely to not survive the trip. Wouldn’t
that be reason enough?
Is Delta allowed to refuse large dogs if there isn’t an extra seat for them? Shouldn’t basic safety (aisle unblocked, tray table up, buckled in, etc.) trump ALL other concerns?
Which certain breeds wouldn’t likely survive the trip in the main cabin or first class?
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@rhandco, I've never seen a mark saying "dog in cabin" and have been on plenty of flights with dogs.
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Neither have I, but it would be useful. I have severe asthma and allergies to animal dander, so I’d like to know. At least you can take a walk on a train!
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My daughter and husband have severe cat allergies (hives, body swelling). So are you saying that I could somehow get them registered somewhere, and then when I book the flight give the airline notice, and they will make sure no cats are brought on board as long as no ADA or ESA cat has already been registered? I also thought that ADA/ESA animal owners could just show up and the airline had to accommodate?
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I don’t know. I said it would be good because with computers, they COULD keep track of it since it is a matter of health or life and death.
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On a separate note, you do hear about people who don't scam the system, their animal gets put below, and the animal dies. The most recent incident with that famous big bunny will only exacerbate the problem; you only need to hear one or two of these stories, and as a pet owner you'd be awfully tempted to scam the system to make sure your pet remains with you.
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A reason I doubt I will ever bring my pets overseas. I’d take a boat if I had to though.
I just don’t get it though. If you have a communicable disease, you can’t go on board a commercial plane, can you? If someone needs a wheelchair to get onto a plane, but they are too large to fit through the aisles on a proper size wheelchair, they don’t knock out chairs to make the aisle wider?
Too much of people feeling that public places are their own. The stuff about his emotional needs vs. the emotional state of others, I just don’t get it. Sometimes a disability means you can’t do certain things, period. Do people have to go to court to figure this out?
A pet, even a service pet, is like a child, and if it doesn’t want to go somewhere, it won’t.
Emotional Support animal, my backside. Lab mix - to anyone who has ever been a landlord - almost universally means pit bull mix.
The guy wanted to bring his pet on the plane. Bet money on it. These scammers ruin everything for decent people.
Just like the wheelchair scammers, which I have noticed in particular since I had surgery and returned the next day, so I rightfully utilized a wheelchair as I couldn’t stand much.
You used to see one or two people in chairs, here and there. Now you see 20 lined up to get on the plane. Yeah, right.
I’ve been trying to find the exact wording of the law as it pertains to ESAs. Most links are paraphrases rather than exact wording.
It says nothing about training or breeds or anything else about behavior. If someone can find it, that sure would be helpful. Surely there would be language included about animals that present a danger to others and how that is determined (it only addresses that above when talking about “unusual” or exotic animals, not dogs).
http://www.southwestada.org/html/topical/aircarrier/aircarrier_serviceanimals.html
Some of you are confusing Service animals, who do a legitimate job for the owner, and are highly trained (think guide dog for the blind) with Emotional Support (or Comfort) animals which do nothing and are not trained. They are pets that make the owners feel better. There should be zero accommodation for these pets. They are indeed pets.
Service animals do actual jobs and one can inquire what job the animal does, though not the nature of the disability. The pets/aka “emotional support animals” do nothing. All the owner has to do is present a letter from a “medical professional of any kind”, so yeah…your dental assistant/best friend can write one. Apparently the airlines aren’t even bothering with the letters, it seems.
Leave your pets at home. Period. I’d walk off if someone attempted to cram me in next to an animal and wouldn’t move me. I can’t be around cats at all, so hell no, I’m not being hospitalized so you can have your stupid pet.
Ask me how I really feel about this? 
I was a landlord for many years, and there are many, many scammers out there, trying to sneak their pets into no-pet housing (written into contract and previously agreed). I had one guy bring in about 5 animals, and spent the night wheezing one time because I had to attend to an HVAC issue and be in the house for an hour.
Never again.
But they have to be accommodated, by law.
Don’t mistake my comments to imply that I’m all for ESAs. I would not want to be sitting next to one either, and I love both cats and dogs. So many people apparently abuse the system that I’m just automatically cynical.
There are two sides to every argument. I’m disheartened by those saying to just keep your pets at home. Our current job & home situation requires that we travel cross country periodically for several months at a time. Too long to leave our pets home. No family in either location to sit on a long-term basis. I know families whose job required a temporary placement for 6 months – 2 years. These are not short-term vacations. Unless we abandon our pets to adoption (or worse), we have no choice but to transport them. We’ve always done so crated, but under the seat, for a fee. They are too old to go into the baggage hold, and I’ve heard horror stories of what can happen there. I understand the dilemma of severe allergies, but think the most fair option would be “first come first served”. If a reservation is made with severe allergies first, then the pet owner must find another flight – and vice versa. No last minute bumps for either. Other options welcome.
I dislike dogs–yeah, I know that’s unAmerican–and I am somewhat allergic to dog hair. I’m not going to die, but I am going to be stuffed up and miserable if dog hair gets on me. If you’re near me, you’re going to think I have a very bad cold.
The phony ESA dogs are becoming a real issue for me. My apartment building doesn’t allow dogs, but people are getting around that with the claim that their dogs are ESAs. It’s utter and complete nonsense. The worst is when I get into an elevator and a dog enters a floor or two lower down and I’m trapped in the elevator with them. Some of the neighbors who do this KNOW I’m allergic but do not care. They tell me I can walk up or down the stairs, but they don’t even offer me the option of getting out before getting into an elevator. Genuine service animals don’t go up to strangers and rub against them or smell their genitals. The ESA dogs do. One of them barked and jumped on a toddler who was petrified.
Our building has 2 elevators that go to each floor. We do NOT have a separate service elevator. So, if a dog sheds hair and I get in the elevator even after (s)he’s exited, I may get all stuffed up.
The latest battle is guests with ESAs. Our building has decided to ban them. The guests get all huffy and tell the poor doormen that they have a “legal right” to go anywhere with their ESA. They don’t…but most of them THINK that they do. A person with an ESA can live in a building like mine which otherwise bans dogs but someone with an ESA does NOT have a legal right to visit someone who lives in such a building. You can meet elsewhere.
The worst was when I had to have physical therapy and there was a woman with an ESA dog she brought into the area where the therapy equipment was. The facility insisted it could not stop this or ask what the disability was. Oh, and if I left because the dog was there, I’d be charged for the appointment.
The whole situation has become absolutely crazy.
^^^^^That sounds really annoying.
People do seem confused about the laws. The only rights ESA owners have with regard to the dogs are in housing and transportation. No store, restaurant, or other place has to accept them. Service animals, yes, but not ESAs.
“Their policy cannot trump federal law. The law states that ESAs must be allowed unless there is an obvious danger. Just because a dog is part pit bull does not mean it is inherently dangerous.”
But Delta’s policy lists pit bulls and ALL snub nosed dogs as “restricted breeds” (inherently dangerous)
United Airlines just lists these as “dangerous breeds” outright.
And crating and cargo happened after the fact. The guy didn’t step on the next plane with his “emotional” support dog.
Someone with sense obviously stepped in.
Someone smart–sent these guys out of there as soon as possible…both of them.
For the victim—
Poor flight attendant: “Should we send flowers? I feel terrible!”
Smart guy: " Talk to our attorney. I’d like to really but don’t want to admit guilt–Walmart is good when you get clearance–maybe some flowers that are already dying…
Get him a cheap card handmade and signed by a lowly flight attendant (maybe you!) who had to clean up the blood but doesn’t have a “dog” in the fight. . Sign it “sorry you had a less than stellar flight experience. We’ll have extra peanuts for you on your next flight. Just don’t promise leg room.
Have a nice day.”
“But ask the attorney first before doing anything at all.”
“What about the dog?”
“Get it out of here. NOW. It bites and I don’t want it near me or anybody frankly. My wife and kid aren’t flying today are they?”
BUT for PR it’s a lab --definitely not a pit bull or mix or anything listed anywhere in any records that eats noses–ever.
Call public relations. Do what you have to." “Here’s some cash.” (small bills only)
" (lower breath) And what is WRONG with you guys letting that thing on a plane!"
l
“What about the dog owner?”
" Is he even still here?" “When’s the next flight out?” Why isn’t he in a closet already?
" Yea! He’s a vet! We are a totally wonderful company that serves our country! Go with that."
“Get him out of here as soon as possible or you all are fired.”
“How about the shipping fees for the dog?”
–“Okay, charge him half price.”
Where Delta’s requirement to provide a safe flight conflicts with their requirement to accommodate ESAs, safety takes precedence. We haven’t heard how the dog or owner were behaving prior to boarding. We probably will. Delta may be willing to settle quickly and quietly as United did, but the dog owner probably won’t.
I think the solution is to allow ESA’s to fall under the service animal umbrella but then require the same certification process for ESA’s as is required for current service animals. I’m okay with landlords and airlines being required to admit ESA’s. What I’m not okay with is every Tom, Dick, or Harry being able to claim their pet as an ESA. The process of getting a certified service animal is long and involved and only well-trained animals with the appropriate temperament pass the testing. Someone with a legitimate psychological need, e.g., a vet with TBI and PTSD, can already qualify for such an animal.