@pbleigh He’s intereted in both, but he hasn’t decided which one yet. I wish it weren’t so difficult to get advice for an engineering advisor. I feel like we will have to just make a trip to CS before NSC and hopefully be able to talk to one face to face.
With regard to computer engineering in comp sci or electrical at A&M, it have heard it said that there is very little difference, and it’s more about who you want to hang out with - hardware people or software people.
@Lalibela OK so the good news is that both of those degree plans also include CSCE 222 which is also on the list of acceptable Math courses you have to take 2 of freshman year in order to meet the math requirement for ETAM. The average GPA of CSCE is much higher then MATH 308. The prereq for CSCE 222 is Calc 1, so since he has DE credit for Calc 1 he can choose to take that either semester freshman year. He should definitely take his Calc2 credit because the average GPA range is pretty scary for that class. For example, last semester listed on anex had 24 sections ranging from 1.2 GPA to 2.8 GPA and an average of all sections of 2.3. Some teachers are much better then others, and it becomes a game during pre-registration and open registration to get the best teachers and still have a decent schedule. So for math I would recommend he take MATH 251 ( Calculus 3) and CSCE 222 his freshman year.
For science you also have to take 2 from the following list:
CHEM 107/117 or CHEM 101/111 or CHEM 119
CHEM 102/112 or CHEM 120
PHYS 206
PHYS 207
PHYS 222
Since your son has Chem 1 and Chem2 already with DE, you can skip those, however if he does he will then have to take 2 from the remaining list. He is taking Physics 1 now or Phys 206 so that leaves Phys 207 and Phys 222. Phys 222 is not on his degree plans so that presents an issue. You may be able to get a waiver for the second science since he doesn’t need 222 on a degree plan but that has to come from general engineering advising. Also, I believe it will also present a problem for you to take Phys 2 over the summer to transfer in, but I am not sure of this; you will have to check with advising. I think the issue may be that once you are admitted you can’t just choose to take your remaining science and get a waiver, it doesn’t work that way. You have to leave at least 2 to take at TAMU. If I am wrong and they will give you waivers for both science, great! If he ends up taking Phys 207 at TAMU, make it the first semester if possible so that if he Q-drops it he has the second semester to take it over before ETAM.
Has he taken any other AP classes or DE classes? If not, both degree plans have him taking English and ENGR 102 first semester and ENGR 216 second semester. He can also add an easy Core Curriculum elective if he still has some to take. HLTH 236 is web based class, section GPA distribution between 3.6 and 3.9.
https://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/general-information/university-core-curriculum/
https://core.tamu.edu/
Link to degree plans:
https://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/electrical-computer/computer-engineering-bs-electrical-engineering-track/#programrequirementstext
https://catalog.tamu.edu/undergraduate/engineering/computer-science/computer-engineering-bs-computer-science-track/#programrequirementstext
Also, I would suggest adding CSCE 181, it is a one credit hour class for a grade that is supposed to present an introduction into computer science and engineering; its average GPA was 3.9.
We did this the summer before he started. You are able to make an appointment with a general engineering advisor and go over what is possible and not possible with freshman year schedules. We combined that with touring the housing he was assigned and measuring. You can also make an appointment with the advising for the department he wants to get into. My son thought he was likely BMEN at the time so we went there and they gave him lots of tips on making a schedule.
Re: #42
Seems like the ETAM process and the perception of it being high risk for those not making the 3.5 automatic first choice GPA is turning frosh engineering students into grade grubbers like stereotypical stressed out pre-meds.
The lack of published ETAM admission rates for each major by GPA band appears to feed this perception that encourages grade grubbing.
@ucbalumnus I think if you are set on going to TAMU and majoring in Computer Engineering or Mech Engineering then you have to go on the assumption that you will only be able to get it with auto admit or higher than 3.5 GPA. Thus the strategizing before the freshman year starts. I don’t think it’s a good system, but I would rather he go to TAMU than OOS.
@pbleigh Thank you! That is extremely helpful.
The difficulty of getting any popular major at ETAM time will probably long/always be a moving target. My son’s roommate got into MEEN with less than a 3.0 GPA out of Spring 2019 application. It surprised even him. I know him personally, spoke with him directly, and I know he was telling me the truth. That was the first ETAM year with the more demanding ETAM application course requirements. I also believe that students truly can change their minds about which specialty suits them, even a year or so into college.
A spring ETAM would have had an extra semester, right? And not all majors do spring admits? Is that correct?
If a student starts at TAMU in the fall semester, then the end of the following spring is the first time they might be eligible to apply for ETAM. All students must have completed 2 math, 2 science, and 2 engineering courses at TAMU from a set of courses above a certain level to apply. Students must actually take the minimum number of these courses at TAMU, not place out of them.
We would expect that the spring ETAM would be the biggest pool of applicants, but students apply when they are eligible to do so. In my son’s case, for example, he had to revert back to taking Math 150 because he went into the MPE completely unprepared, so he was automatically looking at not being able to apply for ETAM until after his third semester.
As far as we can tell from information that has been released or estimated, all engineering majors take students from ETAM each major semester, but the slots have been limited after a big set of ETAM students accepted in the previous semester.
@MomHopesNxtGenAg I know at least if you have AP credit for all or a subset of the courses on the ETAM list you can get a waiver for the requirement depending on what you have. My son did this.
Spring ETAM is the bigger admittance time; the spring refers to the semester the kids do the application, and is the first semester for kids who started in the Fall with Calculus. Every major takes kids every semester ETAM.
The Fall ETAM (for admittance the next Spring) is not necessarily an extra semester; they made a change to ETAM and it would be the first opportunity for auto admit ETAM for students who started in pre-Calculus.
Hi, @pbleigh. There may be other pre-engineering students that could take your son’s route through ETAM prerequisites. Would you elaborate just a bit on the waivers he got?
@MomHopesNxtGenAg There is a list of courses you have to take at least two of for both science and math to ETAM. If with a combination of what you have AP credit for and what you have taken at TAMU fulfills that entire list of courses, but it means you have taken less then 2 at TAMU, you can get a waiver for the course(s) you didn’t take at TAMU. For example, in my son’s case he had AP credit for both Physics 1 and 2 and Chemistry 1. The only course left on the science list was Chem 2 so he took that and got a waiver for taking the second class at TAMU, because they cannot force you to retake an AP class. I do not know if it works the same with Dual Credit courses. I would imagine that for Math it rarely comes into play because the ETAM list includes Calculus 1-3 plus Differential Equations which is rarely completed in high school. In my son’s case here, he had AP credit for Calc1 and 2 and took Calc3 and Differential Equations his freshman year to ETAM. No waiver here because there were two additional advanced Math courses on the list he could take at TAMU.
We all tend to get a bit sensitive when it comes to our kids. Certain kids will excel regardless where they start. So I have no doubt that someone at non cs campus will do well after entering a major. Generally speaking though…
- Even the courses are the same, the surrounding kids are not. It’s reasonable to say that **in general ** kids at cs have stronger background/prep than those at a non cs campus. Most professors will give exams that require more than the knowledge of what’s taught in class. They want to see how far students can go. It is not uncommon to have one exam without or very few 90+ score. The professors will curve the class and adjust next tests accordingly. We can argue all day long but yes, it’s different between cs and non cs.
- I personally don’t buy in the idea that all kids should be evaluated the same when it’s time for etam evaluation. It’d be too naive to believe so and that all programs are the same or will prep students the same way.
- If your gpa is 2.0 or 3.0, you should not complain about not being able to get into the major you want. We all want this and that. But maybe this is the last wake up call to tell you that this is not for you. If the school lets you go on with the major that you want, what do you think will happen in the next three years or so? First year’s courses are very basic. If you can’t make it with good gpa, there is a very slim chance that you will make it the next three years. Even if you make it, there is pretty much zero chance you can get a job with that low gpa and will end up switching major which should have happened long ago.
@icedmachiato So, how would you remedy the inequity in ETAM evaluation between the academies/Galveston/McAllen (also non-cs) and the College Station campus?
No need to remedy.
For anyone who thinks the difficulty levels/training are the same across all campuses, maybe you should head over reddit and read some comments from the real students who got to cs through these paths.
I hope I didn’t sound snarky – I didn’t intend to! This is interesting to me. I guess I thought since you wrote that it’s naive to believe that all kids should be evaluated the same way, regardless of freshman program, you would have some ideas for improving the way they are currently evaluated.
Actually, I have read quite a few reddit posts (It’s a bit tedious, frankly.) but I haven’t found any posters (yet) who claim they are former academy/Galveston/McAllen students who feel unprepared or who now struggle in engineering at cs. Maybe I’ve missed them – it’s entirely possible that I’m not searching correctly.
In many ways, I understand where @icedmachiato is coming from. On the other hand, more than one experience that I’ve had with young people suggest that some students who do poorly their first college year may simply not have reached the maturity needed. Even though the courses may seem “basic” to some, it’s still quite a transition for others. And yet they have good potential. Here are two anecdotes among many. One of my sons went on hard academic probation after his first year in pre-med/comp sci at UT, took a (forced) semester off and worked, and learned how to do well after he went back–very, very well in fact. He will have four semesters on their equivalent of Dean’s List when he graduates and another semester that was very close. He heard the college wake up call. We knew all along that he had the necessary intellectual potential and just committed to supporting him as hard as we could. My other son’s first roommate at TAMUG was an excellent student late in high school but knew and admitted that he had messed around his early years, hence lower rank at graduation. He placed out of Cal III at TAMUG and soon ended up in CS. Yes, weak grades make it much more difficult when employee searches look so closely at GPA, no doubt about that at all, but there are still things that can be done for a student’s resume as long as their GPA finishes at a pretty decent level. My study group is pre-engineering students for the most part, mostly male. I don’t really see that If a student can’t make it with good gpa their first year, there is a very slim chance that they will make it the next three years. Probably I’ve just seen a different group. Also, some young people do just fall on the opposite side of whatever line TAMU has for full admission.
I am a working engineer, trained educator, and Aggie. I was a good student but the parent of late bloomers in spite of helping them get a way, way above average high school education. I have also mentored many young engineers and can also see them change and grow rapidly. I am still on the fence about ETAM in general, but I don’t support varying requirements for those applying from different programs. The line needs to be the line, and we need to help the weaker students catch up as much as we can beforehand for everyone’s sake.