Family obsessed with prestige

Parents Forum
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<p>I can identify with your situation. I have a daughter (goaliegirl) whose future is very promising (she has the tools necessary to achieve her goals) and productive, but not necessarily lucrative (I don’t measure my children by the size of their wallets). </p>

<p>I have a son who is a high-functioning autistic (Aspergers) who struggles with many self-management issues who through a lot of background support (with personal management issues) maintains a full-time job as a clerk in a grocery store. We hope to develop a living situation whereby he can function semi-autonomously as an adult, but realize that he will have many struggles through his lifetime. </p>

<p>Goaliegirl has always been aware of her brother’s disability and acknowledges that we won’t be around forever to look after him. She feels a sense of personal responsibility towards him, but we’ve made it entirely clear to her that she is to lead her life without feeling that she has to be physically tied to his existence. We will do our best to set him up in that sense and hopefully leave behind enough assets to keep him from becoming destitute. To that end, she understands that we would expect her to manage these assets to his benefit (make sure he has a roof, access to healthcare, etc.), but by no means is she responsible for his daily life.</p>

<p>We brought our children into the world. We try to do as much as we can to make them as productive and (as a result) happy as we can. We do expect her to be concerned with her brother’s existence, contribute to it as asked, but not be responsible for it nor sacrifice her life in optimizing his existence.</p>

<p>You sound like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders and no child should be in that position. And while your parents mean well, (and I think you understand this) they do not seem to understand the realities of the college world you face and what challenges you may face in helping the family. They are scared (although they may not say this) for the future your siblings face and see your promising future as a solution. Unfortunately, they have been a bit ham-handed in trying to integrate your help into their (your siblings) future.</p>

<p>Trying to diffuse the situation, I would first try to get your parents to try to focus in on the parts of the situation where you all share objectives - your siblings DO need a long-term care plan if they are truly disabled (unable to provide for their own care - you didn’t clarify the degree of their disability). First, if they truly are incapable of earning enough money to support themselves (unlike my son who makes a marginal living), they will be entitled to governmental support. Assuming these siblings are school-aged, a transition plan (to adult living) should be a part of their IEP (individualized education plan - a federal requirement for all disabled children in schools) as they progress through their teenaged years. These IEP plans should be putting your parents in touch with the various social service agencies to assist in transitional planning for your siblings future. If this isn’t happening, you need to get them talking to higher up school administration officials or better yet an outside social service agency.</p>

<p>Once this issue - how your siblings basic care is provided (not by you, but through governmental assistance) - is addressed, you can turn to how you might be best positioned to help. And while their goal for you to be come the best (fill in your profession here) you can be is laudable, they need to be educated of the risks to your overall success that are involved with taking on high amounts of debt AND having to work while in highly competitive schools. They are seeing only the most optimistic outcome (graduating high in your class, helping in grad school applications), while seeming to be unaware of the many ways for this strategy to fail.</p>

<p>First, they need to know that in today’s credit market, you will most likely not qualify for loans above the guaranteed $5500 in Staffords (if you have a high EFC) given your description that they are just getting by. You might see if you can get a local college financial aid officer to assist you in explaining what parental FICO scores and asset requirements are typical of students who take on additional debt.</p>

<p>Second, if their idea is for you to work more to afford the higher cost prestigous college, this may also defeat the plan (graduating with higher GPA to help with grad school admissions or even job placement). You might find a few news story links around here that show how lesser Ivy grads struggle in this job market. One thing that is certain - the top graduates from all schools get good opportunities (jobs, grad admissions), while the further you fall down the class rank, the higher your risk for poor outcomes (unemployment, no grad school).</p>

<p>If your family is truly struggling financially (no idea here from your post) and would qualify for a full-ride at a top college, there is no harm in putting in a application or 2. </p>

<p>More importantly, you need to stress the ability to have different options if admissions decisions and/or financial aid packages don’t turn out as expected. That means applying to your local state U (if commutable, you can reduce costs and eliminate loan risks) as well as those top-20 schools.</p>

<p>This will give you the opportunity to compare cost versus reward on different options. If the $120K + debt only yields your $25K more per year while exposing the whole enterprise to undue risk (what if your bank cuts off your credit during your Junior year?), is the extra money (a lot less after making loan payments!) going to make a real difference in your siblings lives even if you could give it all to them?</p>

<p>And speaking of giving it all to them, providing financial support to disabled family members can have a counterproductive effect on their government assistance. To the extent that family provides moneys to pay for assisted living for the diabled, the government subtracts that amount on nearly a 1 to 1 basis. It is truly a losing battle unless you can fully support their needs in a better situation.</p>

<p>So as noble as the idea of supporting your disable siblings may be, it may not even be practical given the extreme cost and the punishing disincentives in the system.</p>

<p>I hope I haven’t overwhelmed you with this explaination, but understand that while the burden may seem overwhelming right now, you can help your parents to understand what is a practical way to achieve the family objectives with the priorities going to getting a workable solution first before setting out to swing for the fences.</p>

<p>Wishing you peace.</p>

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<p>OP, your stats sound as if you may qualify for serious merit aid, especially at private schools that are just below HYP level–places like Emory, Tulane, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Washington U/ St. Louis, etc. They ought to be prestigious enough for any parents and certainly will give you a good enough education to get you to the next step along your way. If your parents don’t have the resources to contribute to your education, then you may very well qualify for need-based aid as well, and should apply to the Ivies and similar.</p>

<p>Obviously if you go this route you also want to apply to one or more academic and financial safeties. But I’m not sure community college + two years, though it’s financially a great deal, is really a fulfilling, intellectually challenging option for very high-achieving students. You’d be better off in the honors program at your state flagship.</p>

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<p>Do you know if your parents have any assets - such as savings, property, home with lots of equity? I don’t mean to stereotype, but it sounds like your parents are foreign-born, and sometimes immigrants are fab savers even if they don’t earn much money. If that is the case with your parents, you may not qualify for a lot of aid even at top schools because they will expect your parents to dip into their assets.</p>

<p>But, if that is not the case, then your best strategy is a four step one…</p>

<p>1) Apply to some top schools that give fab aid with NO or very small loans - some ivies, Stanford, Vandy, etc.</p>

<p>2) Apply to some matches that have BIG competitive full-ride merit scholarships - you might get one. (You can’t depend on these, so, you have to include step #3 & #4)</p>

<p>3) Apply to some financial safety schools that will give you ASSURED HUGE merit for your stats. Avoid those that do not have ASSURED merit… Don’t waste your time, those won’t be financial safeties for you.</p>

<p>4) Apply to a state school that you could commute to, if necessary.</p>

<p>If your family’s EFC is low enough for you to qualify for Pell and other fed aid (and maybe some state aid, depending on your state), then the above strategy should provide enough money for you to go to school.</p>

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<p>Not the point of your thread, but how is it they can’t support any of your college yet they were able to support your equestrian activities which you said were a major part of your life? It’s an extremely expensive sport, even with just leasing a horse (heck even borrow a horse and just taking lessons). </p>

<p>It seems like there might be much more to the story here than is stated. The current version is way to black and white.</p>

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<p>I seriously don’t your parents intend to “mooch” of you.</p>

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<p>starbright - I was wondering about the equestrian activities myself, until I remembered that lots of autistic children are reported to benefit from horseback riding as a therapy, and I know several families of modest means who take their autistic child to a program once a week or once a month for equestrian therapy, and bring the non-disabled siblings along both because once the family has committed to this, the additional expense is not that overwhelming, and because the presence of an autistic sibling generally locks other children out of expensive or time-consuming EC pursuits (and even mundane pursuits such as play dates, restaurant dinners and family vacations, or family celebrations) and the parents wanted the non-autistic sibling to have at least some benefit from growing up in this type of family. I am guessing that OP went along as a sibling who also got involved? </p>

<p>I somehow doubt that the parents would have left the autistic child at home to involve the non-disabled sibling in equestrian pursuits, knowing what I do about our types of families.</p>

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<p>If you don’t qualify for finaid (which sounds like a likely case), but the parents will not support you financially in college, go for the full ride options you will have as an NMF.</p>

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<p>It needs to be determined what the finances are for this family. If they are middle-class or higher, he may not qualify for the aid he needs at even the best schools. </p>

<p>the equestrian activities do suggest that the family isn’t poor.</p>

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<p>I agree- the poster said his parents are “unable” to support his college costs. However that inability might be out of choice, rather than lack of financial resources. </p>

<p>The equestrian hobby is, as explained above, very expensive. I agree this is a red flag that may indicate that the family has plenty of money or assets, but no desire to spend their money on college. Otherwise, OP would be eligible for top Ivy full aid, and with his/her stats.</p>

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<p>Thank for all the responses.</p>

<p>My family’s EFC is ~1k. No assets.</p>

<p>With equestrian activities, a friend of the family owns a few horses that I regularly ride, have shown for them, etc, and I also teach lessons every now and then to kids. It’s an extremely fortunate situation that doesn’t require any cost except for the initial purchase of my boots. No leasing, no owning.</p>

<p>I work part-time and do have an income. Most of it is being saved.</p>

<p>To be clear, I realize my sister’s learning disability is not something that could prevent her from obtaining a degree and being very successful. I also do not consider my family potential “moochers”. Once I’m able to, I’d love to help them out. I just think they’re a bit frantic right now and not in the right place to think as clearly as I’d hope. Sorry if my post was misleading, confusing, or anything of that nature.</p>

<p>I am going to apply to schools that are prestigious and have huge endowments/good FA, but I’m not banking on acceptance.</p>

<p>If I missed anything, sorry. Lots of replies-- thanks for everyone’s input.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the clarification Sorrel. You have very decent chances at admissions and excellent FA at the top generous schools–good luck. You are wise to be considering the possibility of other scenarios, too.</p>

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<p>Often your state flagship is the best way to make connections and can open lots of doors if you plan to stay in state after graduation. This is true even if your state’s flagship isn’t highly rated. With your stats, if your state flagship gives merit aid, you’d probably have a great shot at getting a great package.</p>

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<p>I send you a hug. A few more things that might help:</p>

<p>1). Understand that your parents are loaded with worries and you are their shining star. Their dreams for you may not be realistic but may be needed at this time. </p>

<p>2) It’s dumb to argue about where you will go to college before April 1 of your senior year. A good way to avoid arguments is this: Mom picks a college. Dad picks a college, you pick two. Do all four applications to the best of your ability. After those four are done, consider whether or not you want to do more. Do not argue merits of any until you have in hand the acceptance and the fin aid package. </p>

<p>3) For you to apply to a highly selective school, you will need two or three SAT II subject tests. You can sign up now for testing in June. Once you get SAT II scores and SAT scores in hand, you can ask your parents to help research colleges that have students in your score range. Do your best on these tests. You may surprise yourself. </p>

<p>4) Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. One of my S was accepted to Dartmouth and they have been very generous to him. He is getting an excellent education and while it is still a scramble for us, it has been worthwhile. So, swing for the fences and hope you hit a home run. Meanwhile, keep a shrewd eye out for your other options. </p>

<p>5) Please read “Emotional Blackmail” and “Toxic Parents” by Susan Forward. These are quick reads. She does a great job of helping the reader see the dynamics of relationships and how we can set boundaries so that we don’t feel like a doormat – and we don’t feel traitorous either. </p>

<p>You sound like a great kid. Between family pressures and the limited freedoms of high school, you may feel like exploding or running away through out the next 20 months. Please know that THIS is the most stressful time in many people’s lives. Many, many people enjoy college MUCH more than high school. Hang in there.</p>

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<p>I like goaliedad’s advice.</p>

<p>You’ll probably be a NMSF, so take a good look at the thread on schools with strong aid for NMSF, and at the free ride thread. Given your EFC, a school like Stanford might also end up being extremely economical – though of course you can’t assume you’ll get admitted. </p>

<p>Your idea of getting through undergrad with minimal debt is excellent given your graduate school plans – my guess is that you will have a number of full-ride options available if you’re NMSF and willing to go to school anywhere in the country. The horse thing may be a little more complicated, but even around here, near a state flagship university, there are people who own horses that look for experienced riders to exercise them. </p>

<p>I have a cousin who is severely mentally ■■■■■■■■, and it was clear to his siblings from the time they were teenagers that at the point that their parents were no longer alive or able to care for him, that one of the siblings would need to become his guardian. They all contribute towards the cost of his care, and he does get Social Security – disability, I think? I hope your family has investigated those options for your brother, because I think that there is some requirement that application be made before the child hits a certain age. (Not at all sure of the details on this, though).</p>

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<p>I also had an uncle with Down’s syndrome. By all means the family should check into Social Security and for state support programs that may be available. Many programs have significant waiting lists or documentation requirements but starting the process now could lead to some real financial or logistical support for the family. </p>

<p>Our state has several programs for “sheltered workshop” work – for instance, my uncle did work folding laundry. He loved his job. It gave some important structure to his day. As he went through the program, it turned out that he had far more abilities than the family realized.</p>

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<p>Here’s a suggestion to look at: University of Oklahoma gives generous aid to National Merit students, and it has a student equestrian club.</p>

<p>Also, not all selective schools require SAT II scores. My daughter applied to 13 schools (there are also application fee waivers available from your hs guidance counselor if you qualify) and only one required SAT II scores. We are from the midwest and the ACT with writing was an alternative test in many cases.</p>

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<p>Sorrel, First let me congratulate you on your maturity and wisdom, it will serve you well your entire life.</p>

<p>A phrase that gets shared a lot here at CC is “Love thy Safety.” For you, that will include financial safeties. Yes, it makes the process more complicated but it’s well worth it when you find yourself choices you can afford. Hopefully those choices will include your reaches and matches, but even if they don’t, loving thy safety means you have a sure thing that you are excited about. </p>

<p>My son is attending Northeastern in the fall on a National Merit Finalist Scholarship, which covers tuition. They also have an award that covers tuition, room and board. As has been said, check out the National Merit schools. My son wound up having serveral really good choices that were affordable, including our state’s flagship, an OOS public, and several privates. Not all colleges came through with the $$$ but enough did. </p>

<p>I wish you the best of luck, although I don’t think you need it.</p>

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<p>The following will be kept current as long as I am around on CC, though I can’t promise that after this summer.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I think, but of course, I don’t know, there is a chance that your parents might mellow out about the whole Ivy-or-bust thing as the college process moves along, only because through my observation it seems that’s the trend most parents tend to take. Many parents don’t realize how exponentially harder it is to get into these places than it used to be due to the mega-increase in competition, how many completely qualified kids get turned down every year, and how astronomically more expensive it is to attend them.</p>

<p>So while it may not be real advice, I guess I would suggest to you to not worry an exorbitant amount about it now. Apply to where you want to apply, apply to where your parents want you to apply, make sure you apply to a few places you will definitely be able to afford, make sure you apply to a few places you will definitely get into, and once all the dust has cleared you can see how the situation looks.</p>

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<p>I work part-time and do have an income. Most of it is being saved.</p>

<p>If you have any big purchases to make before college (laptop, etc), I suggest you do so before you file your FAFSA. Your savings/income could hurt your EFC.</p>

<p>I am going to apply to schools that are prestigious and have huge endowments/good FA, but I’m not banking on acceptance.</p>

<p>That should be one part of your strategy. You also need to include financial safety schools as I mentioned earlier.</p>

<p>What state are you in?</p>