Every Parent's Nightmare

Parents Forum
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<p>The Spierer family would not be the first family of a victim to remain obsessively focused on the first person or persons the police pointed at, even when contradictory evidence emerged. In this case, since at least some of the guys are also known to them personally, they would hope that personal appeals would result in information that would resolve at least this stage of the excruciating misery of not knowing what happened to their daughter.</p>

<p>It is also true that the family has named no names in their appeals. For all we know, they may be directing them to the BF or some of his friends. We don’t know what knowledge of forensics/alibis, etc the police might have shared with them.</p>

<p>If the guys really do not know what happened to her, then where are they to turn? Their best hope of having an effect on finding her is gone. It is unlikely that appeals to a completely unknown predator would have any result. So focusing on the students is their best hope of resolution.</p>

<p>Please note that I am not saying that all of these guys are definitely innocent of her death or of any wrongdoing in the case, such as hiding her body. I’m just saying that they MAY be telling the truth, in which case assuming they are guilty is not only wrong, but may actually impede the process of finding the truth.</p>

<p>Limabeans, the back story–involving long term family relationships, BF/GF relationships, prior arrests of virtually all concerned for substance-related activities, Rossman’s prior banishment from the apartment complex, fights–is pretty complex. I believe that earlier reports said that the BF was looked at, just because he was the BF. (He is also the one who reported her missing, IIRC.) One would assume that the police have looked at his whereabouts during the relevant timeframe, and also examined his car/apt. But who knows.</p>

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<p>Does anyone know how soon after a death the body starts producing the scent that cadaver dogs smell? For example, if a dead body was removed from an apartment within an hour of a person’s death, would the cadaver dogs be able to smell that the dead body had been there?</p>

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<p>^^you and I think alike but I didn’t get a chance to post yesterday…</p>

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<p>I somehow think it would be pretty difficult for a couple of scared, drunk/high 20/21 year olds to dispose of a body without a scrap of evidence left somewhere and while eluding the security cameras that seem to be everywhere in the area. Doesn’t make sense to me…not a hair, print, scent, nothing?</p>

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<p>We need CSI tv show on the case & it would have been solved in like a one-hour segment, rather than torturing the poor family for months! Ah, if only it were that simple & definitive!</p>

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<p>Properly trained cadaver dogs can note the scent within minutes after a death, weeks after it occurred. But who knows the quality of the dogs that did the investigation? </p>

<p>What the problem seems to be is that the kids with whom LS spent those last hours are not forthcoming at all in what they were doing. My guess is that a lot of it was illegal or not very nice, and they see no reason to tell anyone as they feel it has nothing to do with the disappearance. Which may well be true, if indeed she did walk off at 4:30 AM as JR says he saw her do. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there is no proof that she did do that, so the guys are on the hook. None of them are in the clear because there is no proof. How many people have iron clad alibis for 4:30 AM? I could not swear that all of my household was at home on a given morning at that time. In a college town where things don’t often stir till noon, especially on a Friday, a Summer Friday, there is no telling who took a long ride out somewhere and dropped off Lauren. </p>

<p>Personally, I am believing what the young men are saying, and I think LS was picked up by someone, known or unknown to her, as she was on her way home, and that person has not even been picked up by the police and media radar. Just one of those unlucky things as in the Leiby Kletzy case. Yes, it’s rare, but it can happen. In her case, with a heart condition and if she was taking drugs and drink like it has been reported that she was, it is highly likely that she ODed and whoever had her last panicked and dumped the body. The question is whether it was JR who admits she was at his place for some time that morning but who says she left on her own, or whether it was someone else who was last with her. The problem is that JR did not have access to his car at the time, so he would have had to use someone else’s to do this. Also his apartment and car have been checked out and no sign of a cadaver has been detected. However, JR is not talking about what his activities were that morning.</p>

<p>Though there are security cameras galore in the area, where JR lived and where LS is last noted to be, there are none. Nor are there any along the route she was taking to her place. It can just be substantiated that she did not make it to her building where there are security cameras. Her journey, coming from the other direction, to JR’s place is chronicled in part by cameras.</p>

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<p>Is it appropriate behavior for young people in any condition to let a friend who is completely inebriated to just walk off?</p>

<p>If there is an excuse, it is a very bad one, thus double jeopardy.
Is a memory lapse reasonable without the same excuse?
Felonious drugging and drinking, no question.</p>

<p>Can they have it both ways? Get away with illegal behavior which excuses their other behavior, I mean??</p>

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<p>A certain recent verdict certainly would sway those with any involvement at all who know where a body is to not give up that information because we now know that, without a cause of death, there is no murder.</p>

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<p>What happened those early morning hours does not put anyone in good light. Clearly, Lauren was illegally drinking as she is underage, was inebriated as seen on the cameras, and was probably also taking drugs from what witnesses who heard her talking have said. She was thrown out of the bar, and I have a big issue with that—kicking out someone so incapacitated at that time of the morning, a tiny woman with no shoes, no phone–both left at the bar, instead of calling the police or someone in her contacts on her phone. She went home with CR who got into an altercation with a group of guys at her apartment building; CR apparently was persona non grata there, on a No Trespassing list, and was punched by someone. All of that is on tape and on record. So then she and he staggered out of there without her going to her place, and again that is on tape, and headed to his place. The journey there seems to be chronicled with her losing her purse and keys enroute. When they got to his place, CR’s roommate who was sober and working on papers due the next day, put CR to bed and declined to join LS in her partying. The roommate’s school projects were verified, and JR admits that Lauren showed up shortly after the time the roommate, MB says she left CR and him. She was just going 2 doors down to an old friend’s place, JR. At this point in time, someone should have noticed that she was incapacitated terribly and have insisted she go home, while she was at her apartment. CR was probably not in much better shape and after taking a blow claims his memory was affected. Maybe, maybe not, but if he was taking the Xanax and drinking as it was reported, that would do it. MB, the roommate probably should called someone and insisted that she go home or something, but then she was going to a friend’s place right near by.</p>

<p>What transpired at JR’s place is anyone’s guess. What does one do after 3AM till 4:30 AM, and still be awake and want to continue home? Who knows what kind of shape JR was in and what he even remembers of that time. There is a phone call from his phone to a neighbor and friend of Lauren’s who lived in her building that was unanswered, and JR ostensibly says Lauren made the call at 4:15, hoping the guy was still awake, and might give her a ride home. Since he was asleep, he did not answer, so she decided to go home herself despite JR telling her to stay at his place. All of this hearsay evidence except for the unanswered call to the young man from JR’s phone. JR says he saw her out of his place, and turning the corner to home which is literally minutes away.</p>

<p>Two young women who got off work, actually walked by the apartments where JR and CR lived at the time LS was still there. They saw and heard nothing. Both women were walking home alone as they regularly did and one missed Lauren’s exodus by just 10 minutes or so, if indeed she did leave JR’s at 4:30 AM. </p>

<p>To blame Lauren at this point is futile. She has paid as has her family for any of the behavior of that morning. She did not get away with it. As for the young men, yes, they were unchivalrous, not good freinds, unwise, foolish, yes. Probably also indulging in illegal activities. But did they have anything directly to do with her disappearance? No proof. And if they did not,they are paying for their part in that morning’s activities terribly. All of them have criminal attorneys, have given DNA, taken polygraphs and are being panned unmercifully on internet boards everywhere. I don’t think a number of them will return to IU as there is much animosity towards them. Some people are convinced of the worst from them.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse: you do know that these kids had criminal attorneys PRIOR to this incident as well, though, right? </p>

<p>… they all had prior criminal dealings with the Bloomington police (including LS’ boyfriend)…</p>

<p>and according to the same article (where their criminal records were stated), a number of them had decided not to return to IU immediately after LS went missing; in addition, I think it stated that they had not even registered for fall prior to June 3rd…?</p>

<p>I had posted this article earlier in the thread…Who’s who in the Lauren Spierer case: HeraldTimesOnline.com</p>

<p>I do agree that they being panned unmercifully on internet boards, but for what?..</p>

<p>whatever happened to Lauren, whether they have knowledge or not, they should NEVER have let her roam around in that condition that night;
“friends just don’t do that” (and this is quoted from my 18 and 21 year old daughters)</p>

<p>For this, and, maybe, only for this, I disagree that they are being panned “unmercifully”…even if they are innocent of foul play, they are guilty of being irresponsible and acting like “jerks” (again, not my words)</p>

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<p>Here is a piece of this situation that really troubles me (beyond the obvious troubling aspects) - where were her girlfriends? Girls tend to travel in packs - or at least pairs. How is it that she was so wasted at this bar - without a girlfriend to keep an eye on her and take her home? Did they all leave earlier? I am confused as to how she is bouncing from one of these guys to the next - where are her roommates? How could her girlfriends desert her? And is it possible that they know more about what really happened?</p>

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<p>^^ my reference to “friends don’t do that” would extend to your questions…totally agree…</p>

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<p>I think many girls these days have as close or almost as close friendly relationships with boys as girls. My D is as likely to hang out with several of her male friends as female friends. In high school, her best friends were all guys. Were any of these guys strangers to her or were they part of a circle of friends?</p>

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<p>Everyone of the guys was in Lauren’s circle of friends except for Corey Rossman. They had met a few weeks earlier at they Indy 500. There’s an interview with two of Lauren’s friends, (one is her roommate who has known her since she was young) who say they were always in constant contact with Lauren (implying they were close friends). They both say in the interview that they had never heard of this Corey Rossman guy prior to the investigation.</p>

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<p>Yes, in many instances. </p>

<p>The fact that Lauren was in the company of male friends at several times during the evening does not, in itself, imply anything out of the ordinary. The fact that she was very strongly under the influence of one or more substances does.</p>

<p>But still, the civilized male college student does not let his female friends walk home alone late at night. My son knew this, and so did my daughter’s male friends. I would think that this rule of behavior would apply even more strongly when the young woman is so intoxicated that she is dropping her possessions in her path.</p>

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<p>Only one item was dropped in her path, a bag. Her keys and cell phone were left at the bar she was at. She was wearing leggings, so that explains why her phone was not on her. And the bar had sand on the floor, so it really isn’t that odd that she left her shoes. I’m not saying that she wasn’t impaired, just that there is not as much evidence to suggest she was as intoxicated as some on here seem to think.</p>

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<p>Yes, the sad thing is that NO ONE stepped up to protect this young woman or did anything to intervene and help keep her safe, even from herself, since it appeared to many that she was not making good choices for quite a while before her disappearance.</p>

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<p>My brother was an Armed Forces recruiter for a while. He could not believe how rare it was to find a young person without a criminal record of sorts. Most of the time the offense was substance abuse of such. From what I have read, all of the kids named in the Lauren Spierer disappearance have records dealing with underage drinking and some with other substance abuse and not showing up in court for those charges. Lauren has a record too. Apparently they all have fake ids as well. So much for the 21 drinking age for that college town.</p>

<p>Lauren was very inebriated and out of it from the video tapes of her at her apartment building. Kilroys, the bar where she was, kicked her out because she was so out of it. All of that is fact. </p>

<p>As for not returning to Bloomington, I don’t blame them. If I were a parent of one of those men, I would not want them to go there. Too dangerous for them with the animosity and the publicity that they are getting. They are also not the brightest and most mature folks around and their reactions to all of this have been commensurate to those who might have drinking violations and would let a woman walk alone at night. My guess is that their conditions were not optimal those early morning hours. </p>

<p>I don’t know if the attorneys they have now are the same ones who represented them in their more petty doing. Jim Voyles is a top criminal attorney, and he is not one you would get for a drinking violation that will net a $400 fine and seems to be a revenue source for Bloomington. I can’t blame the parents for getting lawyers for those dimwits either. Too easy to get themselves in trouble saying the wrong thing. It is a federal offense to deal drugs and if you provide drugs to someone who ODs, you are liable. For them to admit they were taking drugs that night and sharing with Lauren could get them netted in homicide charges if she is ever found with such drugs in her system and they are considered the cause of her death. Even if she did walk away on her own at 4:30 AM as JR states. I am sure they have invoked the fifth regarding any questions about illegal activities that they may have been doing at that time.</p>

<p>Also, there is always that issue of DNA. From what I have read, they have all given their DNA to authorities. It is possible that drugs was not only the activity that evening and, again, if Lauren is found, someone might have some serious charges. So even if these guys are all telling the truth and Lauren was picked up by someone else after she left at 4:30 AM, there is a good possibility that those guys can be on the hook for some criminal charges and certainly a lot of questions. The fact that she has a heart condition makes it even more likely that she could not take the “partying” that she had that night. </p>

<p>JR’s attorney, Voyles has made the statement that his client does not know what happened to Lauren and had nothing to do with her disappearance. JR took a private polygraph, and it seems that those questions were covered. However, there was probably little information, if any, given out about their activities that morning.</p>

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<p>I doubt many of these folks remember much of how they got into thes pix. Some are a tad PG</p>

<p>[Drunk:</a> What happens to people who drink too much and pass out. Too funny! - fox59.com](<a href=“http://www.fox59.com/video/photos/kiah-drunkpeople-pg,0,2515850.photogallery]Drunk:”>http://www.fox59.com/video/photos/kiah-drunkpeople-pg,0,2515850.photogallery)</p>

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<p>We have close friends whose daughter graduated from IU and lived in the exact same building where LS has an apartment. The young woman also lived in the townhouse apartments where JR and CR were living. He tells me that could have been his daughter. Yes, the kids walked around that area alone all of the time, even the girls and, yes, his daughter. Not considered a big deal at all. And as for drinking and drug use, it was rampant, and his daughter was also cited. She has since gotten her MBA at a top program and is now a responsible executive, but those days were not that far back in the past. As a parent, yes, he is hurting for the Spierers and horrified at the possibilities here, but at the same time, he is quick to say, it could just as easily been his daughter and any of her friends. And this was not from a lack of parental warning and admonishments. Lots of lectures, threats, and consequences, but she and her friends still lived that way. </p>

<p>My brother went to a reunion last year, and found a picture of himself making out with a woman. He has no memory at all of the situation or the person. College activities, he says. So, those guys involved with LS that night may well have little memory of what transpired. Or they could have conspired to rid themselves of a compromising situation. There is simply no proof either way. Given the way our system is supposed to work, they are innocent. They are not even suspects at this point, and this is a missing persons case, not a homicide, as there is no concrete evidence that she is not alive even now.</p>