<p>Also, what’s this business about giving the letter to the kid? In my high school the letters never touched my hands.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why the kid can’t see the letter.</p>
<p>I’m a high school teacher who writes at least 40 letters of recommendation each year, and I would never even contemplate charging for this. However, I’m a bit disturbed by some who seem to think of this as “part of my job.” Let me enlighten those folks by making two points: </p>
<p>1) Each letter takes a minimum of one hour. With at least 40 such letters, that means that I work an extra week per year just writing these. Those who do not put in an extra week per year should perhaps not be so quick to impose it on others.</p>
<p>2) Writing a letter of recommendation is purely discretionary on my part. There is absolutely nothing that contractually requires me to do so. If you would like to make some sort of moral argument that I am required to write these, I can just as easily make some sort of moral argument that I am ridiculously underpaid for the job that I do.</p>
<p>westerndad1, what if students paid you… not for the quality of the recommendation but for the time you expended writing them. That way you could get compensated for your time. </p>
<p>If a doctor was required to put in an extra week of work, he’d probably charge for it</p>
<p>David,</p>
<p>I would never take compensation from students or parents because it could, indeed, put us down the slippery slope mentioned in previous posts. An alternative would be for the school district to compensate for time spent on writing letters, but that will never happen. (By the way, the “dead time” for teachers mentioned in a previous post really was a hoot! Oh, yes, we have all sorts of extra time!)</p>
<p>In lieu of compensation, I would be reasonably satisfied with a level of respect from students and parents who are not so quick to see letters as entitlements and who are not so quick to impose additional work upon me as “part of my job.”</p>
<p>westerndad, almost every private university requires a letter of reccomendation from 1-2 teachers. if u are a teacher for juniors or seniors in high school, it should be assumed that its part of ur job. of course, students and their parents should be appreciative as i am(give a gift as a token of appreciation) but for u to say tht its not part of ur job bc its additional work is ridiculous. so wht if its an extra “week” of work a yr–u grade papers dont u? tht takes time thts not in the 9-5 work schedule. of course theres nothing contractual forcing u to write recs but why wouldnt u want to help a student further his/her education with a nice letter. if u feel someone is not a good student, its perfectly reasonable and courteous to tell them tht u dont feel u can write them the kind of rec they want. some teachers in my school ask for a list of activities, grades, wht ur good traits are… and tht in itself shows respect–its not like a student just says “here, write me a letter!” most, who are normal, ask a teacher nicely out of respect but a teacher, out of respect for a student who wants to further their education, should be willing and put effort into writing a letter.</p>
<p>ChocolateChip87,</p>
<p>1) Do you have any idea how many other things are “assumed” to be part of my job? This is precisely the disrespectful attitude that drives teachers crazy.</p>
<p>2) How cavalier of you to say, “so wht if its an extra ‘week’ of work.” Are you this presumptuous with other people’s time? And I certainly noticed your use of quotation marks around the word, “week,” as if to say that the hours that I put in do not really add up to that. Again, what a lack of respect.</p>
<p>3) About my “9-5 work schedule:” I arrive at school at 6:45 and teach classes all the way through to 2:00. Then I grade the day’s work, take care of administrative matters, make phone calls to parents, answer parent and student e-mails, help out students, attend meetings, do lesson planning … perhaps you get the idea. When I arrive home, I sometimes just crash on the couch, but I often have a batch of essays to grade. I teach five sections of AP classes; do you have any idea of how long it takes me to grade essays for just one class of 35 students? 5-10 minutes per essay. You do the math.</p>
<pre><code>None of this includes the consulting work that I do on the side in order to provide a decent life for my family.
Do not construe all of this to be complaining. I LOVE what I do. I can’t imagine doing anything else. It’s just that I find it so hard to tolerate the lack of respect that is inherent in your post.
</code></pre>
<p>4) “but why wouldnt u want to help a student further his/her education with a nice letter.” That is precisely why I write these letters, and why I rejoice with my students when they are admitted to their schools of choice.</p>
<p>Chocolatechip - that’s ridiculous.</p>
<p>Westerndad - Do you give the letters you write to the students or directly to whatever guidance/counseling dept there is at your school?</p>
<p>How is it disrespectful for it to be assumed tht teachers of college bound students will be willing to write rec letters for them, esp the good students? im sure u have tons of work and i fully understand how hard teachers work but this IS part of the job. my father is a doctor and although it is not contractual to speak at length with concerned family members, he does it happily because its ASSUMED as part of the job. so is waking up in the middle of the nite from a phone call to come to the hospital immediately. working from 7am-7pm and then reviewing patient files, putting in prescriptions…he doesnt always get respect from people and doesnt complain because its part of the job description. so is “grade the day’s work, take care of administrative matters, make phone calls to parents, answer parent and student e-mails, help out students, attend meetings, do lesson planning.” my father could get away with just taking care of patients and nothing else but to be a good doctor requires more-same thing goes with a teacher. again, u have the right to refuse give a student a rec but why would u unless he/she did something to wrong u. and to charge? thts ridiculous.</p>
<p>Chocolatechip - you’re pretty ungrateful.</p>
<p>Do you thank your teacher after every class? Probably not.</p>
<p>Would you thank him after writing you a recommendation? Probably.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because the teacher is doing something extra for you. That’s why.</p>
<p>Chocolate Chip,</p>
<p>“u have the right to refuse give a student a rec”</p>
<ul>
<li>A reading of my previous posts would suggest that I don’t do that very often. Actually, I can’t remember the last time that I refused to do so.</li>
</ul>
<p>“and to charge? thts ridiculous.” </p>
<ul>
<li>Even a cursory reading of my posts indicated that I have never even contemplated doing so.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>As for the rest of your post … you do a lot of assuming. Therein lies the problem.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>excuse me but u dont know me. i thank my teachers by being respectful to them, behaving in class, and putting in effort in my work just as they put in effort to teach it to me. i also thank them by giving gifts during christmas time and at the end of the year and i TA for a teacher who i feel put in a lot of effort to help me understand the subject she was teaching and who did write me a rec.<br>
“Because the teacher is doing something extra for you. That’s why.”–thats ridiculous, when a teacher helps a student during lunch, a student says thank you. its something extra the teacher did for the kid but that doesnt mean that its not assumed that helping a kid during lunch once in a while isnt obligatory. students are stressed enough with the entire college admissions process, why add to the worry tht their teachers won’t write them recs. of course teachers deserve tons of respect, not just when they write a rec but all the time but assuming that a teacher will be willing to write a rec is not disrespectful.</p>
<p>"“and to charge? thts ridiculous.” </p>
<ul>
<li>Even a cursory reading of my posts indicated that I have never even contemplated doing so. "
THT WASN’T DIRECTED SPECIFICALLY TO U, THAT WAS TO THE THREAD IN GENERAL.</li>
</ul>
<p>"“u have the right to refuse give a student a rec”</p>
<ul>
<li>A reading of my previous posts would suggest that I don’t do that very often. Actually, I can’t remember the last time that I refused to do so."
MY POINT IN THIS WAS THT ITS NOT EXACTLY OBLIGATORY, BUT ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR A GOOD STUDENT WHOS RESPECTED U.</li>
</ul>
<p>I hesitate to jump in here, but wanted to add my two cents. With all due respect to teachers (my sister is one), I think that the teachers unions draw attention to time when the teachers have worked beyond their contractual obligation. But many, many occupations require moral or contractual overtime. Even non-hourly healthcare workers (my area) tend to notice overtime because hospital shifts run on the clock, but nobody would refuse patient care because the work day was technically over. I remember my father doing paperwork on lots of weekends when I was a kid and my husband’s eight hour work day often stretches into nine or ten or more. For most of us, this means we get a good annual review and get to keep our jobs. I think that teachers composing free, well-written recommendations, if a good recommendation is due, falls under the area of moral obligation. Teaching is not a career for clock-watchers. I have never heard of a teacher refusing a student recommendation, much less charging for it, thank goodness.</p>
<p>A teacher might decline to write a rec for the same reason a doctor may not reurn all patient calls at the end of the day or charge to submit a disability report. There is a point where moral obligation meets self-preservation. I have no problem with a teacher who puts a reasonable cap on the number of letters he writes. This is one reason to decline a request. Also, a teacher should not accept a request unless he can, in fact, recommend the student. Remember: It’s a letter of recommendation, not an assessment.</p>
<p>I see that some teachers have mentioned that they don’t appreciate being unappreciated for writing letters of recommendation. Because I earlier said that the teachers I know, without exception, regard writing letters of recommendation as part of their job description, let me additionally say that I by no means think that the student who receives a letter of recommendation should take that for granted. It is widely accepted that the STUDENT should pay the postage, address the envelope, prepare any necessary summary of personal activities, and provide the application form. And as several of the teacher have correctly pointed out in this thread, a letter of recommendation is only warranted in a particular case if the student can genuinely be recommended for enrollment in a particular program. Teachers must be able to decline writing letters when they have reservations about the student. </p>
<p>My son has one application to a summer program pending right now, and I INSIST that he be very thankful to his busy teacher and let him know how the application turned out, with a thank-you card. Previous threads here on CC have written about appropriate thank-you gifts in a public school context, and I agree that that is something every student should consider (although in my community volunteer teacher/coach context I don’t necessarily get gifts after I write letters of recommendation). Everybody needs more appreciation than anybody gets, and I do want to let my son’s math teachers know that they are appreciated. I also appreciate the various comments of participants here who have helped provide a three-dimensional view of this issue.</p>
<p>Teaching is not a career for clock-watchers. I have never heard of a teacher refusing a student recommendation, much less charging for it, thank goodness.>></p>
<p>I agree that teaching is not a career for clock-watchers. I also believe that writing recs is not something extra that teachers do, but an integral part of teaching, whether or not it is in their contract. There are many many things that are not in contracts but are expected of individual workers, as is shown in “working to rules” protests are held. It is not disrespectful to assume that teachers will write recs for students, since teachers’ recommendations are an integral part of the college application process. If teachers are not properly compensated, which is the case for many, that is something to bring up with the school board. </p>
<p>It is appropriate for teachers to set a cap on the number of recs they write, to decline requests for recs from some students, especially if they do not feel they can write a positive one, and to set deadlines for requests to write recs. One of my S’s teachers, for example, announced, in plenty of time, that she would not accept requests after Thanksgiving. I don’t recall her announcing a cap, but that would have been proper, provided that her policy was well known.</p>
<p>A Question: If you feel it is unethical for a teacher to charge for a recommendation, do you think it is appropriate for the school to charge an administrative fee for signing and certifying college applications and documents?</p>
<p>1) “Teaching is not a career for clock watchers.” Boy, you sure have that right. I don’t know many teachers who work to the clock. I do know many, many teachers who work well past the clock, take work home for the evening, and work on weekends.</p>
<p>2) “Writing a letter is a moral obligation.” Wow, what a loose interpretation of “moral.” I thought that moral issues were those that related to the more serious aspects of life and death. A letter of recommendation falls into this category? </p>
<p>3) “Teachers can simply put a cap on the number of recommendations they can write.” But wait a minute: if there is a moral obligation to write a letter for one deserving student, isn’t there a moral obligation to write one for any deserving student? Morality implies a certain level of consistency that is lost if one puts a cap on the number of letters written.</p>
<p>4) “It is not disrespectful to assume that teachers will write recs for students …” The key word here is “assume.” This implies a level of entitlement that I refuse to accept. To repeat: I write many letters each year, and I can’t even remember the last time that I turned down a student. Students come to me specifically because they know that I write good letters, and because my letters have helped past students. They appreciate this, and that is all the compensation that I need. But teachers like me are sensitive (perhaps overly so) to society’s lack of respect for what we do, so when we read about “clock watching,” “moral obligation,” and “assumptions,” we may overreact.</p>
<p>It is disrespectful for an individual student to assume that teachers will be willing to write recs for him/her. That’s entitlement. It is not disrespectful for students to assume that teachers will write recs for students. It IS part of a teacher’s job, and that’s what colleges expect. Assuming that teachers will write letters for students does not preclude also expecting students to be grateful and to thank teachers appropriately (but not paying for the rec).</p>