<p>@clandarkfire Presumably, they will also get accommodations in college if warranted. So in that regard your argument is off.</p>
<p>Additionally, I can guarantee that if you had dyslexia or something of the like, you wouldn’t think it unfair for you to receive extra time. You are very lucky that you have no learning disabilities, however, a number of kids aren’t quite as fortunate as you. Without ever having been in their shoes, I don’t think you can properly assess the situation from their perspective. I can advocate for the rights of bullied teenage homosexuals and say I have the utmost sympathy for them. However, never having been in their shoes, I don’t have the empathy necessary to really comprehend everything from their side of the table. Similarly, it is impossible for you to truly know what it is like to have a LD or similar disability and have to go through life with it. You will never struggle to read words correctly on a page, or try to focus when your brain is literally not allowing you to, or try to take a test when you are caught up with tics or OCD rituals and your body is basically physically incapable of stopping. You will never feel the overwhelming crushed and suffocating feeling of extreme anxiety, nor will you ever have to struggle to finish a test and hand it in half-completed while knowing that you had the knowledge to finish it correctly had you the ability to complete it in time. I will never experience quite a few of those, so I can’t speak to all of them, but as for the ones I have experienced, I know that people not affected by them cannot fully grasp what it is like.</p>
<p>@Born2Dance94 - When I was in fifth grade, I was a bit more fidgety than most kids, and had slightly lower grades. Our family doctor said I must have ADHD and offered a prescription; my mom decided it was a load of crap and I took nothing.
Come high school I buckled up and it’s worked out fine for me.
This is not to say that legitimate disorders that require extra time don’t exist - I just think the problem is often exaggerated. </p>
<p>Also, my issue is that since it’s not flagged, colleges aren’t counting on them being given special accommodations which, if they do have a disorder, they may well need.
I’d wager significantly fewer students would take the SAT with extra time if it were flagged by the CB and the colleges notified.</p>
<p>@clandarkfire After being accepted to a school, you can then disclose any quote-unquote “issues,” and see what accommodations they are willing to give you. So the schools decide what they think is appropriate, but at least the kids get the benefit of the doubt in the admissions process and aren’t subconsciously discriminated against. Then, when they hear back what the schools will offer them, they can decide which resources would work best for them and can choose a school accordingly. Therefore, a college is not forced to give a child anything, nor is the child forced into making a decision.</p>
<p>You make a fair point in that I’m not capable of truly understanding those scenarios. It’s hard for me to imagine them, so I’m naturally skeptical about how harmful they can be. Nonetheless, I think a note from the CB that the tests were taken with extra time would be appropriate. While one can easily argue that adcoms may be unconsciously biased against people with learning disabilities, one can just as easily argue that they are being “tricked” into admitting students that they wouldn’t otherwise admit - not necessarily because they’re biased against them, but because they simply lack the necessary resources to accommodate them. I suppose public schools might not be allowed to decide not to admit someone based on the fact that he or she had an LD, but that wouldn’t apply to private schools, which make up the majority of uber-selective schools.</p>
<p>Busdriver’s kid refused the extra time despite having a mild learning disability. So this is not true. </p>
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<p>So should we give homosexuals a leg up in the admissions process? Perhaps they don’t get along as well with teachers because of discrimination and thus get lower grades. Or more likely, leadership positions may be harder to get because it is harder to be popular with peers. Is it unethical to correct for such factors? If you are correcting for such factors, is it unethical to mention to the admissions staff that you have corrected for such factors?</p>
<p>Some of these buzzwords like “discrimination” and “bias” are overly simplistic, blunt instruments in terms of being descriptors because their meanings are so broad. This is a complex issue.</p>
<p>Incidentally, there is an interesting and related controversy in the special olympics. There is an paralympic sprinter with no lower legs who is now approaching (able-bodied) olympic sprint times with the help of special prosthetic running limbs. It’s possible he may be able to qualify for the next olympics. People have speculated that the trajectory of his times will decrease until it goes below olympic winning times. So the question now becomes is it unfair to let him compete in the able-bodied olympics? Are the limbs actually and advantage? Or is it discrimination against the disabled to not let him run with him.</p>
<p>Not every accommodation is the same and simply flagging them without explaining the accommodation may or may not be fair.</p>
<p>I know of someone who had someone read him the test AND had someone write the answers for him because of an ld. That’s a pretty huge accommodation. I also know of someone who had a physical disability and could not get through the whole test without getting sick to their stomach. The College Board refused to give them an accommodation and they ended up throwing up in the middle of an exam. (Yup, I’m sure that was plenty distracting to all the other test-takers.) The CB then agreed to give the student one accommodation: whenever the student got sick, he could get stop the clock, throw up and continue the testing. It was the only way the student could get through the exam but there was no advantage. As a matter of fact, having to interrupt the test suddenly then return to the seat to find his place was a major time-waster. </p>
<p>I also remember one of my kids broke an arm just before a standardized test. Kiddo got the ‘accommodation’ of having an adult bubble in the answers. Again, I’m not sure it conferred an advantage over other kids but, obviously, it was the only way to complete the exam.</p>
<p>I think that if giving extra time would improve a score, such as on ACT science, this validates what many say is the uselessness of the tests to start. While getting a 1600 m + cr is rare and impressive, under timed conditions, IMO, this really does not mean that the student is inherently brighter, smarter, more talented oe what have you, than some other students who might, heaven forbid, get 1300.</p>
<p>The Act and Sat are not aptitude tests. This is openly admitted by the testing agencies. </p>
<p>I am very familiar with both of these tests. If you have not studied certain of the math or grammar rules, no amount of innate intelligence will fix that. ACT reading is basically speed reading. This may be good to see if you will be able to speed readin all those college courses which require a book a week but if you are a science type, speed reading of an article on medicine or chemistry might not be good or necessary. ACT science, IMO, has little todo with science, but a lot to do with speed reading. One child may find ACT reading difficult but not so with SAT. </p>
<p>Also, if someone could “guess and check” a math problem (as pointed out above) as opposed to knowing or remembering the rule, I could not say that the guessed was less qualified, really. To see and derive the rule by guess and check is a good way of figuring out this type of thing.</p>
<p>My child was in special education services since age 3. I always fought against the school giving her extended time for standardized testing since that would invalidate the very standardization which is the whole point of such a test! The world is simply NOT going to change to accommodate her–she has to fight to raise her ability and coping mechanisms to a level where accommodations are not needed. Also, after a certain age, giving extended time seems unsustainable. In the elementary school environment, perhaps the student can miss recess or part of lunch to finish up a test. But in high school the day is packed, the child has different teachers for every subject, and each teacher sees hundreds of students a day. Would she have to keep missing the subsequent class to finish up tests from the previous class? Also, if my child wants to participate in any after-school activities, that would remove the possibility of staying late to finish testing. Frankly, I also can’t imagine how that would work in a college situation either. If she got extended time for her assignments, wouldn’t it become one big overlapping mess of deadlines running into each other? My opinion is either she can cope with college more or less “as is,” or she can’t and needs to make alternate plans.</p>
<p>Note I am discussing a cognitive disability in the framework of performing a cognitive activity–college studies. IMO, this is a different discussion from that of a student who needs wheelchair ramps or a peanut-free dorm to alow him to engage in a cognitive task.</p>
<p>Analogy: If you are mildly farsighted you can probably read materials without the accomodation of glasses, though it might take you a bit longer to do so. That is ones choice. If a person is significantly farsighted, though, they most likely need the accomodation of glasses or enlarged pront in order to be able to read materials and take a test on the same level playing field as the students that don’t need glasses.</p>
<p>Let me tell you how easy those extensive and expensive battery of tests are to game, even without parental coaching. If a child wants a particular diagnosis (and is bright enough to do a little research)…it’s really easy.</p>
<p>Let me tell you that there are reliability and validity measures being included in assessments, and that it isnt as “easy” as you think for qualified examiners to be “duped” or for the tests to be “gamed”. The sad part is that there are some whose ethics may be compromised by the almighty dollar and may not perform a completely independent, unbiased evaluation.</p>
<p>my sentiment exactly. I already detailed on the first page of this thread our decision to not let my son have IEP plan and never request accommodations.</p>
<p>In addition, while the main reason to discontinue use of ADHD drugs was the side effects, another reason was that neither I nor my son felt like it was sustainable to continue taking the ADHD drugs throughout his entire life. In fact, I had to make sure he takes the drugs. Sometimes I found the medicine thrown away in the garbage or in his pockets. He definitely did not like taking the medicine.</p>
<p>I know he will never become elite college material, but considering the circumstances he is doing great at school.</p>
<p>My feeling is that having cognitive disability is no different from having low IQ. In both cases a child faces obstacles. I don’t know what is going on in other schools, but in my children school (both at middle and high school level), there are teachers available before and after school to help with the homework, the assignments are posted on schoology (used to be blackboard), etc. It is up to a child and his or her parents to take advantage of those. </p>
<p>One more thing I want to mention is that when my son was in Kindergarten the school wanted him to take advantage of Title I program. I refused to sign the paperwork. Instead, every evening I “homeschooled” my son after I came home from work. I did it until about 6th grade. Now (almost) every evening we go over the schedule and make sure he did not forget to do his all assigned work (and the work is in his backback). While we are not there yet, he is getting better with coping mechanisms.</p>
<p>Edited to add: Going through all of this, I completely understand the parents of ADHD children who make the decision to take advantage of accommodations. However, I feel that having accommodations in high school and then in college is just delaying the need to start copying with ADHD on your own. I don’t care what ADA says, in real life nobody is going to extend the deadline or tolerate lack of attention to detail because my son has ADHD.</p>
<p>I find it odd how much we take for granted that the circumstances of k-12 and college are directly relatable to the “adult” world. I received extensive disability accommodation in college and needed it DESPERATELY, but I am six months out of college now and would no longer even qualify as disabled. It was JUST school I couldn’t do. There has not been a single thing in the work world or my personal life since graduation that I have not been able to do without accommodation. Even though the skills from school to work are transferrable, I think the two are a lot more different than people realize.</p>
<p>Also worth pointing out that I was completely unable to get any accommodation at all on the ACT, even for a physical disability that renders me unable to write by hand for any extended period of time because of severe pain and lack of motor control from a nerve abnormality. This was heavily documented by a qualified neurologist and I had years of testing and previous accommodation to back up my request. Those accommodations are NOT easy to get, it’s not nearly as simple as just saying, “hey, I have a disability, hook me up!” and getting whatever you want, and anybody that doesn’t understand that should probably excuse themselves from this discussion.</p>
<p>^Your experience is different from experience of those who have ADHD. Having hard time to concentrate will have negative effect both at school and at work.</p>
<p>That is because the ACT was not a party to the Breimhorst settlement. </p>
<p>The lack of accommodations for the ACT actually brings up an important question … if accommodations are so important, why have they not been demanded in the fly-over country? The ACT organization, mostly based on its ability to convince states its test should be mandatory, has visibly be spared the extra burden of providing a special administration. Was the agreement with the College Board sufficient? What happened to the suggestion that the settlement was the start of a comprehensive policy? </p>
<p>Should we conclude that there is a geographical distribution in learning disabilities? Or is the distribution based on the SES and the ability to be tested?</p>
<p>My son, high IQ, ADHD inattentive, processing speed difficulty, has had more psycho-ed testing done that I care to admit. He was DENIED extra time on SAT, APPROVED for extra time on ACT. He does use extra time at school on all essay tests, but rarely on math problem sets.</p>
<p>The packages sent to each ACT and College Board measured 3 inches high. Forget just getting approved, the task of applying only was daunting. It is not something we decided to do an a whim.</p>
<p>We have encouraged use of the extended time. His frustration level with comprehending the material, leading the class discussions and helping classmates grasp the subject while doing worse on tests then said classmates rocked his confidence to the core. As a parent, I was more concerned with the tween years and keeping him emotionally stable, not in getting him into an Ivy. </p>
<p>And I am all full flagging IF the flagging is accompanied by the list of the reason and details. I have 2 ADHD (inattentive) kids - believe me each is very different. Each has additional LDs. I would never want each of them to have simply ADHD as a reason.</p>
<p>No, Lerkin, it’s not. I have ADHD, ASD, and dyscalculia, too-- and I work with financial reporting so the latter of those is really quite something. Still no problems whatsoever. Accommodations are NOT a substitute for developing coping skills, and even with accomodations nobody can succeed without developing those coping skills, in school or in life. It’s not one or the other. It’s a matter of choosing the right profession and the right job and developing those skills, but being able to do those things and having accommodations in school are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Personally, if I’d just never been able to go to college or finish high school because I couldn’t get accommodations, I don’t think I’d have been better prepared for the workplace than I am now. Those accommodations are scaffolding. I do not understand one iota people who say they are against accommodations because the real world doesn’t accommodate. That implies a fundamental lack of understanding about what accommodations are and what they are for.</p>