<p>Another two part question.</p>
<p>What year of income do they look at? If my kids start Fall of 2015, are they looking at 2014 income?</p>
<p>Also, do we do the whole process again for the 2nd school year, resubmit FAFSA, redo the EFC using the next year’s income?</p>
<p>I ask this because I am expecting a one-time income spike in 2014 (bonus award). Then my income will drop significantly in 2015 (probably to a level below 2014). Wondering how that works. </p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>In your scenario, 30,000 - 9500 = 20,500 the amount you have to borrow in addition to the direct loan. Some COAs are padded with things that might not actually cost that much. In this case you have to borrow your EFC plus the unmet need.</p>
<p>Yes, for fall 2015 admission fafsa will want 2014 income. Yes, you will do fafsa each year with new numbers. Depending on the circumstances of the spike you can sometimes contact the finaid and an adjustment might be made, but you do after all have the additional money to help pay for college that year if you save it.</p>
<p>Kmanshouse, when you are talking about schools that do not guarantee to meet financial need and do not tend to do so, there are no real guarantees about anything. Thumper can tell you how a small increase in income on the FAFSA can result in a big drop in award at such schools, and how adding another kid or having another kid at school at the same time can result in just a few dollars increase. </p>
<p>If your kids are going to start college the fall of 2015, then the income to be reported would be the 2014 income and your 2014 tax return will be used. Assets, however, as I mentioned before are listed on the actual date the FAFSA is completed, not the year end or beginning date, and that cannot be changed as far as the date goes, once you’ve submitted the FAFSA. For most FAFSA only school, or most schools that do not meet full need, my experience has been that the students get their best need package freshman year, and most schools will try to stick to that award if the financial picture does not change too much, but increases to it can be very dicey. It does not tend to happen. Your spike in 2014 will likely set the tone and amounts for the 4 year aid packages. I am stating this without specific knowledge of the schools, so this is a very generic answer that does not include those schools that do guarantee to meet full need. So, this is a valid point to bring up. If you can get some assurrances in writing from financial aid at the time you decide on a school in a package, it might be helpful, but honestly, I don’t think there is a good chance of getting an increased package commensurate to the drop. It simply is not what I have seen, sadly.</p>
<p>And yes, you reapply each year for financial aid with a new FAFSA. Usually, colleges do try to keep the aid packages level with some more funding requirements from the students. Be aware the prices tend to go up too. </p>
<p>That’s why merit awards are great. If your kid can keep up the grades, most merit awards, and they are so specified will stay the same each year. Many are for all four years.</p>
<p>Such awesome information - thanks. Even though some of it is pretty bad news. We are the poster children for how not to position yourselves for college.</p>
<p>Twins - check
High income - check
Not enough saved - check
Heavy debt that doesn’t count against your income for this purpose - check</p>
<p>Regarding parent loans after Stafford (i.e. the $20,500) annoyingdad mentioned. Is the best option those PLUS loans? I just looked online and they are 7.9% fixed. Not horrible. After that, I suppose it’s just whatever personal loans you can get, or are their other, college specific options?</p>
<p>The Parent Loans are not great in interest rates, given the low interest climat these days, but they offer ease of applying in the privacy of your home, quick answer, easy administrative steps, flexible terms, and insurance if either you or the student passes away. Some go with personal loans first. if you belong to a credit union or can take a loan against assets or home equity and do it in a planned way, that may be the way to go. Not a cut and dry answer here. </p>
<p>Also, it is possible that your student does get into a college does not work the way I described. The expression “YMMV” is quite apt. This is just typical of what I have seen. Your best package is usually what you get when you apply as a freshman.</p>
<p>kmans…</p>
<p>I think you’re going to find that all of this will be for naught unless your kids end up attending a top school that uses CSS Profile.</p>
<p>Up to this point, you’ve indicated that your twins’ stats are more likely suited for less-than-top-schools. Those tend to be FAFSA only schools and they don’t usually give ANY need-based aid to anyone whose EFCs are much beyond Pell…especially if the student is OOS and it’s a state school. </p>
<p>You’ve already indicated that each twin’s EFC will be about $20k. If that goes up or down a bit, you’re not going to see more free money from their schools. </p>
<p>Unless your twins’ stats increase to the point that they’ll be applying to schools that are known for generous need-based aid, you need to expect that you’ll be full pay minus any merit that they can get, minus any Stafford loans that they take, and minus any contribution the boys can make from a summer job.</p>
<p>Since your boys are sophomores, why not try a little experiment. Estimate how much you can pay EACH year for BOTH twins total. If that amount is $24k, then start setting aside $2k per month as if you’re paying that amount. If that is fine, then you’ll have that saved and ready for college. If you find that’s not do-able, then you’ll seek other options.</p>
<p>I agree with Mom2. When you are dealing with schools that do not tend to meet full need, unless your kids is in the top of the students groups there, the chances of such schools meeting EFC are not so good. You can look it up actually, as to what the chances are. The Common Data will tell you under Financial aid what the average aid met for a school is, and how much of that is in grants and the average grant. Will also tell you the average merit award. The FAFSA EFC is really just a chart to indicate PELL grant threshholds and I don’t know a single school that guarantees meet the need just on the EFC for every student.</p>
<p>I agree with mom’s assessment on the colleges we are looking at. Saving $2k/month is hilarious though. One thing I will say, is that the room and board cost isn’t really dollar for dollar EXTRA money. Sure, we have to pay it up front, but once they are gone and we are not feeding them, that will save us a lot of $$. Also, the showers, the lights they leave on, etc, etc, 8 months of them not in the house will allow us to put more in the bank. Anyone have an idea of what % of R&B is saved on that end? I would guess half.</p>
<p>Question on the parent gifting.</p>
<p>If my parents said, we’ll give you $10K (keep it to one kid for right now), does that affect the need calculation to the point it could eat into the Stafford eligibility?</p>
<p>In my prior example - COA = $30,000. EFC = $20,000. Need = $10,000.</p>
<p>If my parents gave us $10,000 for this child, would this essentially wipe out Stafford, or could they still use it?</p>
<p>I hear you. When mine are all home, the electric bill goes up, the gas tank is on E most of the time, we are constantly buying milk and cereal, etc, etc. Also, you can check with your car ins co and see if you get a discount if they are so many miles away. So, yes, there is a savings.</p>
<p>But it costs when they are away too… Fillings fall out, glasses get broken, they get hurt and go to the urgent care not on your insurace provider list. They need this or that, and when you go visit, you want ot have a good time there and treat to a steak dinner, and buy a tee shirt, sweatshirt or tote. Not gonna lie to you. It costs. And things happen at home too. The gremlins know that you are sweating out the dollars ,and “poof” the roof leaks, a tree needs to be cut down, a car needs a major repair or be replaced, etc, etc. </p>
<p>Your kids each can take out $5500 in Stafford loans as long as the officiial cost of attendance less any other aid or scholarship can support it. In other words, if you should be so lucky to get a full ride award that matches the COA, they cannot take out a Stafford. But otherwise, yes, they can. What your parents or you pay towards college does not count as an award. Now if they have defined need that portion of the Stafford can be subsidized, that is no interest till graduation and lower interest rates thereafter, for up to $3500 of the first year allotment. </p>
<p>As Mom2 has said, FAFSA schools won’t be counting the grandparents gifts, and even at PROFILE schools the FAFSA is what is used for federal money eligibility which is what the Stafford is. So they willl almost certainly get the Stafford amounts each year as long as the costs can justify it.</p>
<p>Thanks for that CPT. On the Stafford- how is the unsubsidized portion handled? I was under the impression the Stafford didn’t have payments until graduation and interest was deferred - period. </p>
<p>You are saying only some of it is, and only in the first year?</p>
<p>Edit = I just read unsubsidized is still deferred until graduation, but interest accrues during the period. Ouch.</p>
<p>The way it works for colleges is that when you complete a FAFSA, it basically qualifies you for the PELL, StaffordDirect Student loans, Direct Parent loans (PLUS), Perkins loans, SEOG and workstudy, as well as any state and school funds that maybe available that use FAFSA. I use “you” loosely meaning you and the student. You need an EFC of under about $5000 to qualify for any PELL which is for our students from the lowest income families. Perkin and SEOG go to PELL kids first, as a rule, and not all colleges subscribe to those funds, and there is never enough of that money. PLUS is a loan program run by the feds, and you have to apply for that loan. The benefit being that it is easy to do from home, private and quick, once you have a FAFSA on file. Not an auto accept but if you don’t have outstanding debts on your credit report that 60 or 90 days overdue, it’s pretty much a go. If you are turned down, you kid can get an addition $4K in Staffords if the COA supports it.</p>
<p>The COA of the school is an official one and you and the kid combined cannot borrow or get more than than from the federal funds (PELL excepted). If the COA is $40k and the total EFC for a student is $30K, then his need is defined to be $10K. If he does not get financial aid from the school or other scholarships to reduce that $10K, he can get federal funds through Stafford, with $3500 of it subsidized, and be eligible for work study if the school has the funds and will approve him up to that amount. He can use the $2K of the Staffod that is left, but is unsub towards his need or towards his EFC if the need is met some other way through fin aid or scholarship. If his EFC were $40K, meaning he has zero need, he can still borrow the full $5500 Stafford on an unsub basis and you, the parents can also borrow from PLUS as long as you don’t exceed COA. So the government loans can go toward unmet need or towards EFC, but the Staffords are subsidized only up to $3500 and only if their is need there. That is the case for freshman year, and the amount goes up a bit for future years, another grand for sophomore year, for instance.</p>
<p>The payments for unsub and sub Staffords and PLUS loans can be deferred until 6 months after leaving full time school, but interest accrues as soon as the loan is dispensed for the unsub ones. Yes, ouch. I recommend parents to pay on their PLUS loans as they get them so they can feel the pain and not get over their heads by graduation which happens way to often. Easy to borrow when you don’t feel the pain of repaying and bam, it hit, 4 years later with interest accrued at not an insignifcant rate. </p>
<p>Many parents here feel that the Stafford amounts and possibly the Perkins are the maximum a student should borrow as UGs. Gives them “skin in the game” but doesn’t put them way over, in debt. Also leaves room to borrow for Prof school if that comes up. There are llimits on totals one can have outstanding, but just sticking ot those amounts will keep you okay.</p>
<p>The reality is that the Staffords (and possibly Perkins) are just about all students can borrow on their own. Sometimes a school has its own loan fund and may lend out some money from there or the state has a fund, but those loans are ususally to the parents. The private loans to students are really joikes–they require a coapplicant with credit and the loans will be put on both credit reports and both parites are equally liable. Unless there is a great interest rate involved, it is not advised. The terms are not as flexible and there is usually no life insurance aspect on the loans so they stay there if either party dies. With PLUS if either parent or student dies, the loan is forgiven. Seems like a detail, but it has becme a major issue for some.</p>
<p>What is your estimated EFC per twin? Any privates that tend to meet need on the radar as possibilities?</p>
<p>Have you looked at UW Stevens Point for the conservation twin? </p>
<p>It has a College of Natural Resources and it’s what they’re known for. I see a major in Resource Management Law Enforcement and a minor in Environmental Law Enforcement.</p>
<p>[UWSP</a> | College of Natural Resources - Academics](<a href=“http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/Pages/undergraduate.aspx]UWSP”>Programs - College of Natural Resources | UWSP)</p>
<p>It also participates in MSEP so it looks like tuition/fees/R&B would run around $17,200 per year at the current price. Tuition and fees have been going up a consistent 5% a year in recent years which is better than some states. R&B hasn’t gone up as fast.</p>
<p>[UWSP</a> | Admissions - Tuition, Room & Board](<a href=“http://www.uwsp.edu/admissions/Pages/Affordability/default.aspx]UWSP”>http://www.uwsp.edu/admissions/Pages/Affordability/default.aspx)</p>
<p>Heck, depending on where you work you could move to WI and get in-state rates. :)</p>
<p>So awesome - fantastic stuff. Thank you.</p>
<p>Yes, annoyingdad, we are definitely aware of UWSP. It’s very high on the list of choices for us. I am actually betting our son goes there. He’ll have not much choice if he doesn’t get the in-state tuition at Mississippi State. Right now I think it’s likely going to be one of those two schools, and if no 3.0/26, I’m hoping he likes UWSP, because Im not paying OOS for MSU.</p>
<p>One issue there is he is not the partying type at all. He’s very anti-drug, alcohol, etc, and is a physical specimen. Takes pride in body/health stuff. And I know UWSP is a heavy drinking culture. </p>
<p>Edit - not judging this by any stretch - I did my share in college. Just thinking about my son.</p>
<p>Two follow up questions.</p>
<p>1) What if the EFC is actually higher than the COA? I keep getting $20K per twin in the estimates. And some schools, after award are less than $20K COA. Would this mean my son would just get the $5500 unsub Stafford, and rest on us?</p>
<p>2) On the calculators, some schools show books and “personal” or “transportation” in the COA. Others omit those items. Is there a standard COA measure, or does that vary by school?</p>
<p>Drinking happens at every school and some are heavy drinkers everywhere. But you can also find non-drinkers at every school. Living in a substance free dorm or floor can take care of a lot of that. It has for my kids.</p>
<p><<<drinking happens="" at="" every="" school="" and="" some="" are="" heavy="" drinkers="" everywhere.="" but="" you="" can="" also="" find="" non-drinkers="" school.="" living="" in="" a="" substance="" free="" dorm="" or="" floor="" take="" care="" of="" lot="" that.="" it="" has="" for="" my="" kids.="">>></drinking></p>
<p>Very true - did you send kids to UWSP? I will say driving 4.5 hours up there will be better than 11 hours south to Starkville, MS.</p>
<p>The official COA is a number that the school sends to the government and aid is topped out at that amount. In other words, you cannot borrow more than that amount through PLUS if you are a zero need parent… The sum of your kid’s Stafford Loans and PLUS cannot exceed that number. The combo of the school’s awards and those loans cannot exceed that number. That is the official COA. There can be several official COAs, for commuters and those living on campus and those on offcampus housing but not commuting, for instance.</p>
<p>Your EFC can easily be higher than your COA for any given school. Commute to your local state school or comm college where the COA could be maybe $6K and your EFC can be $90K which means, that according to FAFSA calcutions your family should be able to afford just about any school in the country. But if your kid goes to the CC for $6k, all he and you can borrow from the government with Staffords and PLUS is the $6K. There are some exceptions to that (PELL, for instance) but basically the COA tops off what you can borrow. After all, the loans are for school, not for you to pocket and use to pay for your new roof or Ferrari. . </p>
<p>If your EFC is $20k, and your kid is looking at a school that costs $30k(COA) but the school gives your kid $15K in scholarship money, then your maximum that you and he can borrow if no other awards are in the picture comes to $15K but because you still have $5K of need unmet by the school, the $3500 UNSUB Stafford can come inot play for the kid, or maybe he can ask for work study, up to the $5K need. He can get aid up to the ned level, and the Stafford can be used totally for EFC if there is no need or split between it as needed.</p>
<p>To complicate matters, a lot of schools will present the Stafford, PLUS as their own awards when they are not. The PLUS is not even guaranteed as the parent has to apply for it, and the Staffords are available at every school. The unsub part of the Staffords, true can be considered aid, but it’s not the school’s money–it comes from the government. When awards are made, it is often very confusing to the parent. </p>
<p>You can “beat” the COA, by the way, if you kid is frugal and buys books cheaper than the COA listed amount or lives close enough so the average transportation amount is more than what his costs would be. In future years, when a lot of the kids move off campus, they can really go lower than that number by living in super cheap digs and eating lots of ramen and other food cooked at home rather than eating out. For kids on full scholarships which are based on that COA, they can pocket the money. The only thing that is a rigid number is the tuiion and fees, and even the fees, if they differ by program, can be an average. The room costs are averages, and if a kid gets, say a triple or quad, for less than the average double, he can “beat” that COA. Or he can go over it, but the COA is not increased if that happens, nor is it lowered if you go under it. It is an official Average that is used for aid ceilings.</p>
<p>My daughter did a visit to UWSP but doesn’t attend, but then she’s not into a science area either. Better than driving to or from Marquette, MI in the winter with it’s 100 inches of snow on the ground too. What else is there to do in Marquette in the winter other than drink? J/K 
The UP is a neat place though I’ve never been there in the winter.</p>
<p>Anyone have an idea of what % of R&B is saved on that end? I would guess half.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say half. I don’t think even a quarter. </p>
<p>I think Cpt has 5 boys, so when hers aren’t at home the difference would be huge. lol</p>
<p>I’ve had two boys away at school at the same time. I can’t say that I’ve noticed a huge difference in the home budget. As Cpt states, when kids are away, there are unexpected expenses that come up and you can’t always deal with them in the thrifty way you might at home (when you can shop around for best price, etc). </p>
<p>And, it’s true that when you visit them, you tend to spend a lot on restaurants, rental cars, hotels, etc. And, when they come home, the indulging continues. lol </p>
<p>I just don’t find huge savings in the home budget. The house still needs heating and cooling, and cooking for 2 isn’t that much cheaper than cooking for 4. </p>
<p>And, even if my food budget drops a bit, my boys require larger meal plans and more “off campus” eating budgets. My younger son still eats many meals on campus (big meal plan), but that doesn’t stop him from eating numerous meals off-campus. He claims that he eats about 6 times a day (and he’s thin!)</p>
<p>My point about setting aside $2k a month ($24k per year) was to get you thinking of how much you truly would be able to contribute each year. It’s easy to think, “oh, we can spend X amount per year on college,” but when you divide that by 12 and ask if you can save that much each month, many will look at you like you’re crazy. Even halving that amount will cause some people to choke.</p>
<p>If you have two kids going away to college without significant need-based aid and without significant merit based aid (which sounds like your situation), I don’t see how you’re not going to have pay at least $40k per year. If you can’t save $24k per year now, then that amount just doesn’t seem to be affordable.</p>
<p>I think I indulge the boys when they are all home too. If I had to crack the whip and tighten the belt, I’m sure I could keep the cost down. But there were times I thought about buying a cow. The milk and OJ disappear, but better that than beer and liquor.</p>
<p>OP with a $20K EFC per kid, the only ways to “beat” those numbers are to 1) Find a school with a sticker price below that–commuting to a a state school for example 2) Getting a merit award that exceeds that.</p>
<p>Most financial aid packages are highly likely to just incorporate the Stafford into them as well as any PELL. Maybe stick in some work study which then uses up the kid’s time he might have used to work to pay off the EFC. Maybe a small grant. That is typical of schools that do not tend to meet need.</p>